BRDM Driver Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 Afternoon All, Can anyone help me with Clansman wiring. I have a pair of 353 radios, a couple of CB2's an IB2 and a CBF. I have a load of new cables sets. I have one power cable, about a dozen harness cables and a few smaller multipin cables. Any pointers/diagrams would be appreciated. Cheers, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRDM Driver Posted February 16, 2013 Author Share Posted February 16, 2013 I found a load of stuff on a Ferret site which will probably help. Basically the big harness cables make a daisy chain with all the crew boxes and the IB2 sitting in the middle. Power goes to the IB2 and radio. The radios link to the IB2 with the smaller 4 core multi-pin cables. Correct? I have yet to find a list specifying the FV part numbers for the interconnecting cables though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andym Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 This is the information that most people refer to - it's written for an FV432 but the principles are exactly the same: http://www.ferret-afv.org/manuals/clansman_wiring_harness_and_control_boxes_description.pdf Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferrettkitt Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 I found a load of stuff on a Ferret site which will probably help. Basically the big harness cables make a daisy chain with all the crew boxes and the IB2 sitting in the middle. Power goes to the IB2 and radio. The radios link to the IB2 with the smaller 4 core multi-pin cables. Correct? I have yet to find a list specifying the FV part numbers for the interconnecting cables though. I think you will be lucky to find the right FV cables it might be a case of buying what you can and shortening longer cables to fit tidily. I think you might need three power cables one for the IB2 and one each for the 353's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRDM Driver Posted February 16, 2013 Author Share Posted February 16, 2013 And are the 7 pin cables (male-male) that go between the Tuaam and Arfat, special for that purpose or can any 7pin male-male be used? Likewise the 7 pin female-female to go between Radio and IB2? I have some cables with the right plugs but they are labeled up as going between CB2 and speaker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRDM Driver Posted February 16, 2013 Author Share Posted February 16, 2013 This is the information that most people refer to - it's written for an FV432 but the principles are exactly the same: http://www.ferret-afv.org/manuals/clansman_wiring_harness_and_control_boxes_description.pdf Andy Yes I found those manuals thanks Andy. Just trying to identify part numbers for all the interconnecting cables. There are diagrams with numbered cables but I have yet to find the FV numbers for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferrettkitt Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 And are the 7 pin cables (male-male) that go between the Tuaam and Arfat, special for that purpose or can any 7pin male-male be used? Likewise the 7 pin female-female to go between Radio and IB2? I have some cables with the right plugs but they are labeled up as going between CB2 and speaker. Most seven pin plugs are the same (male and female) and follow the same profile as the headsets and ptt's but I have seen a few odd ones that have different keysways or profiles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andym Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 I think that most of them are common, i.e. a seven pin cable is a seven pin cable. They don't cross the cores over as far as I'm aware. Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornishbloke Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 Hi I'm in the middle of sorting out the radio fit in my Scorpion. The basic harness is much as the Ferret site seems to show, although I had a problem downloading it. The only difference with mine is that I have a couple of three way junction boxes which allows the harness to mate into the radio sets. Imagine a T spur on the daisy chain. As far as I can see, there are enough power sockets onthe lower right hand side of the turret distribution box to run the IB and two radios, although the plugs are a bit special at the DB end. The other end is the standard 2 pin power fitting. I have seen 28volt splitters on ebay - they seem to be designed for Land Rovers, but I can't see that they wouldn't work in the Scorpion. Starting with the antenna base, you will need the feed that fits right up into the base and has a large plastic plug which screws into the rubber base and then the tail should be terminated in a ring which bolts onto the post of the VHF base element (the metal fitting which contains a small transformer I think). The next cable out is an RF cable with 2xBNC connectors. One goes onto the antenna element base and the other to the TUAM. There are three similar cables in the set up - Antenna to TUAM/TUAM to ARFAT/ARFAT to radio. You can make these with 50 ohm