Series 3 Lightweight 24v FFR Winterised

[Rover8FFR]

Well I brought the landy back home today with the help of Alan Bucknall (SAS Pinkie fame) with his Beaver Tail truck.

 

The trip was un-eventful apart from the odd stop to check rag tops coming loose and door tops swaggering under the buffeting!

 

The landy is now home and the first task is to establish history as it is suspected to be ex-Marines or Para's, which would be nice and definately determine the level of cost and resource spent as this one is quite far gone, but not beyond the point of resurection!

 

I guess what I am saying or asking is. Just how rare or special are 24v FFR winterised lightweights???

 

It would be immense if given the possible regiments it was ex-Fauklands???? That is if any came back? If anyone knows how this is traceable regarding ERM's then please let me know.

 

The future of this landrover starts here now and lets hope that its future is just around the corner. Don't think I am looking to use as spares as I believe this one may be an old piece of coal waiting to become a diamond.

 

The ERM is in my signature if anyone has access to particular data!

 

Regards

Edited July 7, 2010 by Rover8FFR

[Rover8FFR]

Doing some curious rubbing with wire wool and WD40 so as to slightly remove older paint I found some markings on the bonnet.

 

Can only read some of it but it suggests 3 Commando???? Any ideas anyone.

 

Also appears that the old Land Rover oval was removed. But I thought the number plate went there? There appear to be a couple of grommets in the lower tailgate with some sort of socket for a push in fixing??

 

Also are the mudflaps as shown genuine or replacements given the cutting out around lifting eyes.

Edited July 7, 2010 by Rover8FFR

[fesm_ndt]

thats a really nice or should I say interesting example.

 

Winterised is quite rare. I rebuilt one in the UK 2 years ago and drove it accross Australia.

 

Seems odd the numberplate on the RHS, may have been done in service, maybe not.

 

The lower tailgate hole is for the numberplate light as that hinge thing is so the number plate hangs down, whilst the tailgate is open. (never really used as plate was normally on LHS)

 

http://www.land-rover-lightweight.co.uk/Winterised.html

 

also http://lightweightlandroverclub.org/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1599&p=12528&hilit=winterised#p12528

 

Do you have the manuals, as I still got in softcopy

 

I love Lightweights,,,,, great Land Rovers

Edited July 7, 2010 by fesm_ndt

[Rover8FFR]

thats a really nice or should I say interesting example.

 

Winterised is quite rare. I rebuilt one in the UK 2 years ago and drove it accross Australia.

 

Seems odd the numberplate on the RHS, may have been done in service, maybe not.

 

The lower tailgate hole is for the numberplate light as that hinge thing is so the number plate hangs down, whilst the tailgate is open. (never really used as plate was normally on LHS)

 

http://www.land-rover-lightweight.co.uk/Winterised.html

 

also http://lightweightlandroverclub.org/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1599&p=12528&hilit=winterised#p12528

 

Do you have the manuals, as I still got in softcopy

 

Thanks for that I haven't got manuals at all for this one, but have put my name down for a copy of Mark Cooks book, which is believe to be a sort of bible.

 

Thanks for info on tailgate, but haven't seen that detail on other Lightweights?? The images I have seen have the number plate on the right but the number plate light was upside down beneath the ERM lighting up, which must have filled with water?????

 

As the oval was there then it may have been possible the ERM was on the left.....

 

More scraping and removal of old paint will probably reveal something.......:shocked::shocked::shocked::shocked::-)

[fesm_ndt]

Tailgate is fairly normal, which is good as can be a pain to find when you want one. The wiper motor cover is very rare. I see the steering cover is missing, what about the under bonnet tool box and wheel arch.

 

Those wing boxes, I only see them on the navy or marine variants...... just my observation as not as common as other boxes.

 

[ATTACH]30657[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH]30656[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH]30658[/ATTACH]

[Rover8FFR]

what about the under bonnet tool box and wheel arch.

 

Those wing boxes, I only see them on the navy or marine variants...... just my observation as not as common as other boxes.

 

 

Tool box is missing but I do have one for my Ser2a FFR Rover 8 so first one ready may inherit that. Failing that very simple construction and could get one made up. The rear wheel arch boxes are one either side where each 12v battery goes as the space between the seats is for the arctic heater set up. (missing).

