Enfield1940 Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 Was there ever a matching olive green cup for the above? I have never seen or heard of one - only black cups. I know commercial OG bottles + cups are now being made, but has anyone ever come across a genuine OG cup? Cheers, Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotch Harry Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 I have 3 or 4 of the Green bottles but have never personally come across a mug myself Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enfield1940 Posted September 14, 2012 Author Share Posted September 14, 2012 I have 3 or 4 of the Green bottles but have never personally come across a mug myself Thanks. The question occurred to me as I recently scored a mostly complete set of early 1958 Pattern webbing and I'm looking into the accessorisation. It seems to be a minor mystery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotch Harry Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 Thanks. The question occurred to me as I recently scored a mostly complete set of early 1958 Pattern webbing and I'm looking into the accessorisation. It seems to be a minor mystery. Aye,have noticed you have been snaffling up some nice webbing lately:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enfield1940 Posted September 14, 2012 Author Share Posted September 14, 2012 Aye,have noticed you have been snaffling up some nice webbing lately:) Thank you. One tries. If anyone is looking to sell, I'm still after reasonably tidy examples of the following early 1958 Pattern items: - Pair of utility straps - Large pack - Right-hand ammo pouch (first type with stiffeners in the lid) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotch Harry Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 Only recently after years of searching managed to find an early 58 Patt pack and it needs some work unfortunately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotch Harry Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 Thank you. One tries. If anyone is looking to sell, I'm still after reasonably tidy examples of the following early 1958 Pattern items: - Pair of utility straps - Large pack - Right-hand ammo pouch (first type with stiffeners in the lid) Problem is everything I see/watch,you win:nut::nut::nut::nut::-D:-D:-D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enfield1940 Posted September 15, 2012 Author Share Posted September 15, 2012 Only recently after years of searching managed to find an early 58 Patt pack and it needs some work unfortunately. I saw one at Beltring this year - £20 IIRC. One of various things I should have bought in hindsight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
34ba37 Posted September 15, 2012 Share Posted September 15, 2012 any body got a picture of a early 58 patt pack ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enfield1940 Posted September 16, 2012 Author Share Posted September 16, 2012 any body got a picture of a early 58 patt pack ? http://www.leemetford.com/patterns/1958/components/component_packs.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enfield1940 Posted September 16, 2012 Author Share Posted September 16, 2012 Thanks. The question occurred to me as I recently scored a mostly complete set of early 1958 Pattern webbing and I'm looking into the accessorisation. It seems to be a minor mystery. The offending items. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCA75 Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 Until i see one i will believe they are myth! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotch Harry Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 Same here:D:D:D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCA75 Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 Interestingly enough though my green waterbottle smells like something died inside it.:shocking: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enfield1940 Posted September 16, 2012 Author Share Posted September 16, 2012 Until i see one i will believe they are myth! I asked this on the wwiireenacting forum and one chap replied: "the elusive green 58 pattern water bottle and mug combo did exist! Back in the late 60's when I was in the ACF I 'liberated' a set from a cadet in another unit (The KRRC cadets at Westminster) during a 'Tough Training' weekend down at Lulworth Cove in Dorset. The KRRC detachment received a lot of support from 4 RGJ (V) including OG combats and '58 pattern kit". Interesting. But where are they all? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdbikemad Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 I have two green bottles but no green mug........even the Karkee Web website conveniently doesn't refer to the green mug....only the bottle in its 58 section........:undecided: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
34ba37 Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 http://www.leemetford.com/patterns/1958/components/component_packs.html thanks, great link Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enfield1940 Posted December 13, 2012 Author Share Posted December 13, 2012 I've since managed to acquire a couple of examples of the OG bottles and the colour variation of the bottles and caps is quite interesting. The left hand one is 1962 dated and maker marked 'Cascelloid' and 'Cascaflex' on the base. Interestingly, Cascelloid was the company that gave the world the Action Man doll: http://www.museumofchildhood.org.uk/collections/british-toy-making-project/toy-manufacturers/palitoy The other is 1964 dated and maker marked 'F&G'. (currently unidentified) Going by the Karkeeweb page, 1965 seems to have been the year they switched to black. The quest goes on to find a matching OG cup. There's limited anecdotal evidence they existed, but if so they seem to be Hen's teeth now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotch Harry Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 Youre lucky to have them with green lids,apart from 1 mine have the later black lids for some reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdbikemad Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 (edited) To add to this, I have just found a trial review from the Dec 1957 edition of Soldier Magazine showing the pre-production 58 pattern set undergoing trial alongside the Korean-era green combat clothing then undergoing evaluation for future universal temperate issue as combat dress......interestingly, the article includes the statement "a new plastic water-bottle which fits into the mess-tin and has a screw top and drinking cup was also on show"........was this referring to the green standard bottle, or, the rare trial rectangular waterbottle (as shown on the "Karkee Web" site), though this also mentions a drinking cup.......???? :undecided: I haven't tried it, but I doubt if a standard 58 bottle in green or black would fit-in smoothly to a standard set of mess tins (presumably to fit in the kidney pouches...???) The earliest production 58 items all seem to be from 59 onwards........??? Edited December 13, 2012 by wdbikemad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enfield1940 Posted December 13, 2012 Author Share Posted December 13, 2012 It sounds more like the experimental one to me. Perhaps when that fell through they decided to make things simpler and designed a bottle and mug of roughly 1944 Pattern dimensions, but made of plastic? One minor oddity I forgot to mention: the '62 dated one fits an ordinary 90's dated black mug I have, but the '64 dated one is noticeably smaller. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdbikemad Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 I would find it personally rather odd to have a green bottle and a black cup.....though admittedly, the bottle and mug are made from different plastics............the bottle is more a "polythene" composition, as found on "Airfix" model figures of the 60s and 70s, whereas the cup is a far harder resin-type plastic..........maybe they could make one in green but not the other...? (though I would find this hard to fathom)........ Additionally, the green is arguably more "tactical" than the later black, so the changeover to the latter still mystifies me..... I'm never one to completely dispel the idea of a green mug, but an example of the genuine article would be the ideal to resolve the myth........ The MoD probably have a hangar full of the things somewhere....! :-D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdbikemad Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 I might add that my selection of green 58 waterbottles, all with green lids, came from Sabre Sales in Southsea in the last 2 years.......they were in a amongst a huge sack full of the things in the cellar below the main shop.......the majority were the later black variety but I grabbed around half a dozen green ones (and left behind several more).......but on checking the same sack a few months later all the remaining green ones had gone......:-D No mugs though in green, despite an extensive search......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enfield1940 Posted December 16, 2012 Author Share Posted December 16, 2012 I'm never one to completely dispel the idea of a green mug, but an example of the genuine article would be the ideal to resolve the myth........ Alternatively a pre-1965 dated black mug may suggest green ones didn't exist? (Although I think that's unlikely) More idle theorising: perhaps there was some sort of design flaw with the green mugs that meant they got broken very easily and hardly any have survived? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdbikemad Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 Alternatively a pre-1965 dated black mug may suggest green ones didn't exist? (Although I think that's unlikely) More idle theorising: perhaps there was some sort of design flaw with the green mugs that meant they got broken very easily and hardly any have survived? A good point.....I must check any black mugs I see !! I note that Survival Aids seem to do / did do a complete green 58 bottle and mug, complete with the "idiot" heat warning advice cast on the sides.........:-D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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