BNC connectors and RG58 cable. Incidentally the base element should be sandwiched between two rubber gaskets to stop water getting in. The cables from the TUAM to the ARFAT and ARFAT to radio are more difficult. I've just had a quote from Steve Marsh (C&S Tat Barrow on the EMLRA site) for them. He does seem to have the correct leads, so I'd be tempted to contact him. You will then need to look at earthing the boxes and radios. I've just upgraded the harness to ANR and all the boxes came with earth straps, but there are special contacts on the TUAM and the radio. I'm still playing with the layout - trying to fit the boxes in the most ergonomic place and also trying to match the holes in the turret to the placings. The fixed harness is more or less sorted - I struggled to get the CBF in a position where the big, curly lead wasn't bent around on itself. It's a bit like a jigsaw puzzle! Hope this helps Richard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g0ozs Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 Richard, All I have never found a 12 pin cable with different keying or less than 12 cores - so I think all of them are interchangeable for harness, ARFAT or RT322 use. All the 2 pin power cables are the same. There is one thing to watch out for with e-Bay purchases - there was a 2/3 size version used with some hardened computers which is indistinguishable in photos without any other objects for scale. I have some to this day as a result ! The 10 pin CPU curly cable is I think universal - I have found they fit everything from ULS16 3 line extension units to French BX-33 ATUs (TUUAM equivalent for their TR-PP-13 PRC-77 clone). There are at least two different non mating key designs for the 7 pin audio and TUUAM-ARFAT cables. As far as I know the audio and TUUAM-ARFAT 7 pin are the same but I will check the keyways to be sure and post a correction tomorrow if I have to. The non-mating ones I have found were used with data terminals - the Trend 813 printer and the teleprinter sockets on the Adapter Telegraph Radio were among the odd ones out. Given that there is potentially 80 volts on the ATR output in high voltage mode when used with a T100 printer it probably makes sense to be incompatible with the radios ! What has caught me out - with audio compatible plugs on usually male both ends cables - is ones intended only to power ancilliary and test equipment from a headphone socket. These only have the ground and power pins connected and there was one with every test set condition, test set audio, and probably other test sets as well. Next time I find one by accident I should make a note of the NSN ! Regards Iain 73 de G0OZS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRDM Driver Posted February 18, 2013 Author Share Posted February 18, 2013 Thanks chaps. Slowly collecting all the clansman manuals I can find! The cables I got appear to be some kind of complete install kit, but not sure what vehicle. This is what I have: FV 745857/1 TT BOX - 8 ring terminated wires with bulkhead grommet FV 745779/10 IB2 to RJB 2 way power lead FV 167997/11 N 2 cores no connectors 12 pin to 12 pin link cable mounted on L-brackets CB2 (F) TO CB2 ® 12pin CB2 (F) TO CB2 (D) 12pin CB2 (F) TO CB2 ® 12pin CB2 ® TO LSA 12pin CBF TO CB2 (D) 12pin IB2 TO CBF 12pin IB2 to LSA 12pin SECURE SPEECH TO REMOTE RCDM 6 way with mounting kit long (Remote Control Deviation Monitor) SECURE SPEECH TO REMOTE RCDM 6 way with mounting kit short CB2 REAR TO PRESSEL SW REAR 7pin CB2 Front TO PRESSEL front 7pin LSV TO CB2 (D) 7pin So any clues to what this lot would normally go in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRDM Driver Posted February 18, 2013 Author Share Posted February 18, 2013 Hi I'm in the middle of sorting out the radio fit in my Scorpion. The basic harness is much as the Ferret site seems to show, although I had a problem downloading it. The only difference with mine is that I have a couple of three way junction boxes which allows the harness to mate into the radio sets. Imagine a T spur on the daisy chain. As far as I can see, there are enough power sockets onthe lower right hand side of the turret distribution box to run the IB and two radios, although the plugs are a bit special at the DB end. The other end is the standard 2 pin power fitting. I have seen 28volt splitters on ebay - they seem to be designed for Land Rovers, but I can't see that they wouldn't work in the Scorpion. Starting with the antenna base, you will need the feed that fits right up into the base and has a large plastic plug which screws into the rubber base and then the tail should be terminated in a ring which bolts onto the post of the VHF base element (the metal fitting which contains a small transformer I think). The next cable out is an RF cable with 2xBNC connectors. One goes onto the antenna element base and the other to the TUAM. There are three similar cables in the set up - Antenna to TUAM/TUAM to ARFAT/ARFAT to radio. You can make these with 50 ohm BNC connectors and RG58 cable. Incidentally the base element should be sandwiched