Grumpy

Including Antar's parading around under Special Types with loads that could easily be divisible or carried by more conventional vehicles and thus being driven illegally. :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

Now we’ve all heard that phase before, I think past history has demonstrated that you don’t really mean it. :coffee::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

Don’t worry Mum, its not just you, Mike likes to pick an argument and drag a thread totally off subject with lots of people on here, there again it can be quite amusing at times, if there is nothing else on the telly.

Quite so, this thread was not started to discuss Stolly’s being over width, so the issue should never have been raised. If it needs to be debated more it should be on a different thread.

When you register a Light Locomotive you list it as a “Light Locomotive” under the D3 category “Body Type” same as you would a “Recovery Vehicle”, “Goods Vehicle” etc. Mike I agree it is a play on the wording in the C&U regs, but they are silent regarding the use of the fuel a Light Locomotive is carrying, and in English Law this is what some people call a “loop hole”. No doubt it will be closed at some point. No, it’s the opposite, the old regs. had a maximum of 2.5 metres for “Normal” goods vehicles, and was amended (amendment 4 from memory, but my memory is not that good nowadays”) to 2.55 metres but remains to same for Locomotives and refrigerated. Fully Agree Yes, but please remember the maximum width for various types of vehicles listed in the C&U regs. is different, i.e. goods vehicle over 3500 kg gross 2.55 metres, Locomotive 2.75 metres etc. etc. Quite so, this thread was not started to discuss Stolly’s being over width, so the issue should never have been raised. If it needs to be debated more it should be on a different thread.

A Stalwart is not over width for use on the road if it is registered as a “Light Locomotive” as the maximum width for a Locomotive is 2.75 metres. The definition of a Light Locomotive according to the Construction and Use Regulations is: “A mechanically propelled vehicle which is not constructed itself to carry a load except water, fuel, accumulators tools and loose equipment which exceeds 7370 kgs but not 11690 kgs.” The main use of the Stalwart was as a UBRE fuel vehicle so it fits in quite nicely with this category. We use a FL10 beavertail 4x2 for moving the Stolly around and it fits the job just right, have a payload capacity of just over 11 ton but you have to be careful how you load as its quite easy to overload the front axle. We paid just over £3,500 3 years ago and its cost about £1,000 to plate it in that time (most of that was tyres and we will get a fair few years out of them now). High centre of gravity has not been a problem and we are on air, good old leaf springs would be even better. Fuel wise we average about 12 mpg loaded. Would really like a 6x2 to be able to carry a 432 but you double your cost for an extra 5 Ton in capacity.

Neil after all that work have you a working brake light switch now?

Mike It’s just a simple spline sleeve that couples the two spline shafts together, held in place with a circlip each end. The main problem is they are right at the bottom of the hull and not accessible without removing the engine for the rear two and the fuel tank for the front two. Duncan Don’t worry too much about wind up on a Stalwart. Most of the problems people encounter with transmission failures is due to poor maintenance or daft driving technique, such as driving over cars or aggressive off-roading. The three wheels on each side are coupled together and then each side is coupled together via a non spin ratchet type differential. It is quite possible through aggressive driving for four or five wheels to leave the ground (especially driving over cars), the centre diff will lock and then all the torque will end up on one bevel box or tracta joint. Keep it well maintained, the tyres matched and more importantly at the correct pressure throughout your journey and you will be very unlucky to get a failure, I’ve drove my Mk 2 thousands of miles on the road without transmission problems (hope I haven’t spoken too soon). Failures due to wind up are normally in the tracta drive and an easy repair and 99% of the time due to tyre size not matched or wrong inflation pressure. Bevel box failure is a nasty repair but again 99% of the time due to shock loads via aggressive driving. If you really want to disconnect drive from a wheel station, the easiest and quickest way is to remove the sun gears from the respective wheel station. That’s the method used for suspended tow and only takes about ten minutes per station, however you must keep the sun gears matched with the station they came off as they are machined as a unit and are not interchangeable. There is a spacer you can put in the hub to replace the sun gears but to be honest its not really needed.