 

This arrangement does suggest that is was either Marines or Para's. I am pinning my hopes on Marines Cammando Artic Warfare and possible 3 Commando that were in Falklands. All supposition at the minute, but I can get partially excited for now?????

 

Cheers

[fesm_ndt]

I am fairly certain one of the guys on the Lightweight forum has one or we have a big thread on it so should be helpful.

 

Sent some piccies of commandos in a Lightweight with the same numberplate location

[Rover8FFR]

I am fairly certain one of the guys on the Lightweight forum has one or we have a big thread on it so should be helpful.

 

Sent some piccies of commandos in a Lightweight with the same numberplate location

 

Did receive those via eml thank you. Another forum to look at till the wee hours......I am going to need shares in 'Ovaltene' or Doctor 'Boddingtons' elixir of life.....'hick!' :beer:

[ruxy]

Obviously RM 3CDO , a search will probably reveal disposed of by private auctioneers at Aston Down or Kinross during 1992 when the RM received blocks of 90". There were a few scattered in other regiments , the RAF had quite a few but mainly as hard-top , it seems loads of variations across all arms.

Once in private ownership the winterized stuff seemed to soon be removed. Few left complete but there are a few around with kits disposed off in 1992 - kits are unobtainium so you will have to collect bit by bit, actually new steel rear battery boxes for FFR versions still keep turning up on eBay !!

The correct heat exchanger - watch eBay - they do come up.

I don't know of a FFR L'wt winterized fully kitted still but there are quite a few still around , obviously waste of time raising to full spec. unless you are going to get a Unitary Kit & a amount of radio gear (you could go for Larkspur but plenty of cheap Clansman would also be in keeping for truck age).

 

So THIS ONE - for a "diamond" - realistically you need a FFR donor not hacked & sound in the important tinware (they do exist) BUT - I would go for one with a knackered chassis (minimum est. £1000). new chassis (about £750) but at least you know it is sound.

 

A truck this age would have a underwing toolbox (underbonned type from about 1979/80).

There were in fact 4 qty. slightly differing lower tailgates (yours originally would have had the No. Plate on a hinged flap).

 

Mud-flaps are genuine Nil Rover No. (they have a NATO number though) - John Richards has some (expensive for what they are £30+)

 

That type of radiator blind is rare (2nd I have seen) - the bar across the dumb-irons - uncertain.

 

All in all - quite and expensive project by time you get to the tilt having all the trimmings , .

Edited July 7, 2010 by ruxy
spelling

[Rover8FFR]

Obviously RM 3CDO , a search will probably reveal disposed of by private auctioneers at Aston Down or Kinross during 1992 when the RM received blocks of 90". There were a few scattered in other regiments , the RAF had quite a few but mainly as hard-top , it seems loads of variations across all arms.

Once in private ownership the winterized stuff seemed to soon be removed. Few left complete but there are a few around with kits disposed off in 1992 - kits are unobtainium so you will have to collect bit by bit, actually new steel rear battery boxes for FFR versions still keep turning up on eBay !!

The correct heat exchanger - watch eBay - they do come up.

I don't know of a FFR L'wt winterized fully kitted still but there are quite a few still around , obviously waste of time raising to full spec. unless you are going to get a Unitary Kit & a amount of radio gear (you could go for Larkspur but plenty of cheap Clansman would also be in keeping for truck age).

 

So THIS ONE - for a "diamond" - realistically you need a FFR donor not hacked & sound in the important tinware (they do exist) BUT - I would go for one with a knackered chassis (minimum est. £1000). new chassis (about £750) but at least you know it is sound.

 

A truck this age would have a underwing toolbox (underbonned type from about 1979/80).

There were in fact 4 qty. slightly differing lower tailgates (yours originally would have had the No. Plate on a hinged flap).

 

Mud-flaps are genuine Nil Rover No. (they have a NATO number though) - John Richards has some (expensive for what they are £30+)

 

That type of radiator blind is rare (2nd I have seen) - the bar across the dumb-irons - uncertain.

 

All in all - quite and expensive project by time you get to the tilt having all the trimmings , .