between two rubber gaskets to stop water getting in. The cables from the TUAM to the ARFAT and ARFAT to radio are more difficult. I've just had a quote from Steve Marsh (C&S Tat Barrow on the EMLRA site) for them. He does seem to have the correct leads, so I'd be tempted to contact him. You will then need to look at earthing the boxes and radios. I've just upgraded the harness to ANR and all the boxes came with earth straps, but there are special contacts on the TUAM and the radio. I'm still playing with the layout - trying to fit the boxes in the most ergonomic place and also trying to match the holes in the turret to the placings. The fixed harness is more or less sorted - I struggled to get the CBF in a position where the big, curly lead wasn't bent around on itself. It's a bit like a jigsaw puzzle! Hope this helps Richard Hi Richard, I'd be interested to see where you are fitting all your boxes. What radios are you putting in? I have 2 353's at the moment, but I might add a DMU. Do you have the shelf that the radio mounts bolt to? I'm missing that and I'm not quite sure what I should be looking for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRDM Driver Posted February 18, 2013 Author Share Posted February 18, 2013 Well thanks to a diamond geezer, I now have the correct cable lengths and part codes for the CVRT turret wiring. I have also read that according to Clansman Radio Control Harness manual 61172 that the 7 pin audio leads have 6 cores and the 7 pin radio leads have 4 cores so there is a difference. So the cables should be as per sketch: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferrettkitt Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 [quote name=g0ozs;356349 What has caught me out - with audio compatible plugs on usually male both ends cables - is ones intended only to power ancilliary and test equipment from a headphone socket. These only have the ground and power pins connected and there was one with every test set condition' date=' test set audio, and probably other test sets as well. Next time I find one by accident I should make a note of the NSN ! Regards Iain 73 de G0OZS I'll sort you out with one set of numbers and I have a pile as well :-( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlienFTM Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 SECURE SPEECH TO REMOTE RCDM 6 way with mounting kit long (Remote Control Deviation Monitor) SECURE SPEECH TO REMOTE RCDM 6 way with mounting kit short These two items relate to a Clansman-based BID (British InterDepartmental) radio set that replaced the BID 150 based on the Larkspur C42 that remained in service after Clansman had been introduced (the Clansman replacement was not released until Clansman "for everyone" had been rolled out). As you might gather, BID was scrambled. There was a bolt-on to the front of the C42. Open it up at midnight, remove yesterday's Hollerith-style punch card and replace with today's. These cards were designated SECRET both before and after use and apart from the card in use, remained secure in a safe physically attached to the vehicle along with a magazine of 9mm rounds to be broken out to protect the vehicle in the event of an assault by peace protesters (the only live rounds on exercise, to avoid any nasty accidents). Only a very select group including the Adjutant, RSO and RSS had keys or combination. At EndEx, each card would be individually signed back before being destroyed. Woe betide anyone who lost one. Nobody ever did. Allowed senior officers to chat without having to hide behind Voice Procedure, Batco, Mapco, Slidex, Griddle, Universal Griddle and all the various reports (SitRep, Locstat, LABdem, Contact, NukeRep*) etc. BID 150 was entirely physically separate from the Clansman setup so that there could be no inadvertent cross-over of secure chat over the normal insecure nets. (A benefit of a Larkspur BID setup was that the operator spoke into an enclosed mike rather than a boom mike, ensuring no proliferation of his voice into other mikes. I never saw BID employed below battlegroup (regiment/battalion) HQ level. always either in the CO's Land Rover or the Command Vehicles. Most certainly no place in a Scorpion. _____ * NukeRep, iirc a standard format report of a nuclear detonation, reporting detonation time, bearing, flash-to-bang time, etc. The form existed in case we ever had the misfortune to have to send one, but no mention was ever, ever made of anything nuclear either in clear or code in case Soviet intelligence gathering decided there really were nuclear weapons in use and it escalated. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Able_Archer_83 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRDM Driver Posted March 25, 2013 Author Share Posted March 25, 2013 Here are couple of pics of what I have so far. Not sure where the tuuam and arfat's go exactly and not sure what else is missing... 12 way tee box goes somewhere and I'm missing the smoke grenade box... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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