10FM68

Yes, it's amazing what you can do with a printer!

I remember those 100 gallon water trailers, every field troop in the Sappers was issued with one and it used to be towed behind the tp comd's Lightweight FFR. Not liked as it meant that, as there was no room on the trailer (which was heavy anyway) to stow kit, everything had to be put in the back of the Lightweight - which, with two radios in as well, wasn't exactly spacious. The Tp SSgt, meanwhile, had a 3/4 ton trailer AND the LWB Land Rover, so he was fine! (The Recce Sgt had a Ferret, so he was OK, but usually wet through)!

As early MB says, the best option is to go for colour matching from a local supplier. The alternative might be to have a look on French mil vehicle websites where the paint may be readily available. The problem is 'NATO green' is too vague a term as it is different in just about every NATO country (and that's a lot). The P4 will be in the French version of NATO green (hence OTAN) and won't be the same as British NATO green which is to BS381c 285.

Might have been this one. Taken at Westdown, SPTA possibly as late as 1972/3. Certainly I can recall one doing an engine change on a Centurion at Tilshead Lodge at around that time.

Again, thank you. I think you're probably right - it would be too early for SCC15 and it does seem close to khaki green G3. Interesting. Thanks again

Very many thanks for your prompt and comprehensive reply. Only remaining question: can I take the colour as an accurate, contemporary example of SCC15?

I recently bought these on eBay. I wanted them to put bits and pieces in thinking they were the same size as tobacco tins, but they aren't they're much smaller. Anyway, there seem to be a lot of them on eBay at the moment and I therefore wondered whether they really do date from WWII. If they do, what percussion caps were they for? And, again, if they are original, is the colour authentic SCC-15? They don't seem to have been used and the stencilling is incomplete, so they could have come from a large stock of unused tins, but, equally, they might have been made in India earlier this year. I've no idea - has anyone on here? Thanks in advance 10 68

Exactly, I think we're letting our imaginations run away with us here. There is no reason at all to doubt the age of the film: everything is right for 1948. There is no proof that what seems to be a windscreen is even glass and the dimensions are certainly not correct for a Land Rover, that isn't a windscreen wiper but a bit of trim of some sort detached from the rest above it. The 'vent panel' is certainly not Land Rover and that isn't a tropical roof but, probably a bit of old tarpaulin. The construction may well be based on an old vehicle, but as others have said, it is some sort of shed - either for the adjacent vegetable garden or, worse, given the destitution of so many in Hamburg at that time and as evidenced by people emerging from the former cellars of their homes the rest having been destroyed, even somewhere to sleep. The presence of old bits of pipe, probably old gas/water pipe, but possibly tilt hoops, suggest other attempts at making a shelter nearby. And, certainly there aren't too many Beetles for 1948 in a major, comparatively wealthy, city port like Hamburg.

No idea what you're on about, I'm afraid.

Very early 7.62x51 blanks in British use were shorter than ball, but that had changed by the late 60s/70s. Thereafter they were the same length - probably so that they fed better. As a boy I used to collect empty cases trying to get one of each year from the head stamps (I know, I know). The early ones in my collection had crimped tops with several crimps a bit like 4th from left below. The later ones were identical to that 2nd from right. I'm sure most of you know this, but a quick guide to what nationality the boxes are will be the NATO country code (and this extends to friendly countries outside NATO. The UK being 99. British ammo boxes are always service brown, most foreign ones seem to be a shade of green. And please chaps, unless you're American they're ammo BOXES not CANS!

https://www.axholmesigns.co.uk/ they have a stencil for a Jeep first aid box

Hmm! Thanks, that's proof of a 'C' being pronounced 'K' certainly. But definitely the wrong 'Ark' in this case.

Could well be! Thanks for your contribution.

Some sappers at Longmoor in 1933

Certainly could be foreign - that's a dodgy looking swagger stick for a Sapper and his mac isn't the standard officers' riding mac of the period! The other chap (half hidden) may be foreign, but certainly seems to have a hatband of a different colour and the back is a bit cocked up. Could be a colonel+ with a red band or something else.

I wonder whether it is immediately post-war. Some of the Sappers seem to have been issued navy blue berets in place of the khaki and the corporal on the warflat seems to be wearing a shirt with a collar. Also the Scammel has no headlamp covers.

Looks as if the vehicles belonged to the London County Council

I expect it'll be a Ukrainian tractor driver moonlighting!🙂

Thank you very much indeed, Sean. That is really kind of you to look it up for me. As you say, that solves the mystery. And, yes, whether 'Ark' was a particular vehicle or a more general nickname, I don't know, but, in the book, it is referred to as 'the ark' rather than 'Ark' with a capital letter, suggesting it may be a more general name than a specific one - but, that's conjecture. Again, many thanks 1068

Many thanks for your speedy response. I hadn't thought of Humber - shame on me! But, that now raises the question - which Humber? I presume it would have been a Humber Light Reconnaissance Car as it needed a steel door and be sufficiently open at the top for the general to acknowledge the salute. I understand that some were built as staff cars - the Royal family had some where the rear seats were provided with reinforced glass side windows. Whether it was one of these or not, I don't know. Interesting...

