Run a Diesel MV? read this for cheap fuel tax option

[da bomb]

You can run older diesel vehicles on SVO or Straight Vegetable Oil, most people (Civvie vehicle applications) usually run a mix of 40% diesel to 60% vegetable oil (Oil Seed Rape is the best as it doesnt cloud at low temperatures) without resorting to fuel heating systems.

The government got sick of trying to keep up with the administration of loads of 4x4 enthusiasts requesting excise paperwork (C&E Form 103) so they could run on Bio SVO and then pay the reduced rate of Bio fuel tax per litre on the SVO they used.

So Customs and Excise made it legal to use SVO up to a quantity of 2500 litres a year for each individual vehicle.

 

You can run on straight SVO, but on smaller engined cars there can be a problem with lift pumps being able to handle the higher viscosity, but most military diesel donks wouldnt think twice about it.

 

Another way of ensuring the viscosity is kept "Runny" is to add between 2 and 5% white spirit to the SVO and let sit for a week, it breaks the chains within the vegetable oil and makes it more useable in colder weather, the only downside is white spirit isn,t exempt from fuel tax, but i believe petrol has the same effect and is already taxed.

 

Apparently the cheapest method of purchase is via a Vegetable oil distributor in 1000 Litre containers, although on the Mitsubishi shogun forum i am also on, people buy cheap 1 litre bottles on offer and bung it straight in their motor!.

 

For those who are thinking "Thats going to bugger the engine" some owners have been running their vehicles for over 2 years doing high mileages solely on SVO and report a slight increase in performance (better Cetane values in SVO) quieter running (higher lubrication properties in the pumps), with no fouling problems. Some of these owners are using their vehicles under heavy towing loads etc.

 

For military vehicles designed to run multifuel i shouldnt think SVO would be of any concern at all.

 

The only fly in the ointment can be the initial use of SVO, as the viscosity is higher, it picks up particles in the fuel tank and passes them straight through to the injectors, so make sure the tank is clean prior to use.

 

The exhaust emissions are better as there is no mineral content in the fumes, just smells like you are cooking!

 

There is a number of websites dedicated to this sort of stuff, be aware the law only changed in April, alot of sites still mention the old Form 103 system, and there are the jump on the bandwagon make a fast buck sites that insist you should buy their oil pre-heating systems etc.

 

I know of a Leyland 680 powered vehicle that runs SVO exactly the same as diesel with no problems, so personally im sold.

 

Just need a Diesel powered Military Vehicle now!!

[Tony B]

Slight drawbacks. Vegtable Oil when used in catering is food, in UK Zero VAT. As soon as you use it in a vehicle it is non food and subject to VAT at 17.5%. if caught exceeding the allowances by the Customs & Excise, bearing in mind they can test at random and can enter premises WITHOUT a warrant, deep do-do. Waste vegtable oil is classified by EEC as hazardous waste and requires a permit to dispose of it. Honestly you couldn't make it up. Sunflower oil is the best it is so volatile when hot that mills preparing it are classified an explosion risk. There is a large factory at Woolwich which prepares vegtable oils, great fun when 180 tons of the stuff decides to go bang. Though most diesels will run on SVO bear in mind the calorie count is much lower compared to Straight Diesel, and as far as I know only Bosch guarantee their injectors with bio diesel or SVO. I did it years ago on an old single cylinder dump truck, mixed the oil with paraffin. It does work but without a lot of grief it is really only an option on multi fuel engines. Straight diesels will probably need the injection timing doing.

[Grasshopper]

My Dad has been running his fleet of old busses on SVO with no problems, and his 2002 Range Rover is also running nicely on it. Being a commercial operator, he gets his biodiesel from a registered outlet (which is coveniantly at the bottom of his road) so the duty is paid at the pump. The fuel has already had a couple of additives mixed in before being dispenced.

[Simon Daymond]

what does he pay per litre? Might get my boss to try some in the coaches, see if they bugger up before putting some in the Militant :-D

[Tony B]

Did try something similar on our fleet. the old Dennis no problems, the newer Evos and the Volvos. Well the recovery company declared a bonus. :shake:

[Simon Daymond]

perhaps I should get the recovery firm to put me on a retainer? :whistle:

 

Biggest fuel problem with have at the moment is the fact that every month the card company we use tries to stick the price sky high, then we ring them and it comes crashing down again, every month the same. We've tried other card companies and it's the same story. We reckon they bank on firm's not checking the price from one month to the next.

[Tony B]

About to upset Jack again. Try talking to the Bolivarian Government of Venezuela. Our Kenny has, they are now supplying cheap fuel to TFL. As they also tried to dump oremulsion of the CEGB some years ago, I'm waiting to see the air quality counts. the problem is whatever type of fuel, cost is reflected by the current fad. LPG is only cheap because of tax concessions, where as Bio diesel, which has all sorts of economic advantages attracts none.

