WCMatt Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 (edited) Hello List, It certainly has been a while! Had a couple of questions pertaining to British SMGs so I thought I'd post to the hive mind :cool2:. Magazine Load out: How many magazines were issued with each L2A3 SMG? How about with the Lanchester? I want to say "seven" but not sure..... BFA (Blank Firing Attachment) Was one ever developed/made for either the Sterling or the Lanchester? Anyone have a pic of what that might look like? Regards, Matt Edited July 1, 2016 by WCMatt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Hall Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 Non of the Pams I have for the L2 list how many mags would be carried so it must be in a non L2 pan i.e. Personnel kit or maybe routine orders. Theres no BFA listed in the 1978 L2 accessories pam. There was one for the Canadian version, the C1. Ive never heard of an official BFA for the Lanchester and I don't recall hearing of there being any 9mm blanks until much later after WW2. There may of course be some non British BFAs made anytime between WW2 and the present but I expect it's easier to put a bolt through a worn out barrel than to design a True BFA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowdrop358 Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 Here you go. I'm sure I saw them in the late '80's on exercise (painted bright yellow) but it was a long time ago and my memory is nothing like it was. :-( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCMatt Posted July 2, 2016 Author Share Posted July 2, 2016 Thanks for the replies guys!. I would have been surprised if a bfa wasn't made for the Sterling. Think I also would have been surprised if one had been made for the Lanchester. Considering what was going on in England when that weapon was designed (or-reverse engineered from the MP28?). I've been considering one of the two for a semi auto build and at first it was Lanchester all the way but I must admit it's the Sterling that is really growing on me now. As for mag load out, maybe I should post that question down in the "kit" section provided it's not in any of the L2 pubs... Regards, Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoseman Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 I would say mag load for the Lanchester would be 6 mags. The Sten had its bandolier for 7 plus 1 in the weapon. There are the purpose made / redesigned web pouches for the sten and Lanchester holding 3 each. I've never seen a bandolier for the Lanchester, probably because of the mag length. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferretfixer Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 Yes, the 'Normal' issue when you draw your Sterling for an exercise, was. 6 x magazines. Along with a sling, Bayonet & Scabbard, & of course. A cleaning kit! Back in the day, I only drew my own SMG when going on Manouvres. As I already owned the other listed items! That meant if I lost anything, I wouldn't have to Pay for any replacements. & I could maintain my own equipment in my spare time. to the highest standard! It also meant that when you returned form Exercise, & had to return your Weapon the Company/ Squadron Armoury. It was the ONLY thing you had to clean prior to this. & MUCH quicker to sign in the ONE item. & get back to the Block for a MUCH needed/ Extremely welcomed Shower!...You sorted your Personal kit second!......Ah, Fond Memories of happy Days........They never seemed as bad when you recall things nowadays. as they actually were at the time!...:cool2: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Hall Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 Is is this image from an Army pam or from a Sterling catalogue/Brochure? The gun appears to be a commercial Mk4 rather than British issue? I'll have to keep my eyes open for one now. The Blanks look like the German plastic tip blanks we currently use. They're not cheap but I'd imagine the MOD get a trade discount. [ATTACH=CONFIG]116711[/ATTACH] Here you go. I'm sure I saw them in the late '80's on exercise (painted bright yellow) but it was a long time ago and my memory is nothing like it was. :-( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoseman Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 (edited) : Is is this image from an Army pam or from a Sterling catalogue/Brochure? The gun appears to be a commercial Mk4 rather than British issue? I'll have to keep my eyes open for one now. The Blanks look like the German plastic tip blanks we currently use. They're not cheap but I'd imagine the MOD get a trade discount. I've seen the 9mms plastic tip blanks available commercially here. There was a guy while ago trying to get rid of a load. I was searching for blanks for my Sten. Any recommendations for 9mms blanks in UK, crimped ends only as mines a side venting (closed barrel) Edited July 2, 2016 by Hoseman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Hall Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 The plastic ones should be fine as the crimped plastic end is retained on the case when fired. DAG was the manufacturer I was thinking of http://www.wallarms.com/9mmDagBlank50.aspx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowdrop358 Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 the image is from a Sterling catalogue/Brochure as the BFA is black rather than yellow. The