I am currently reading the history of 43 (Wessex) Division from Jun 44 to May 45. It was compiled by Maj Gen Essame, in 1951. Formerly he had commanded 214 Inf Bde in that Division. From time to time he refers to an 'ark'. This is not the 79 Armd Div 'ark' - the bridgelayer, but a vehicle used by commanders, including the divisional commander, Maj Gen Thomas. Here's a quote: [Gen Thomas] then entered the steel door of the ark, slammed it to, and, standing upright, [suggesting an open top] acknowledged the brigadier's salute. The ark shot off at speed down the road". My thought is that an 'ark' might have been a White Scout Car, but does anyone know for certain, please? 1068

It looks right to me. Bear in mind that the old paint will have suffered a great deal over the years - from being heated, scrubbed, subject to fuel spills etc. Yours looks to be in DBG, but soon after that one was built there was a change to a matt green which was more olive - if you have one have a look at HPP lamps made at that time and later = the bowls are painted in that colour. It is probably a variant of the British "NAT green" which often varied markedly according to the manufacturer. For example, the NATO green factory applied to Land Rovers in the later years (from mid/late 70s) is a very different shade from the tins of paint applied by units - either sprayed or brushed, while the RAF version was different again.

An FFR, to me, and I think most people, is one which is designated as such in the build specification: i.e with 24 volt electrics, suppression and so on: designed for carrying and operating radios (as you say, some 24V 90A Land Rovers were built for helistart and would not, therefore, be equipped with combat net radio, though they might have a "Pyephone" or equivalent for airfield/FARP/FOB use). An FFR would be more expensive than a GS and would have been bought against a requirement with a view to keeping numbers to a minimum - where a GS could do the role, an FFR would not be issued. Vehicles would be issued to a unit establishment based on that requirement - a "scale of issue" - so FFRs for appointments which required combat net radios, such as the command chain, while GS vehicles would be issued for use by others not required to be on the command net - such as the quartermaster's staff, cooks, chaplain and others with, largely admin and support roles. The scale of issue of radios would, of course, match that of the vehicles provided to carry them (plus a scale of spares, probably, depending on their assessed reliability). So if a unit were on exercise or operations, it would be normal for FFRs to be used in the radio role and GS in others. Around camp - for domestic use, duty driver, etc, it is quite likely that an FFR might be used in the GS role, but, it wouldn't have seats in the back of course and its URS (battery boxes, radio racks etc (for other types of FFR Land Rover) would get in the way. As for VPK, the same would apply - if the vehicle required radios it would have them and certainly that was the case for my own which, in 1977 in NI was fitted with combat net radio as were the other vehicles in the chain of command which were required to be on the net. Regarding aerials: the ones on the front wing with aerial tuning units (ATUs: Larkspur TUAAM: Clansman) were generally VHF and those on the "candlesticks" HF. Most units used VHF for command with HF as a back-up for some command appointments (generally for use as a rear-link radio as it had greater range), while RMP traffic units, for example, ran an HF command net as their requirement was to communicate over a larger area. So, a typical Land Rover might have one or two VHF aerials on the wings (forward and rear link) with a single Aerial on a candlestick (HF rearlink). Royal Signals vehicles with a wider communications remit might have four aerials. Of course, as with everything to do with the military, there would be exceptions: the "establishment" was one thing, real life another - particularly given that breakdowns and failures of both vehicles and radios would result in apparently odd combinations (remember that photo of Bluebelle's with a Centurion ARV being used as a rebro station!). Whether the URS was so designed in order that it could be removed to convert the vehicle into a GS, or whether it was in order that it could be removed to reduce weight for helicopter lift, I don't know, but I suspect the latter as it never found its way into other SWB Land Rovers which might also benefit from easily-removed radio fittings to free up space (not so necessary for LWB Land Rovers, of course). I'm not convinced that the Army had any particular plan to employ FFRs to GS as a matter of course anyway, as the whole point of them was to provide radios and transport for the commanders and others who required them. I know nothing about manpack combat net radios being fitted to GS vehicles as, in my time in the army, I never came across them, nor heard of them until finding this forum, in fact. Winterisation was applied to all vehicles which were required to be so modified according to the unit establishment, whether they were FFR or GS Land Rovers, 4-tonners or whatever. These included vehicles in units with a NATO flank role - the ACE Mobile Force (Land) AMF(L) army units, RM commandos and RAF units supporting the support helicopter and the Harrier forces. The vast majority were, therefore, righthand drive and most were to be seen on Salisbury Plain as the main AMF(L) units were based at Bulford. I ought to add that, of course, it was standard practice to remove both radios and ATUs (and other G1098 items) from vehicles when in camp or when no radio net was set up (not on exercise, training or operations) - hence the frequency of photos of FFR vehicles without them. This was done for security and to prevent their being swiped - always a problem in barracks, particularly for lodger units, as I frequently found to my cost. When my Land Rovers were out of use I usually had to remove wipers, rubies and bulbs or else the R Signals major unit with whom we shared a barracks would nick them - particularly off the trailers which, of course, saw much less activity than the Land Rovers!

A lightweight is capable of towing a pack howitzer, but they weren't used for that and certainly not FFRs. The gun tractors were long wheelbase Land Rovers. As an FFR, yours would probably have been used by someone in the command structure, perhaps a troop or battery commander, a gun position officer, battery captain or the like. In the infantry battalions similarly, perhaps a company commander, even a CO, but it's difficult to be certain. Generally, the more senior you were in a unit or formation, the more likely you were to get a long wheelbase as they were more comfortable with more room for the radio operator and all the kit of three people. That having been said, I know of one divisional commander, a major general, who used a lightweight for his Rover Group. And pretty tight it was! Yours would almost certainly have towed a half-ton trailer.

Walker, WALTON & Hanson, not Watson.