1935 WD trials in North Wales for 15-c.w.t.

[Radek]

Information and pictures from Wheels and Tracks

In the 1935 WD trials in North Wales, held during early October.  Any makers were encouraged to submit prototypes to be tried for possible amry use. In addition to the usual evaluation tests by the MVEE at Farnborough, such vehicles particapated in extensive annual trials in the mountainous districts of North Wales. The Bedford WD and the Guy Ant became successful contenders in those Welsh trials, but also participating in those were products of Austin and Commer. The Commer entry, know as the Beetle, managed to bring in an order for 400 units, but the Austin failed dismally.

Austin  15-cwt 4x2 truck

It was not surprising, of course, that with tha 15cwt project the Austin people endeavoured to land a lucrative War Department order, but having nothing to really base their experimental model on, it was risky. What the Army Wanted ideally, was a compact model that was assembled from the ovesize mechanical components then in production for the 2 and 3-ton trucks which was relatively easy for the leading commmercila vehicle producers of the day. But try Austin did.

In the trials, the Austin 10-cwt prototype manage the Old Horse Sheo Pass (with  a maximum gradient of 1 in 4,87) an the 1,5 milelong Bwlch-y-Groes (maximum 1 in 4) fairly well, but the wet and loose surface af Alt-y-Bady (maximum 1 in 3,38) stopped it, whilst all the others went past. The Truck had been hand-buil during the preceding months, borrowing components from the Austin Twenty car, which had a 3,4 litre six-cylinder engine with 23,5HP, straightforward 4x2 chassis on special wheel with Dunlop 9,00-16 cross coutry tyres, two seat open cab, wooden GS body with hinged tail and side boards. The cab ahad a folding canopy extendig over about two-thirds of the width, leaving the passenger uncovered. Aero screen for the driver, passenger had solid shiled in front of. In spite of its failing, the Ministry did actually purchase the Austin prototype. It was acquired und Contract V.2853, dtated 18th Jan 1936 and alocated census No. Z352609.

[Radek]

Commer beetle

[Rootes75]

Very nice, I know one survives but I would still love to find one.

[Radek]

3 minutes ago, Rootes75 said:

Very nice, I know one survives but I would still love to find one.

whych one? Do you thought Commer, isnt it? 😉

[Radek]

Guy Ant

[Rootes75]

Yes, I know of 1 Commer Beetle survivor.

[Rootes75]

44 minutes ago, Radek said:

Information and pictures from Wheels and Tracks

In the 1935 WD trials in North Wales, held during early October.  Any makers were encouraged to submit prototypes to be tried for possible amry use. In addition to the usual evaluation tests by the MVEE at Farnborough, such vehicles particapated in extensive annual trials in the mountainous districts of North Wales. The Bedford WD and the Guy Ant became successful contenders in those Welsh trials, but also participating in those were products of Austin and Commer. The Commer entry, know as the Beetle, managed to bring in an order for 400 units, but the Austin failed dismally.

Austin  15-cwt 4x2 truck

It was not surprising, of course, that with tha 15cwt project the Austin people endeavoured to land a lucrative War Department order, but having nothing to really base their experimental model on, it was risky. What the Army Wanted ideally, was a compact model that was assembled from the ovesize mechanical components then in production for the 2 and 3-ton trucks which was relatively easy for the leading commmercila vehicle producers of the day. But try Austin did.

In the trials, the Austin 10-cwt prototype manage the Old Horse Sheo Pass (with  a maximum gradient of 1 in 4,87) an the 1,5 milelong Bwlch-y-Groes (maximum 1 in 4) fairly well, but the wet and loose surface af Alt-y-Bady (maximum 1 in 3,38) stopped it, whilst all the others went past. The Truck had been hand-buil during the preceding months, borrowing components from the Austin Twenty car, which had a 3,4 litre six-cylinder engine with 23,5HP, straightforward 4x2 chassis on special wheel with Dunlop 9,00-16 cross coutry tyres, two seat open cab, wooden GS body with hinged tail and side boards. The cab ahad a folding canopy extendig over about two-thirds of the width, leaving the passenger uncovered. Aero screen for the driver, passenger had solid shiled in front of. In spite of its failing, the Ministry did actually purchase the Austin prototype. It was acquired und Contract V.2853, dtated 18th Jan 1936 and alocated census No. Z352609.

The Austin wins no prizes for its looks!

[Radek]

found pictures from this trials

Guy Ant

Commer

 

[early british ww2]

1 hour ago, Radek said:

Guy Ant

Hi Radek , This is the post trials production model of the Guy Ant 4x2 G.S truck I believe that only one survivor of this very early Guy from 1936/7 survives The reason being this truck had all the early bits incl Square fuel tanks and trays , later ones were round , it has the early axles and pre war Circlip type wheels and the bodywork had all manner of fluting in the panels to strengthen it which was later dropped 

[early british ww2]

1 hour ago, Radek said:

found pictures from this trials

Guy Ant

Commer

 

The Top pic is the Guy Ant prototype submitted for the trials Never seen pics of any of these in service  and the bottom pic is the Commer Beetle after field mods to fit a bigger radiator and nose  Later dropped for other trials and production vehicles and often confused with the Bedford MW

[early british ww2]

2 hours ago, Radek said:

Commer beetle

Both of these vehicles are Commer Beetle lorries The too is the prototype and the bottom possibly one of the 401 ordered by the army when the Commer won the title of approved 15 cwt army lorry which due to Commer withdrawing the beetle from production I think Britain’s made more beetle lorries than Commer did !! Just one so far survives ...

[Rootes75]

1 minute ago, early british ww2 said:

Both of these vehicles are Commer Beetle lorries The too is the prototype and the bottom possibly one of the 401 ordered by the army when the Commer won the title of approved 15 cwt army lorry which due to Commer withdrawing the beetle from production I think Britain’s made more beetle lorries than Commer did !! Just one so far survives ...

Any idea why Commer withdrew? Was it a War Office decision or Commer's decision?

[early british ww2]

7 hours ago, Rootes75 said:

Any idea why Commer withdrew? Was it a War Office decision or Commer's decision?

As far as I could find out it was Commer that withdrew as it wanted to concentrate on the armoured cars elsewhere in the rooted group and believe Guy helped this by giving over designs from its own armoured car with welded hull The trucks it was making for the raf were more or less civvi models anyway so easy to produce 

[Rootes75]

7 minutes ago, early british ww2 said:

As far as I could find out it was Commer that withdrew as it wanted to concentrate on the armoured cars elsewhere in the rooted group and believe Guy helped this by giving over designs from its own armoured car with welded hull The trucks it was making for the raf were more or less civvi models anyway so easy to produce 

That would make sense. Its strange that in the Commer books that I have there is no mention at all of the Beetle when talking about war production.

[early british ww2]

2 minutes ago, Rootes75 said:

That would make sense. Its strange that in the Commer books that I have there is no mention at all of the Beetle when talking about war production.

There’s hardly any material relating to them Even in the archives and IWM Believe me I’ve looked It just seems strange that they put a lot of effort into winning the 1935 trials and all for what ? So Britain’s could make more beetles than Commer did !?

[Rootes75]

On 6/20/2020 at 11:12 PM, early british ww2 said:

There’s hardly any material relating to them Even in the archives and IWM Believe me I’ve looked It just seems strange that they put a lot of effort into winning the 1935 trials and all for what ? So Britain’s could make more beetles than Commer did !?

Yes, your right. Go to all that cost and development for the Beetle then pull out? At the time Rootes were such a huge company I am surprised they decided to loose out on future contracts and the revenue from it.