Blanks were German, they came in the standard cardboard box with a white label and a blue stripe. The gun itself maybe one of the old stock of casings that Sterling bought back from the MOD at Donnington which were made for the Indians(?) and the contract was cancelled. They were all crinkle finish which is why you will see newer, crinkle finish stocks on British issue guns. Who knows? Hope this is of interest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCMatt Posted July 2, 2016 Author Share Posted July 2, 2016 the image is from a Sterling catalogue/Brochure as the BFA is black rather than yellow. The Blanks were German, they came in the standard cardboard box with a white label and a blue stripe. The gun itself maybe one of the old stock of casings that Sterling bought back from the MOD at Donnington which were made for the Indians(?) and the contract was cancelled. They were all crinkle finish which is why you will see newer, crinkle finish stocks on British issue guns. Who knows?Hope this is of interest So the crinkle finish Sterlings were made for the Indians? Over here ('State side) I've only ever seen crinkle finished L2s........ Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Hall Posted July 2, 2016 Share Posted July 2, 2016 All commercial Sterlings had the crinkle finish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCMatt Posted July 2, 2016 Author Share Posted July 2, 2016 All commercial Sterlings had the crinkle finish. Good to know, thanks. Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowdrop358 Posted July 3, 2016 Share Posted July 3, 2016 All commercial Sterlings had the crinkle finish. Apart from the gold and silver plated ones Tacky but fully functional! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Hall Posted July 3, 2016 Share Posted July 3, 2016 Quite a few of those gold ones were found in Iraq, old Sadam was a fan of the Sterling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowdrop358 Posted July 4, 2016 Share Posted July 4, 2016 They were and are cracking bits of kit only let down by crappy off shore bought ammunition. With 2Z they were great! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Hall Posted July 4, 2016 Share Posted July 4, 2016 Agh yes, how many times have we heard about the Stirling ricochets bullets off wet leather. I'd challenge anyone who believes that to try it out. There's a guy on YouTube firing one out to some stupidly long distance, he can't even see the target half the time but the projectile still passes through sheet plate. In my opinion the Sterling has to be the best all round SMG ever made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCMatt Posted July 4, 2016 Author Share Posted July 4, 2016 Agh yes, how many times have we heard about the Stirling ricochets bullets off wet leather. Can't say I've ever heard of this and I'm an avid shooter. Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Hall Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 It was something that British Servicemen used to say when the Sterling was in service. The MOD purchased a quantity of 9mm rounds from India I believe and it was unreliable. The unreliability soon manifested into rounds not penetrating wet leather. Can't say I've ever heard of this and I'm an avid shooter. Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Suslowicz Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 It was something that British Servicemen used to say when the Sterling was in service. The MOD purchased a quantity of 9mm rounds from India I believe and it was unreliable. The unreliability soon manifested into rounds not penetrating wet leather. :-D I once had a box of Kynoch .38 S&W from Weller & Dufty's auction. Putting that through the 'tanker' Enfield was an interesting experience, and one which reduced everyone present to fits of laughter. "Click" pause "Phut" (bullet passes cylinder to barrel gap) pause "Pop!" (bullet leaves barrel, large yellow candle flame appears from cordite in barrel burning) long pause "Dink" (bullet finally reaches end of range somehow) The muzzle velocity was about 10 m/s, and the entire box behaved like this. Pulling one round showed the cordite (and it was cordite) to look a bit greasy/sticky, and firing the primer got a "Click, hissss" sound like a match being struck. It would definitely have been worth filming as a comedy (actually lighting a cigarette from the barrel flame) apart from the risk of there being one round in the box that hadn't deteriorated and the obvious safety hazard. Chris. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
10FM68 Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 It was something that British Servicemen used to say when the Sterling was in service. The MOD purchased a quantity of 9mm rounds from India I believe and it was unreliable. The unreliability soon manifested into rounds not penetrating wet leather. IN pre-Northern Ireland training during the mid-70s we were given a firepower demonstration to debunk the myth that the SMG wouldn't fire through a wet blanket. A folded wet blanket was set up on the range with a large number of pieces of plywood spaced 2" apart behind and then engaged from 25m. Went through the lot with no problem at all. Watching a GPMG demolish a brick wall was fun too - the bricks didn't provide a lot of cover for very long! I once had a box of Kynoch .38 S&W from Weller & Dufty's auction. Putting that through the 'tanker' Enfield was an interesting experience, and one which reduced everyone present to fits of laughter. "Click" pause "Phut" (bullet passes cylinder to barrel gap) pause "Pop!" (bullet leaves barrel, large yellow candle flame appears from cordite in barrel burning) long pause "Dink" (bullet finally reaches end of range somehow) The muzzle velocity was about 10 m/s, and the entire box behaved like this. Pulling one round showed the cordite (and it was cordite) to look a bit greasy/sticky, and firing the primer got a "Click, hissss" sound like a match being struck. It would definitely have been worth filming as a comedy (actually lighting a cigarette from the barrel flame) apart from the risk of there being one round in the box that hadn't deteriorated and the obvious safety hazard. Sorry, couldn't manage to get both quotes in in the normal fashion! But, I can vouch for that as well. Again, in NI mid-70s, Enfield .38s were issued to many of us, but there wasn't enough ammo at first to use for training. So, about mid-tour enough became available for us to try the things out on the pipe range. Of the chamber of rounds, "click", "bang", "click, "click", bang" and so on. Rather felt that, in future in a tight spot it might be better to use the gun as a missile and throw it! That was, as I recall, with Indian ammunition. 10 68 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teletech Posted July 7, 2016 Share Posted July 7, 2016 Ah, ammunition of uncertain production, you have to love it! Worst I ever met was some extremely unreliable and corrosive 9mm from Egypt, made in the mid-90s Second worst was much of the Pakistani .303 I met. Date codes in the mid to late '60s. It almost all worked and produced something like acceptable velocity but the hang-fires were random and impressive: bang, click...bang, click-bang. You pulled the trigger and knew it was going to go off, just not WHEN! Longest I had to wait was 3-seconds, you sure wouldn't want to use that stuff for a mad minute. On the other hand, I had some Winchester .303 from WWI that was absolutely a joy. Reliable and more accurate than any of the British issue fodder I tried (sorry). The Greek stuff has always been very nice in both .303 and .30-06. So, I wonder if it's more about the temperature of storage or the initial producer? I should throw 100rnds of something in a black metal box in the yard for a year and compare that to a box stored on a shelf and another in a freezer. I wonder what sort of ammunition would be most interesting for such a test? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferretfixer Posted July 7, 2016 Share Posted July 7, 2016 Please be VERY careful if you do this!!! Ammo store badly, can result in excessive breech pressures due to deterioration of the charge loading! Ensure your Firearm is up to the job of high pressure loads before you shoot it. DONT use it in a very old rifle, the metal structure also changes over many years. & can in some cases weaken! In certain cases, the pressures produced, can be near Proof round Chamber pressures! repeated firing like this, will eventually cause the steel to fail. With consequences you don't want to think about!.... I had the sad duty to investigate & do a report on a Mortar barrel that had failed in Service. The 'Incident' Killed the surrounding crew of three! The mess involved was something you also do not want to be involved with! The Proof house in London. Has many examples of small arms that have failed in proof. Illustrating the dangers & Results of incorrect loadings/ Breech pressures causing 'Failures' :embarrassed: I understand what you would be trying to achieve. But, PLEASE Be careful!...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teletech Posted July 7, 2016 Share Posted July 7, 2016 Good point, the burn rate of powder can increase or decrease significantly based on just how it deteriorated. I wouldn't recommend anyone not familiar with reloading and pressure signs try something like this. Fear not, I won't be subjecting a Webley to such abuse. I'd either use an action massively overbuilt for the round in question (ie P-14 Enfield, 1911 in 9mm,.38spl in a .357, .44sppl in a 44magnum...) or hand-load and go with minimum loads. Please be VERY careful if you do this!!! Ammo store badly, can result in excessive breech pressures due to deterioration of the charge loading! Ensure your Firearm is up to the job of high pressure loads before you shoot it. DONT use it in a very old rifle, the metal structure also changes over many years. & can in some cases weaken! In certain cases, the pressures produced, can be near Proof round Chamber pressures! repeated firing like this, will eventually cause the steel to fail. With consequences you don't want to think about!.... I had the sad duty to investigate & do a report on a Mortar barrel that had failed in Service. The 'Incident' Killed the surrounding crew of three! The mess involved was something you also do not want to be involved with! The Proof house in London. Has many examples of small arms that have failed in proof. Illustrating the dangers & Results of incorrect loadings/ Breech pressures causing 'Failures' :embarrassed: I understand what you would be trying to achieve. But, PLEASE Be careful!...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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