There was a Man 8x8 Wrecker at Leavesley's last time I was there, but the cab was like Swiss cheese. I might pop over this weekend to see if its still there, and get a price for those who are interested.

One on eBlag here: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Tapley-Decelerometer-Brake-Tester-MOT-Approved_W0QQitemZ220246718474QQihZ012QQcategoryZ30922QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem Sorry to hyjack your thread Adam - Mods do you want to move the brake testing bit to a new thread?

Voluntary brake test is £18 for a 3 axle HGV or £30 for a 6 axle HGV. Probably cheaper than the annual calibration of a Tapley meter. There again if you have 10 to test, buying a Tapley meter would be a good idea, you could even test your brakes monthly if you wanted to. Dead easy to book a test with VOSA just call 0870 6060440 option two and they book it over the phone with your local testing station. Totally agree, how often do they have to be calibrated? Personally at the moment I choose to pay the £18 and pop down to the Featherstone testing station, it’s only about 20 minutes away and is even open on Saturday mornings.

Yep they used Tapley metres, sometimes one and sometimes one on each side (always read the same though) The stolly hasn't been tested since about 1998 and in 1999 was parked under a tree until last year when it was pulled out for a bit of light restoration. There have been a couple on eBay recently that have gone quite cheap but I'm not too sure how much the calibration would be? Our local VOSA station now has loading facilities for up to 26 ton, so you don’t even have to take your truck down loaded

Slightly off topic, but just because a vehicle (over 3.5 ton) is MOT exempt you can still have it voluntary tested at any VOSA testing station. You can opt for anything from a full test to just a brake efficiency test. You will not get a fail or prohibition notice but you will get printed results of whatever test you have opted for. The Militant is booked in for a brake test at the end of July and I always tried to get the Stalwart tested when I was doing a lot of road miles with her. Most of us do our own maintenance but its always nice to have things like brakes tested properly and have a bit of paper showing we have taken all reasonably practicable precautions when maintaining our MOT exempt vehicles. VOSA have been trying to promote voluntary tests for a couple of years now and they have gone up 8% last year, but you hear very little talk of this in the ex-military vehicle community. I have always found the blokes down at the VOSA testing station very helpful and enthusiastic about ex-mil vehicles and well worth the effort of going down.

Done thank you - never had to do that at the old place - other stupid question, why does a UK based forum default to a time zone in Brazil - oh look time for tea again

Andy had the same problem this year, only had chance to paint the lower half of the cab with NATO the day before we were due at Cosford Air Show. The rest of the truck looked really faded; a friend who shows ex-mil Land Rovers suggested a quick spray with WD40 and rub with some rag would do the trick. Half hour later and the truck looked like it had just been painted; you could hardly tell which the difference between the fresh paint and the paint that was put on at the beginning of last year. Three weeks later and it still looks bang on, even after some pretty heavy rain and quite a few road miles. If you do try it, it might be worth doing a small insignificant area first. We have even painted over some areas on the cab now, and there has been no reaction with fresh paint on areas that were treated with the WD40 Simon very nice work on the Mk 1 - Must admit there is something very special about the look of the Mk 1's

Why is this web site telling me its 13:20 when its 17:20 and time for tea

I also agree but we should have the choice to do so; there are still a lot of people that prefer to deal with cash and not use the dreaded plastic. The Queen’s currency is getting less accepted now. You can’t pay court fines, hire a car, pay parking tickets etc. with cash anymore. Having to tax your car on line just gives more power to the banks and credit industry. I’ve only tried to tax the MV’s on line a couple of times, always failed with either no insurance listed or requires an MOT. Never had a problem with the local post office with accepting the V112G. It’s not just the DVLA that needs to get its systems working in sync. A couple of weeks ago I tried to get the wife’s Focus taxed on line, but the DVLA system stated it could not find the MOT listed, however an on line check on the VOSA web site confirmed the car was MOT’ed, however I managed to tax my FL10 beaver tail on line but the VOSA site lists it as not having an MOT very weird.