 

Thanks for that Ruxy but I guess doing these properly and getting the parts as and when they crop up is part of the journey and process. I have made contact to Pete Barrett at EMLRA regarding initial search through the club on history. Have you any thoughts on markings on bonnet that say 3 CDO???????????

 

I am working along the assumption at the moment that the history shows something interesting? It is worth saving and I will invest in a new chassis, bulkhead and vent panel. It will me a methodical process and I know it will take as long as it needs be.

 

Forgot to mention that the seat box and inside the rear body the panels seem to be covered with a thin gauge plastic/ fleecy backed type of material. Also the inside of the tailgate has thin rubber covering. Would this have been applied retrospectively??

 

I appreciate your comments as always and please keep contributing as and when.

 

Regards :-D:whentitsdone::help::readbook::dancing:

Edited July 7, 2010 by Rover8FFR
added detail

[theredkite]

Wayne

Not sure how useful this is, but your reg no is pretty close to my FFR Lightweight, 44 GF 32, which was produced in 1975 and apparently spent its entire life with the Royal Monmouth Royal Engineers (a unit name which sounds made up but isn't, also the only British Army unit to be Royal twice!)

I have epic quantities of books on the Falklands, when I get home I'll have a look to see if lettering on the bonnet like that was common.

Cheers,

Mike

[Rover8FFR]

Wayne

Not sure how useful this is, but your reg no is pretty close to my FFR Lightweight, 44 GF 32, which was produced in 1975 and apparently spent its entire life with the Royal Monmouth Royal Engineers (a unit name which sounds made up but isn't, also the only British Army unit to be Royal twice!)

I have epic quantities of books on the Falklands, when I get home I'll have a look to see if lettering on the bonnet like that was common.

Cheers,

Mike

 

That great....I know of that regiment as I live in Ross-on-Wye, just up the road from the Royal Monmouth RE Museum, based funnily enough in Monmouth. The numbers are close ish, but I have learnt that sometimes that can mean nothing over than mine was number 4,413 on GF and yours was 4,432. Funny old things ERM's. Mine has a confirmed manufacture date of 1976 on V5 which gave it an age related plate of 'P' reg???????

 

Appreciate any help on history though before Deepcut/ EMLRA search in case they come back blank

[ruxy]

I have 43 GF 07 off Contract WV.11706 as you will know , so the build spec. is known.

 

One thing you could do as a line of research is contact C.J. Williams Ltd at Aldershot , they manufactured the winterized kits and they did retain records of the VRM of trucks they converted. They have records of heat exchanger serial numbers supplied to MOD (not part of kit) - although of no use to you. Always good to know who did the conversion.

The lining fabric they advised me was "Plastazote" by Zote Foams, this was wrong although years earlier it may have been correct. What you have will be "Hardura" - good - there are two or 3 manufacturers , different thicknesses , I have samples and no problem getting.

 

The flooring mats on winterized are extra thick , ribbed switchboard type matting bonded to sheet "Sorbo" type rubber sheet about 5/8" thick - all no problem from Arco (as with the Dunlop Gacord 1" dia. rubber hose for heat exchanger). The tailgate rubber may be identical to switchboard matting in thickness (you don't buy it with the certification - that costs loads).

 

I am not up on markings , at least on RM you get more than Army.

 

You need to be brutal about this - you need a good donor for all the other difficult (and expensive) bits you need. You may be able to get a new bulkhead for about £600 , or a good one to re-build footwells (bits from Les Crome) - yours is well past it.

 

You need a vent panel , a copy could easy cost you £300 - you are better off with the real thing.

 

I know you can still get a good L'wt in bulkhead and ventpanel but in need of a new chassis and body all good for about £1000 - just a mater of patience. AND YOU TAKE A CHANCE ON ALL THE OTHER BITS THAT ARE OF VALUE.

In your case - you could get a good heater, two good genuine doors (copies are poor) , all good electrical 24 volt parts - you may find your main harness is damaged but get one for free (price a new one).

You will end up with another set of alloy panels - start unbolting and you will find dissimilar metal corrosion - you may soon be searching for better wings etc.

This is where the brutal bit enters , don't get sentimental about breaking Lightweights - they are not so rare, bide your time - you may get a winterized with cream crackered chassis and get all the winterized bits foc.

 

To be honest - I would not try and save this truck without scrapping another.

