AWM RAF Leyland

[Great War truck]

The Australian War memorial had an RAF Leyland that they were restoring. Does anybody know how they are getting on with it?

[mammoth]

Are you referring to a second one or the one that they have had for a long while?

[Great War truck]

I think that they have had it for a long time but the restoration was not completed?

[mammoth]

I could't find it on their website (which is just so humungous that you need to be something of an expert to navigate it) however try putting the question on facebook - AWMemorial

[Great War truck]

OK. Thanks. Good idea.

[lynx42 Rick Cove]

I believe the RAF Leyland was restored by this company, https://historicvintagerestorations.com/ in Melbourne.  I had my 1916 Albion on loan to the AWM until their Leyland was finished.  My Albion then went to the Bandiana Military Museum where it is still 'On Loan'.  I do get it out occasionally for a run to Corowa or the like.

Here it is at Bandiana with the curator and OIC only last April..

[Mike C]

Rick is correct: the Leyland was restored by that company. It is REL20264, but there is no entry or image on the publicly accessible website. The number plate AF-32 which was with the vehicle at the time of acquisition is visible on the website as REL20264.001. 

The vehicle is most likely ex-RAAF, probably one of the Imperial Gift vehicles. It came to the AWM in the 1990s with a flat tray body. As much information as possible was gathered on the RAF Tender bodywork and the coach builder at HVR built it. There were other companies involved, too: for example, the lateral water tank was manufactured by Cecil & Co in Bayswater, Victoria as a donation.

The same company (HVR) also restored the FWD Model B (REL33289) and did some restorative work on the Crossley RAF Light Tender (REL16274.001) which had been restored prior to acquisition by the AWM. Fantastic people to work with. Restorations were done circa 2007 to 2010. All three vehicles were acquired and are regarded as 'examples of type' as their full provenance is not known and the restorations were extensive.

Any particular reason for asking? If so, I may be able to assist.

Mike

 

[Great War truck]

Thank you for your comprehensive reply. My reason for asking is that a UK collector provided them with drawings for the body and he was curious as to whether they had completed the restoration. I don't think i have ever seen it although i have seen photos of the FWD (before and after) and their Crossley. I normally keep my eyes open for updates on WW1 vehicle restorations but the Leyland had completely dropped off the radar.

Thanks again

Tim  

[Mike C]

Well all I can say is I apologise for not having followed up with the 'UK Collector' who generously provided the drawings. I also have to amend my previous post, as the restoration was done in 2003, not 2007-ish. How we forget!

Attached images will be of interest. They are of the Leyland being loaded onto the truck for transport to Canberra. It was first loaded onto a tilt-tray, then cross loaded to the semi-trailer. I remember I had to have a 'discussion' with the un-cooperative government transport driver who tried to tie it down with chains over some of the brand new paintwork!   Also visible on the same load is the first of two FWD Model B trucks acquired by the AWM. This was the donor vehicle for the one that was later restored. I understand the donor has now been disposed of.

Mike

 

[Great War truck]

Sorry. The UK collector was not me (if that is how it was coming across), but the chap who provided the drawings and thought i might know how they were getting on with it. Anyway, it looks a super nice restoration and i like that they put the swivel brackets on the side which really makes it. I will send the photos on to him. So, is the Leyland on public display?

Thanks

Tim

[Mike C]

No, I knew you were speaking of someone else. Yes, it is a nice job. Don't know if it is on display - I suspect it is in storage at Treloar Technology Centre as Anzac Hall has been cleared out preparatory to putting up a new building.

Mike

[Great War truck]

Thanks. 

[nz2]

Some years ago we followed through on this Leyland trying to seek a year of manufacture. The Curator of the collection  ( George) was touring in New Zealand and took an interest in our research and collection. On his return he was unable to locate a chassis number, the engine number is for a latter engine of the 1920's. From the lorries earlier condition when it came into the collection he suspects it was an accumulation of parts to represent one of the WW1 period.  No other numbers for other parts carrying the brass id plates has been passed on. Comparing those numbers in our data base could  link closer to a year of build. 

If others have access to the collection and can record additional ID numbers it would be helpful.

Doug 

[nz2]

Some years ago we followed through on this Leyland trying to seek a year of manufacture. The Curator of the collection  ( George) was touring in New Zealand and took an interest in our research and collection. On his return he was unable to locate a chassis number, the engine number is for a latter engine of the 1920's. From the lorries earlier condition when it came into the collection he suspects it was an accumulation of parts to represent one of the WW1 period.  No other numbers for other parts carrying the brass id plates has been passed on. Comparing those numbers in our data base could  link closer to a year of build. 

If others have access to the collection and can record additional ID numbers it would be helpful.

Doug 

[Mike C]

As far as I'm aware, the Leyland is chassis number 21625.

Given the number of years the type spent in RAAF service, then this vehicle's years in private contracting, then restored by an enthusiast prior to the AWM acquisition, an engine change is entirely possible, indeed, probable.

George was a conservator in Collection Services, not a curator in the Military Heraldry and Technology Section.

Mike

Edited July 5, 2022 by Mike C

[Great War truck]

Thank you, What was the engine number please Doug?

[nz2]

George has given the engine number as 21625  quoting  it from the brass plate attached to the engine with the type S5.36. He also refers to the top curved corners of the firewall (scuttle) is formed with the rest of the curved section, not soldered.  That production form would indicate a latter scuttle. 

It would be convenient for a museum to use such a number to identify an object to the records and data base. It fills in the boxes  as to an ID.  As a result errors do occur in translation  later when the object is quoted as being a particular number. 

Thankyou Mike C for correcting me as to George's true work title. 

Doug

[Great War truck]

I have been advised that:

Chassis 21625 is a reconstructed RAF type, rebuilt at Ham Works in early 1921 so, if it retained most of its original bits it would have been originally built between 4/16 and 11/18.

 The engine model is S5.36, which was in production 1916-26, so perhaps there was no engine number plate on the engine – a cast brass plate at the top, middle of the aluminium crankcase on the offside.  If there was one, it would probably have had the same rebuild number as the chassis number, ie. 21625.

[Great War truck]

When asked about the Leyland the AWM reply:

 

 

Yes we have a c 1918 Leyland truck in the Memorial collection and it was on display in the early 2000s for several years . It was restored by a previous owner in the 1970s and the Memorial acquired it in the 1990s. It has had conservation work done on it while in the Memorials care. Our records state the chassis and mechanical components are originals. The tray is not original and the vehicle does require more restoration work. There are no plans to complete restoration at this time.

[Mike C]

Sounds like someone has referred to an old catalogue entry for the reply, and not looked at the lorry!

NZ2: I suspect George would not like to be referred to as a curator anymore than I'd like to be referred to as a conservator.

Mike