The frightening thing about this is, I have today spoken to 3 different people in 3 different offices @ VOSA and non were aware of the changes made by the latest regulations – namely “The road vehicles (Authorisation of Special Types) (General Order) 2003” The main changes we have to consider here are: it revokes the 1979 Order and now calls for Cat 2 ALIV or ALIV-Combinations to have at least six axles. All @ VOSA confirmed verbally that only five axles are required, however the new regulations conflict with this. I finally found a very helpful chap at the DTF who actually understood the changes. Yes the new regulations require six axles for Cat 2, but, and here is the grey area, The previous regulations (STGO 1979) continue to apply to any AILV or AILV-Combination manufactured before 1st October 1989 in relation to axles and weights. He also confirms that the entire combination is classed as load therefore a two axle trailer c/w a three axle locomotive that is Pre October 1989 can be used at Cat 2 so long as the relevant limits are complied with, although he didn’t understand why anyone would want to. But lets face it, that’s the most common question we receive from normal people; WHY? The above statement is incorrect, to comply with the C&U regulations you calculate the gross weight for a standard draw-bar trailer with two spread axles by using the formula “T x 6,000 Kg” where T is the distance between the centres of the two axles in metres, up to a limit of 18 Ton. A standard two axle drawbar trailer CAN NOT gross at over 20 Ton. Mike I certainly hope you do not have much more to say on this subject. I have no need or inclination to justify my actions to you or anyone else who will not listen to reason. I have been involved in heavy vehicle recovery and movements for far too long now to be concerned with misinformed comments and gossip. Throughout this thread you have made numerous comments to regulations covering the design and use of heavy / wide motor vehicles, which you appear to not quite understand. Any one reading your comments could quite easily get into trouble with the authorities by taking on board your comments. Some are minor offences, others are far more serious, such as thinking tyres ratings are exempt under STGO or how to calculate the maximum gross weight of a trailer, certainly both would probably end with an immediate prohibition order (PG9). I have merely responded to correct your mistakes, not to justify my actions. Enough said, please enjoy your hobby as I enjoy mine, life is far too short to spend time and energy on dross like this. If we bump into each other at a show this year I’ll buy you a pint if I’ve got any money left after filling my fuel tank. Let’s agree to disagree. Very best regards Scott

This may go on a bit but please be patient and I’ll try to clarify all of the queries raised: This statement is incorrect – notification is only required if you are over 2.9 metres and operating under the C&U regulations or 3 metres operating under STGO conditions. Over these widths you start getting into notification procedures with the police. Similarly if you operate over 44 ton gross then notification and indemnity is required with the local authority. There is a very good DTI diagram here: http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roadsafety/drs/drivingforwork/largeorheavyloads/guidance/policeailloadwidthdiagram Tyres are not exempt from regulation under STGO, it is possible to up-rate their loading at a reduced speed but only if authorised by the manufacture or via an engineers report. In response to your other point, the trailer is wider than our load, therefore more suitable by eliminating an overhanging load. Good point Mike – VOSA have previously accepted this but only verbally. Can anyone else shed light on this? Unfortunately I can not open your pictures using the server I am on at present (3G card on BT). It would be interesting to see the latest amendment date. I am not sure if you are aware that a large number of these trailers were modified and up-rated to 14 ton classification by the Army in the late sixties / early seventies to transport the FV430 series vehicles. The modifications were very minor and amounted to about half a dozen additional gussets being welded into the main frame of the trailer. If your manual is up to date with the amendments these modifications should be listed. I have trimmed your post here a little, but yes you are making a guess and hypothesising the result and trying to hang me on this result. Again I will not divulge the weight on an open forum of a vehicle that does not belong to me. I will confirm that I was and always will operate within axel limits, this way I operate safely and keep my licence. Again another misconception, a breakdown vehicle can tow a trailer, however it ceases to become a breakdown vehicle. The DETR has stated that, until such time as they can come up with a Construction and Use definition of a breakdown vehicle, in legal terms a heavy breakdown vehicle towing a trailer has to be seen as a Locomotive. The courts have already made this interpretation (DPP v Yates). In practice you have to allow for sufficient train weight to comply with C & U regulations or STGO. As you are aware Mike, the train weight is determined by the design of the Tractor Unit or Locomotive which is where my 60 ton figure comes from. This falls within the STGO Cat 2 and this determines the 12.5 ton per axel. No I can’t gross my trailer at 40 ton (round figures) but as the Militant is classed as a Heavy Locomotive in this usage I can tow two trailers together. Not really recommended as the Militant is slow enough with one trailer let alone two. No you are quite right Mike, however in summery I feel you are trying to defend statements that were made without the correct information or full knowledge of the regulations that apply to the movement of large / heavy vehicles. You’re constant “And but…. And but… And but…” postings demonstrate this. I have taken your accusations personally and I am offended by your innuendoes that I have bought the movement into disrepute based on guesses and hypothesis, although you are probably quite a nice bloke as most are in our movement, perhaps just a little misguided at present. Keep smiling as life is far more precious than we realise at times, and our time is far too valuable to be falling out over problems that do not exist. Best regards, Scott Mods can you please move these threads from the AEC Militant Mk 3 Gallery as people who look here dont want to get boged down with this lot, perhaps to the other chatter bit. I also have no objection if you wish to re-instate the pictures that were posted by Poptop and Simon Stolly, all of them were taken on private property and not on the public highway.