Edited July 7, 2010 by ruxy
spelling

[Rover8FFR]

I have 43 GF 07 off Contract WV.11706 as you will know , so the build spec. is known.

 

One thing you could do as a line of research is contact C.J. Williams Ltd at Aldershot , they manufactured the winterized kits and they did retain records of the VRM of trucks they converted. They have records of heat exchanger serial numbers supplied to MOD (not part of kit) - although of no use to you. Always good to know who did the conversion.

The lining fabric they advised me was "Plastazote" by Zote Foams, this was wrong although years earlier it may have been correct. What you have will be "Hardura" - good - there are two or 3 manufacturers , different thicknesses , I have samples and no problem getting.

 

The flooring mats on winterized are extra thick , ribbed switchboard type matting bonded to sheet "Sorbo" type rubber sheet about 5/8" thick - all no problem from Arco (as with the Dunlop Gacord 1" dia. rubber hose for heat exchanger). The tailgate rubber may be identical to switchboard matting in thickness (you don't buy it with the certification - that costs loads).

 

I am not up on markings , at least on RM you get more than Army.

 

You need to be brutal about this - you need a good donor for all the other difficult (and expensive) bits you need. You may be able to get a new bulkhead for about £600 , or a good one to re-build footwells (bits from Les Crome) - yours is well past it.

 

You need a vent panel , a copy could easy cost you £300 - you are better off with the real thing.

 

I know you can still get a good L'wt in bulkhead and ventpanel but in need of a new chassis and body all good for about £1000 - just a mater of patience. AND YOU TAKE A CHANCE ON ALL THE OTHER BITS THAT ARE OF VALUE.

In your case - you could get a good heater, two good genuine doors (copies are poor) , all good electrical 24 volt parts - you may find your main harness is damaged but get one for free (price a new one).

You will end up with another set of alloy panels - start unbolting and you will find dissimilar metal corrosion - you may soon be searching for better wings etc.

This is where the brutal bit enters , don't get sentimental about breaking Lightweights - they are not so rare, bide your time - you may get a winterized with cream crackered chassis and get all the winterized bits foc.

 

To be honest - I would not try and save this truck without scrapping another.

 

Fair comments Ruxy and understood. Thank you

[Rover8FFR]

 

 

 

Took some more progress photos after some cleaning down and stripping to reveal some tidy straight panels. That is once all the leatherette effect vinyl covering had been removed. The covering has preserved the condition of the panels quite well especially in the rear.

 

Door bottoms are quite straight and no major rust in frame. Even rotten doortops unbolted!

 

Bulkhead and Chassis are useless but I knew that.

 

Wiring loom is in good overall condition and all running gear is fine. Looks like the wings and bonnet will scrub up okay too!

 

Uncovered more of the old paint and text from the bonnet. Any ideas anyone on the Red/Blue block.

 

Regards

Edited July 12, 2010 by Rover8FFR
typo

[Rover8FFR]

For those interseted I attach further images close up of the bar that supports or doesnt support the rad blind when rolled up?

 

Answers on a Post Card!

[ruxy]

Have a look at the details on Dave's (Disco2003) website.

 

http://www.land-rover-lightweight.co.uk/WinterisedA.html#New

 

My blind of same style, has a metal strip approx. 1" x 1/8" section across the dumb-irons - pop-riveted in situ. along with the canvas straps & brass buckles to furl it up when not in use.

 

Probably similar stowage , but could be used with other styles if high & low level hooks had been fitted on the grille-panel , it could then possibly have been used to hook the tension springs on.

 

I think there was a S3 with similar dimensions to the S2A blind , alternatively the other S3 blind could be used , this was used on civvy style bodywork (there was a couple of threadbar / rods for high/low blind positions - these were secured with hex. nuts between the inner wings).

[Rover8FFR]

looked at Disco Daves site and the images are different to my lightweight, which creates more interest on the normal detail for a series 3 or series 2a or the crossover???

 

there must be someone out there who worked on these in the MT and knows the difference.

 

I remember Rich Farrant was helpful on Reme stuff for my Rover 8. Perhaps a PM to him might prompt him to input on this lighty?

 

I keep searching but the info on these lightweights is quite rare, albeit Ruxy has suggested a contact at the winterised conversion contractor!

[ruxy]

You are a lot nearer to the RM Museum than I am - perhaps you will beat me there to follow the line of research , I would like to make a appointment to review photographs. I have a note somewhere , info. from Mark Cook suggesting the files to request in advance.

 

I have more or less drawn a blank on in service photographs to date off the internet , this is what is now required for the radiator blinds.

--------------------

Pro-Tech Precicion (C.J. Williams) advised (letter 8th May 1992) that they did not convert my Rover, heat exchanger (Ser. 03616) was supplied August 1988 , this vehicle to have been converted by the Army after 1988.

This style of radiator blind is by MOD , the drawing they supplied is for the hook type (my truck has never had grille hooks fitted) :-

Enclosed is a typical Radiator Grille Blind drawing, this is the only type supplied as additional equipment. The modified tilt and flaps are not of C.J. Williams supply.

 

There is possibility of a few dp schemes :-

Arctic white

white/black

black/green

black/green/white (apparently - paint half the green white for 1/3,1/3,1/3

[Rover8FFR]

You are a lot nearer to the RM Museum than I am - perhaps you will beat me there to follow the line of research , I would like to make a appointment to review photographs. I have a note somewhere , info. from Mark Cook suggesting the files to request in advance.

 

I have more or less drawn a blank on in service photographs to date off the internet , this is what is now required for the radiator blinds.

--------------------

Pro-Tech Precicion (C.J. Williams) advised (letter 8th May 1992) that they did not convert my Rover, heat exchanger (Ser. 03616) was supplied August 1988 , this vehicle to have been converted by the Army after 1988.

This style of radiator blind is by MOD , the drawing they supplied is for the hook type (my truck has never had grille hooks fitted) :-

Enclosed is a typical Radiator Grille Blind drawing, this is the only type supplied as additional equipment. The modified tilt and flaps are not of C.J. Williams supply.

 

There is possibility of a few dp schemes :-

Arctic white

white/black

black/green

black/green/white (apparently - paint half the green white for 1/3,1/3,1/3

 

Sounds like we have some legwork between us to bottom this archive trail out. You say I am closer? Where is RM museum situated?

 

Regards

[ruxy]

http://www.royalmarinesmuseum.co.uk/index2.html

[Rover8FFR]

Just had a reply to an enquiry made to Defence Estates and Support.

 

I guess this is the same info that EMLRA would obtain from Merlin Management Information.

 

My LTWT was first asigned to 29 CDO Regt RA, which supported 3 CDO Regt.

 

Following that it was asigned with UK Land Forces Command Support Group.

 

My next step is to get in touch with Deepcut as DE&S have confirmed that the information is held at RLCM Deepcut.

 

Apparantly 29 CDO Regt we tasked with 3 Cdo so that might explain why 3 Cdo is on the bonnet unless that was for when it was cast / auctioned.

 

[theredkite]

29 Commando Light Regiment, Royal Artillery, was very much part of 3 Commando Brigade. Just prior to the conflict they'd returned to the Citadel, Plymouth, from Norway with their 105mm light guns. 7 Battery nearly fired on an advanced party of 2 PARA at Fitzroy and Bluff Cove, and later on at least one gun from the regiment was moved up to Bluff Cove. Two batteries from the regiment also provided gunfire support for 2 PARA's assault on Wireless Ridge. Hope that's a help, Mike.

[Rover8FFR]

What I really want to know is if 29 Cdo and my vehicle were at Theatre in 1982 The Falklands.

 

I know that 29 Cdo were as well as 3 Cdo. Deepcut searce required me thinks.

 

State of the chassis and bulkhead would suggest this thing has been in salt water at some point!

 

Cheers

[Rover8FFR]

Did some more poking around over the weekend and was hoping for some assistance regarding the coolant hoses configeration.

 

The old feed from the back of the block has a blanking plug fitted where it would have come into the footwell area.

 

The top hose from the rad to thermostat housing is missing but the bottom of the rad to the block appears to be a 'U' turn unless there is a T piece missing where the return from the winterised heater between front seats ran back to rad bottom but had a T link to the side of the water pump (dizzy side).

 

I have attached some photo's as an illustration to all this diction!

 

Anyone help please?

Edited August 16, 2010 by Rover8FFR
added image