Pardon.

[Mark]

I stand humbled

[Guest matt]

Hi Snapper,

 

A very good post indeed. the main point regarding the pardons is we need to show forgiveness and attempt to understand why those shot for desertion decided to desert. When someone reaches a point where they cannot carry on in their present situation,but likewise cannot escape it they tend to do one of two things,run away or commit suicide. during WW1 and in every conflict both before and afterwards troops have done this,indeed several of the British troops who have died in Iraq did so through "self inflicted wounds". There is no way of telling exactly what one person can take and another cannot,and fortunately most of us will never have to experience anything like the battlefields of WW1 in order to find out.

 

My great great grandfather survived WW1,he was in the Staffordshire Regt,and my great uncle was a Japanese POW on the Burma Siam railway,he too survived but suffered a mental brakedown shortly after returning to the UK.

 

Perhaps the government do have an agenda which they believe will be helped by granting these pardons,but if they do does it really matter? the majority of those pardoned deserve it. Will the pardons being granted make me vote for loony Tony and his cronies? not a chance!

 

Matt.

[Snapper]

I think a sense of forgiveness is the most important motive because there is never much of it about. I think you are right - these men deserve it on that basis. I believe there has been a tendency to mix a pardon with an apology. The first is obviously symbolic while the latter is not ours to offer in truth - a bit like Bristol and the slaves, to my mind. There should never be an apology to the Shot at Dawn men in my view - because it would be totally meaningless and we would never stop apologising after that for everything done by this great nation of ours and I think we live in a political age where the PR fuelled rush for a collective mea culpa by our masters is a slur on our ancestors and us. In the end all history is written to please the modern age of the time. Shakespeare knew what he was about just as much as Livy and the likes of Cornelius Ryan. They knew their audience. Pure truth is always the loser because much of it gets left behind - it is inevitable as much as deliberate. WW1 has passed into a semi-mythological state of lions, donkeys and a collective calvary - I've seen it from Verdun to Plugstreet and it breaks my heart. So the 300 out of a million Brits should perhaps be allowed to sleep with less pain. I always liked the way Lyn Macdonald opened "Somme" with My Name Is Legion - For We Are Many. There are, perhaps, no finer words. And what tabloid editor has rushed round to the likes of Henry Alingham to ask him what he thinks of all this? None. We don't need to know. When we are much older men we will see versions of our history which seem as strangers to us. I am 47 and decrepit enough to see how events I lived through have been revised for the modern audience. It is, therefore, very important that forums like this one allow a group of generally likeminded people to discuss these issues in addition to the colour of wheel-nuts, in a proper manner. All power to it.

[Degsy]

I feel the last three posts sum things up perfectly perhaps it's now time to let the men and this subject rest in peace.

[hardyferret]

I've shut up and sat back and listened to well contructed arguement and drivel

 

How anyone can compare the events of 1914 to the troubles and bloody sunday beggars belief

 

1, 1914-1918 -conscript army often poorly trained and equipped poorly led

 

2, Paddy land- professional army with resources

 

this will do to start before we compare terrorist (sorry freedom fighter must be pc) to conscripted soldier

 

A blanket pardon is not on it insults those justified in having their case re-examined and being pardoned and makes a mockery of the judicial systerm in place at the time.

Is it even practicable to really do justice with the evidence we have now?

There is a case in re-examining all cases but properly so justice is done or to leave sleeping dogs.

I feel as others do...Mr Blair what a nice way of catching another front page for a little outlay as there is no one who was there left to argue the toss

 

Am I just being cymical again????????????????

[Snapper]

I can only speak for me - but i don't think there was any intention to compare the men of 1914-18 with the case of Bloody Sunday and the casualties of that terrible day. I think it was meant as a comparison of enquiries and revisionism which are thoroughly in vogue much to my own personal disgust. We all know, whichever side of the fence we sit on - that the Bloody Sunday enquiry has been completely dominated by the machinations of the IRA. It played into their hands entirely. Nuff said on that one. As for the question of the pardon - I am against a blanket one and have said so. A proper review is fair of the individual cases of particular men has merit - but I think it is too late and pointless as a pursuit of justice and good old British fair play we used to cherish in these islands. A genuine spirit of forgiveness is a lovely notion - but hopeless in our modern Britain, methinks; where criminals and morons hold all the aces in an increasngly useless, lawless State . There are far too many genuine and dodgy wrongs floating about that politicians and pundits are seeking to put redress for all kinds of reasons which all centre on taking your eye off the ball. So are you cynical? No. Not in my book.

[morris c8 fat]

:?They pardon those found guilty under the law of the time but hang our troops out to dry in their war for doing the job asked :argh: :? need any more be said