All I have only just been made away of the misinformed comments regarding my transportation of a certain vehicle last weekend. To clarify things a little; My Militant and recovery trailer are operated under Special Type General Order CAT 2 (STGO) STGO makes provision authorising certain types of vehicles to be used on roads notwithstanding that they do not fully comply with the requirements that generally apply to vehicles permitted on roads. The Order specifies the requirements that must be met by vehicles seeking to rely on such authorisation. The rig is authorised by its construction and design for a train weight of 60 tons and axel weights not exceeding 12.5 ton per axel @ 40 mph. The vehicle being transported is listed in various books as weighing anywhere between 16 to 19 ton in a battle ready state including ammunition. I will not divulge the actual weight, as the vehicle does not belong to me; however I can confirm my trailer axel weights were well within my authorised maximum. The trailer is listed as a ten ton recovery trailer, and was used by the army for the recovery of tracked and wheeled vehicles within the 10 ton classification. For those people who assume that a 10 ton class vehicle only weighs 10 tons fully laden then they are totally misinformed. In civilian use this trailer is in fact rated higher than when used by the military as most ex-military vehicles are. Our armed forces are NOT exempt from the C & U regulations unless they are operating under STGO or at war. For those who wish is study the Statutory Instrument 2003 No. 1998 The Road Vehicles (Authorisation of Special Types) (General) Order 2003 you can view the full document here; http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2003/20031998.htm Yes we all want to see the long term future of vintage vehicle preservation and in particular the right to continue to use them on the road, however misinformed comments being posted on an open forum does as much damage to our cause as the incorrect use of our vehicles. I would respectfully request that the moderators restore this thread to enable me to respond to all of the comments made regarding my actions as I feel this forum should be open and uncensored, allowing members to defend themselves against accusations made on this public forum.

There are yellow metal thrust bearings on the lay shaft in a series gearbox along with yellow metal thrusts in the transfer box. Using EP 90 that has a GL rating of 4 or less is fine with yellow metals its only when you go to GL 5 or above that the sulphur content of the oil causes problems with erosion. :-D

Neil Only just heard you haven’t been well. Glad you’re on the mend mate, get well soon. Best regards Scott

My Tatra 813 uses Ether capsules to start when running on neat or nearly neat petrol (its a V12 Diesel Lump) you just have to remember to chuck a couple of gallon of engine oil in that tank for pump lubrication.

Now thats one very nice car and looks well built, would look better in BRG tho

Nick name I was given a long long time ago when I was in the music business – Still suits me rather well, just ask my family and friends :whistle: