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What a sad and yet compelling film. I thought that I knew how to fiddle with carburetors but that report has made me think that I don't. That said, the aspect of float chamber gasket thickness is a very basic one. Was there ever any legal action as a result of the failures noted by BBMF ?

Nice pictures MarkV, thanks for posting those. I'd love a set of those inter-war overalls. This site shows how the area codes were allocated :- http://homepages.cwi.nl/~dik/english/reg/GB/table.html It may also interest you to look up The Kithead Trust. They hold many old records but presumably for Ministry contracts there is little further information. The fact that Middlesex was used is not surprising because in those L.C.C. (London County Council) days, large parts of what we now regard as London still belonged to their proper counties. By the way, a list of Registration and County letters is to be found in the back of old AA members handbooks. That's where I learned them from as a kid.

I'm afraid that I don't have much info on armour, whether wheeled or tracked. I have nothing more specific than Hodges' 'mid 1920s' for the change from 'T' to 'F' for armoured cars with the suggestion that this coincided with 'D' for Dragons. The use of 'F' for armoured and Scout Cars appears to have continued through the 1930s and during WW2 I have no reference sources which make it clear whether the post WW1 system replaced the earlier scheme in its entirety (as happened post-WW2) or indeed anything to confirm whether Hodges is correct. Are these 'M' plated cars of post-WW1 manufacture ? I think that we can safely assume that there were few if any RASC armoured cars. Hodges refers to the Chief Inspector of Armaments but makes no reference to the RAOC who seem to have had their own scheme 'pre-war' according to Vanderveen. Did the RAOC take on responsibilites from the 'Armaments Inspectorate' at some point resulting in a change that my limited literature doesn't refer to ? As far as I can see, all classes of vehicles seem to have had Middlesex plates, even those vehicles which I know to have been delivered to Chilwell (I bet there were exceptions though !) In the begining, these seem to have been 1920s two-digit prefixes e.g. 'HX' but later were three-letter plates with the second letter 'M' such as 'HMC' etc., again a Middlesex C.C. allocation. The earliest datable sources that I have turned up with a quick look are motorcycles with 'MT' registrations and census numbers around 19000 - 20000 and these date from 1928.

I didn't mean to give the impression that I thought those early details had been lost, I simply had in mind the details given by Bart Vanderveen in his preface to the British section of the old 'Observer's Fighting Vehicles Directory' regarding the transfer of assets from RASC to RAOC. There are times when I think that I can understand the system of RASC and RAOC numbering but sometimes it seems to cloud the issue. Vanderveen says broadly that pre-war the RASC as the biggest user were allocated most vehicles and the RAOC were only responsible for 'front line' (including AFVs but not exclusively). He goes on to say that from 1942 which coincided with the formation of REME that all 'RASC' vehicles were included within the 'B' vehicle classifications (under Ordnance). It would therefore seem that it was at this point necessary to transfer quantities of RASC records to RAOC and presumably there must have been decisions taken as to what was still 'current' and therefore needed handing over. My reading of the November 1944 Chilwell list suggests to me that unless there were large gaps, only the numbers up to 5208 had been issued by the time the 1933 system came into use. 5209 was issued to contract V3621 for Austin cars with Catalogue Reference 46 which would be the 46th contract issued to Austins. Contract V2980 Cat. Ref. 45 commenced M37273 which I would take to indicate that V3621 was also a late 1930s contract and that they were filling in 'gaps' I cannot imagine that numbers were re-used. Some of the Wartime impressed purchases commenced much earlier than 150001, certainly for motorcycles. I have a picture of an obviously civilian late 1930s AJS bearing C63102 in service with the BEF in May 1940. It would be nice to find a picture of a vehicle carrying an 'impressed' number prior to 33000 to see if it was 1920s or 1930s in origin. I'll start searching !