[Tony B]

My Dad has been running his fleet of old buses on SVO with no problems, and his 2002 Range Rover is also running nicely on it. Being a commercial operator, he gets his biodiesel from a registered outlet (which is conveniently at the bottom of his road) so the duty is paid at the pump. The fuel has already had a couple of additives mixed in before being dispensed.

 

Ho Glasshopper, factory prepared Bio diesel is great stuff in straight injected engines. The problem seems to be with common rail and electronic injections systems, if the fuel burn doesn't push the right buttons on the sensors the computer throws a hissy fit and all shuts down. Ethanol is great substitute for petrol, Brazil has been using it for years. Eire did a lot of research adding LPG to diesel, a lot of vehicles there are LPG. The technology exists but until governments stop making stupid regulations about how emissions are measured and insist all new vehicles use catalytic converters there is no incentive for manufacturers to design vehicles to work on alternatives.

[Degsy]

Grasshopper, I would be very wary of running any Land Rover product on bio diesel as they say only 5% can be added, whilst I realise the RR is out of warranty I wouldn't like to get the bill if something went wrong.

[Tony B]

Land Rover and diesel have never been the happiest of partners. My Range Rover has a 2.8 Isuzu lump al-la Perentie. I dare say it would run SVO, runs on damm near anything else, but I think your right use the professionally mixed stuff. Pity there isn't more available.

[Grasshopper]

Grasshopper, I would be very wary of running any Land Rover product on bio diesel as they say only 5% can be added, whilst I realise the RR is out of warranty I wouldn't like to get the bill if something went wrong.

 

 

Not really my problem as its my Dads.....3 months on biodiesel and its still ok....his supplier is altering the fuel viscosity for the coming winter.

 

It's already had 3 front diffs in the 140,000 miles its done in its 5 years from new. Legendary Land Rover un-reliabilty lives on even in the newer products. Has also needed 2 sets of new injectors (before running on biofuel) when it refuses to start, usually after having just been driven.

 

I did read an interesting article on the development of the Land Rover TD5 engine, and they designed the injectors to run on the worst fuels available. The US Rangers run their Hi-cap TD5 based vehicles on aviation fuel, and have reported no problems.

[Poptopshed]

The tdi landrover engines which use Bosch pumps will run fine with Veg oil in the warmer months, but pre tdi engines with lucas pumps its not recomended.

For the winter a weaker mix of veg oil or pre heating is required. The best systems start and stop on diesel and use heated veg oil for the rest of the trip.

 

Grasshopper,

Has also needed 2 sets of new injectors (before running on biofuel) when it refuses to start, usually after having just been driven.

If the P38a is a pig to start when hot, its not usually the injectors at fault, its the pump. When hot and left standing the fuel in the pump gets hot and alters the viscosity, which the pump cannot handle. The trick is to carry a bottle of water and soak the pump, cooling it and then it will usually start. ;-)

[YK55]

Slight drawbacks. Vegtable Oil when used in catering is food, in UK Zero VAT. As soon as you use it in a vehicle it is non food and subject to VAT at 17.5%.

 

Not true. Since the 1st July 2007 you can use up to 2500 litres of vegetable oil per year as a 'fuel substitute' without needing to register with HM Revenue and Customs or paying any duty on it. You do not need to keep records. You do not need to do anything other than but it and tip it into your tank. If you don't believe me then contact HMR+C directly and ask them, they will even give you a reference number of your conversation.

 

 

[Tony B]

 

I do belive you, trouble is worked with VAT so know how sneacky they can be. The cheapest way is to go round the back of the local chip shop, but this is 'Waste product' etc etc. Unfortunatley there seem to bhe very few outlets for Bio disiel, not wholly convinced of SVO.

[Grasshopper]

 

Grasshopper, If the P38a is a pig to start when hot, its not usually the injectors at fault, its the pump. When hot and left standing the fuel in the pump gets hot and alters the viscosity, which the pump cannot handle. The trick is to carry a bottle of water and soak the pump, cooling it and then it will usually start. ;-)

 

 

Dads car is not a P38- it's the newer one and the injectors were replaced "in the field" (under warranty) by Land Rover assisst. on a third occassion it wouldn't start, it was due to being too near a radar installation. Towing it up the road cured this, I have read articles on newer cars that suffer this problem.

 

We used to own a bus which would not start when hot, and would only go if you soaked the fuel pump. not ideal when it's in service. A replacement pump cured that. We also had an AEC coach which went through fuel pumps when low sulpher diesel was introduced. Both vehicles had CAV rotary pumps.

[Tony B]

Not a lot has changed with the buses then. All engines should be allowed to soak for a couple of minutes before switching off. Very good advice given to me years ago first couple of miles steady in the middle do what you want, last couple of miles steady.