There does indeed seem to have been an 'intermediate' numbering system between the WW1 series and the 1930s numbers which ran up until WW2. None of my sources go back as far as WW1 but this is what I can find on inter-war numbers:- Peter Hodges in "British Military Markings 1939 - 1945" states the following :- "Before the Second World War, all vehicles carried several other marks which included : a) A civilian-style registration plate at front and rear. b) A WD number and prefix classification letter. c) An abbreviation of the title of the unit to which the vehicle belonged. d) A letter 'B' in the case of non-combatant wheeled vehicles. e) A letter 'A' for all the combat vehicles including Scout and Armoured cars. f) A maximum speed disc on the rear of 'B' vehicles only. All these were lettered or numbered in white, except for the 'A' or 'B' marks which were in red. The WD classification letters for 'B' vehicles were : A Ambulances M Motor Cars C Motor Cycles V Vans H Wheeled Tractors X Trailers L Lorries Z Trucks The numbers followed a sequence which had started with 1 in 1920, and were allocated by the RASC Stores Depot. During the 1930s, a scheme was instituted where the first two numbers indicated the year of entry into service but this does not seem to have survived for long. No doubt it was given up in the enormous wartime expansion. Armoured vehicles had a separate numbering system controlled by the Chief Inspector of Armaments, which started in 1919 with 1. At first all AFVs, whether tracked or otherwise, were given the prefix letter 'T' but in the mid 1920s armoured cars were changed to 'F' and tracked towing vehicles to 'D' - the latter because of the 'Dragon' tractors then in vogue." In terms of 'softskins' reference to the "Allocation by Central Census Tanks and Vehicles of 'B' Vehicle WD Numbers" as reprinted by Rob van Meel shows numbers 1 to 5208 as "impressed" but I wonder if this was simply shown because Chilwell had no current records as old as the early 1920s by the time the list was compiled in 1944 and so any ex-RASC vehicles of this age had to be dealt with on an individual basis, as with the early-war impressed vehicles. There are also various early numbers marked as 'not taken up' or which were clearly filled in at a later date and given for instance to the Canadians. 28514 - 33299 were 'not taken up' and the first semblance of order comes with L33000 which was for Morris Commercial 30cwt 6x4 GS lorries. Based on some number crunching by Jan Vandevelde, it would seem that the year prefixes continued until late 1939 at which time the RASC seem to have started using previously unissued numbers commencing 61000 for motorcycles and 150001 for other vehicles. The RAOC at this point look to have started a separate sequence at 4100001. The split system seems to have continued until early 1942 when it appears to have been combined. The Chilwell list gives a slightly misleading impression of consecutive order as, for instance, 34999 is followed by 35000 but the number which actually followed was 341000 (The same BSA v-twin contract C7090 was from C(34)963 - C(34)1089) which rather confirm that the first two ciphers were a year prefix rather than part of a consecutive numbering system and this is backed up by my examination of the Norton factory ledgers which show a clear year relationship between production dates and contract census number allocation. None of this of course provides very much help with the Rolls Royce Armoured Cars but might shed some light on the softskin vehicles post WW1

I really don't think that this fascinating and well thought out question belongs in the "I may be stupid" section ! The "new" census number system seems to have commenced in 1933 but I can see no reference in the Chilwell B vehicle lists to vehicles already in service receiving numbers under the new system. Did they retain their existing numbers ? ...and if anyone can explain the later Interwar system for Egypt with western and arabic characters separated by a 'WD' then I'd be fascinated to know.

There's a nice but wrongly captioned picture of an ML on the Canadian archives. Brigade Sergeant-Major R.M. Cooper of the 9th Canadian Infantry Brigade, who rides a Norton WD16H motorcycle, Carpiquet, France, 12 July 1944

I don't think that it's 'one of ours' - I came up with my ID based on the peculiar front engine plates and the cut-off drive to the dynamo which would have been there (and it isn't a Velocette !). The crudely applied stars only seem to have been commonly applied by the British and Canadians to captured or requisitioned machines.

This is a well put together book which gives a good overview on the evoloution of uniforms and some other equipment from pre-war SD to late BD. I'm a bit concerned to see what they ask for the hardback now but the paperback is a good price. http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_ss_b/026-4873427-2354050?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=The+World+War+II+Tommy%3A+British+Army+Uniforms+European+Theatre+1939-45+&x=14&y=17 A bit of a shame that they weren't quite so fussy to get the BSA M20s in period.

I don't think that geography was the photographer's strong point. Did he mean "Combe Martin or Minehead" ? Presumably he wrote the captions some time later. The high street is a fairly standard bit of Victorian vernacular. Are there any names legible on the shop signs ?

No guesses as to the motorcycle under the wing then ?

I think that Rick is correct. Kelly badge have the design with a '6' above listed as 6th Infantry Brigade. It seems a logical variation on 2nd Division's Crossed Keys. http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://www.kellybadge.co.uk/images/R1A900.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.kellybadge.co.uk/stock/armbadge.htm&h=92&w=99&sz=8&hl=en&start=29&um=1&tbnid=-bb7dlLPaik7JM:&tbnh=76&tbnw=82&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dformation%2Bsigns%2Bbritish%2Barmy%2B6th%2Binfantry%2Bbrigade%26start%3D20%26ndsp%3D20%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN

Strange to think that when the 1894 act was framed, the British Army was wearing (mostly) red coats and that since the late 1930s they have generally worn something that looks more like overalls. I reckon that Battledress would be exempt under the act because it doesn't look like a uniform, it looks like a sack of sherbet tied round the middle.

It would seem that if you badged up the uniform in tribute to 90% of the County Regiments who fought in the two world wars, you'd be O.K. under the act as they've all been disbanded and you couldn't be accused of impersonating anything. (More's the pity !)

In an attempt to combine the recent posts and pull this back on topic... Who can tell me what this is ? No, I don't mean the 2 T.A.F. Spit. Can't help wondering just how low one has to fly to pick up the Hun on One's cannon. That'll teach him ! Anyway, I think that it's a wonderful picture.

'scuse me Mr Weazle but what it certainly ain't is a motorcycle and this is the motorcycle section !

I found it here :- http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://mailer.fsu.edu/~akirk/tanks/denmark/HtK-46.jpg&imgrefurl=http://mailer.fsu.edu/~akirk/tanks/denmark/denmark.html&h=452&w=650&sz=45&hl=en&start=2&um=1&tbnid=ps7NBwi_O0VZMM:&tbnh=95&tbnw=137&prev=/images%3Fq%3Ddanish%2Barmoured%2Bmotorcycle%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN "a bit difficult to control on ordinary roads" it says. I should think it probably is. Any more contemptuous names for Massey Davidsons and Hardly Fastenoughs whilst we're at it ? I saw a pick-up truck referred to as an "H.R.V." on a motorcycle forum. Apparently it stands for "Harley Recovery Vehicle"

The only Danish bike that I've ever heard of is a Nimbus but I can't say that I can ID this one...No, found it. It's a Hardly Dangerous (this one would be though !)

This one ? http://hmvf.co.uk/forumvb/showthread.php?t=7270&highlight=thistlegorm

The story about the colours being the same makes it sound as if they're being economical with the truth. There were even differences between U.S. and British olive drab. To get the full story, you really need Mike Starmer's "British Army Colours and Disruptive Camouflage in the UK, France and NW Europe 1936 - 1945" http://www.hmvf.co.uk/forumvb/showthread.php?t=6759 Mike refers to S.C.C. (Standard Camouflage Colour) No. 15 Olive Drab, classified as Amendment No.1 to BS.987C in December 1944. This probably doesn't help much which is why it's really necessary to read through the whole thing. The book includes hand painted colour chips to help with matching. I suggest talking to The Vintage Paint Company (I thought they advertised here but can't find it) - They went to great lengths to match my 1940 Khaki Green No.3

'Classic Motorcycle' did a write-up on a surviving example some years ago and I sometimes plough through them looking for information that I know I've seen somewhere. I have sources for most French and Belgian stuff. If you could find something Bulgarian or so then I'm pretty sure I wouldn't recognise it !

They are Sokols. A pre-war Polish revision of the Hardly Dangerous. Someone even makes a model of the machine in your second picture. http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://www.jadar.com.pl/armo/35036/thumbs/tn_Sokol_02.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.jadar.com.pl/armo/35036/index.html&h=138&w=138&sz=11&hl=en&start=54&um=1&tbnid=oxVY_-lpTBNfkM:&tbnh=93&tbnw=93&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dsokol%2Bsidecar%26start%3D40%26ndsp%3D20%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN

...Not any more, nope !

Respirators were made for horses too ! Wasn't there a report from an old Royal Horse Artilleryman who said that the new motorised gun tractors were OK but that "At least a horse doesn't explode when it's shot from under you !"

Ah, an opportunity to play the pedant here ! I realise that this thread relates to post-war vehicles but prior to September 1939, WD vehicles were required to carry a civil registration number (usually from blocks of Middlesex allocations) as well as a Road Fund Licence. This was in addition to the Central Census WD Number. (The 1936 series number is on the fuel tank here). I believe that the 'Key Cards' recorded the transition from the surviving Census number vehicles to the the post-war number sequences but often they do show 'rebuild' numbers rather than the original production allocation.