simon king

if you assume 2 litres of paint are needed it's about 150.........

They are. Got my example from Libor at Mirror Models a week or so ago - what with the forthcoming airborne jeep and 10cwt lightweight trailer from Bronco, modellers of 10cwt trailers have never had it so good.....

I scaled the dimensions up from the photographs - can't vouch for millimetre perfect accuracy but it must be somewhere near Overall width = 5.5", overall length = 15.5", overall height = 6.5" Made from timber 5.5" wide and 0.5" thick top sides and bottom = 4 lengths of 15.5", ends = 2 lengths of 4.5". These dimensions mean that the box could be made from a single 6' length of timber Metal angle ends = 6" long by 1.5" wide - bolt holes 0.5" from edge or 1.0" from corner I think there seems to be angle iron internally along the sides at the bottom - secured by 3 coach bolts on each side piece - at ends and middle - the end bolts secure horizontal angle iron internally and vertical corner angle iron externally. Presumably the tool box is secured by the four bolts to the neck through this internal angle iron. 5 inch hinges and the hasp was made by welding part of a hinge to cut-down and reshaped padlock hasp with a circular hole cut at the end of the slot for the standard early Land Rover padlock eye - or whatever it's called

There is a "new" picture of a jeep towing a 10cwt GS trailer on the British vehicles forum http://hmvf.co.uk/forumvb/showthread.php?34395-British-D-Day-markings

that a nice shot of one of the earliest British jeeps - it must be a script body without a jerrycan as the brackets for the 2 gallon cans - now bent and used for jerrycans - have been fitted to the angled part of the front wings. It's also another shot of a jeep towing a 10cwt GS trailer - which in itself is pretty uncommon.

David - I'm more than happy to be convinced otherwise, but..... The Databook of Wheeled Vehicles certainly illustrates the GS trailer with curved mudguards and the mortar trailer with flat angled mudguards so this might be the source of confusion - although one assumes that the flat mudguards were produced for a good reason - perhaps to allow things to be rested on them - is there any evidence of mortar trailers with curved mudguards? I acknowledge that pressed vs flat mudguards might represent early/late features for ease of construction but one presumes that both were drawn at the same time for the data book. The fact that mortar trailers and GS trailers were included in the same contract might result in the curious (and pointless) front frame extension seen on the GS trailers as that could allow the base frames to be standardised for both GS and mortar trailers with the raves being subsequently welded in place during production according to which type of trailer it was to be. Are the base frames the same and does the mortar trailer also have that second cross girder about 6 inches back from the front girder - some pictures seem to suggest that it does. Perhaps it was there to support the weight of someone man-handling the load out of the front headboard The databook also indicates that the only differences between the No1 and no2 GS trailers is that the No2 has solid sides and different sized tyres. It makes no mention of a larger carrying area, which it would probably do if the No2 GS trailer was actually a mortar trailer without the fittings and a rear tailgate There is no reference to No1 and No 2 mortar trailers in the data book. Furthermore it states that the mortar trailers were always fitted with the larger towing eye. You then have to question why the GS trailer body is shorter - is it really to allow the fitment of a toolbox along the neck? There must be a good reason why the GS trailer has a shorter body with the curious front frame extension Although the internal length of the GS trailer is listed, the internal length of the mortar trailer is not - so we cannot see if the difference equals the width of the front frame extension on the GS trailer. Happy to put a tape measure to my GS frame if someone wants to do the same to a mortar trailer Another feature is the crossbar seen on the mortar trailer handbrakes - why was that added? It doesn't seem to be seen on the GS trailers The old story of the more you know, the less you know...... sk

The Databook of Wheeled Vehicles certainly illustrates the GS trailer with curved mudguards and the mortar trailer with flat angled mudguards so this might be the source of confusion - although one assumes that the flat mudguards were produced for a good reason - perhaps to allow things to be rested on them - is there any evidence of mortar trailers with curved mudguards? I acknowledge that pressed vs flat mudguards might represent early/late features but one presumes that both were drawn at the same time for the data book. The fact that mortar trailers and GS trailers were included in the same contract might result in the curious (and pointless) front frame extension seen on the GS trailers as that could allow the base frames to be standardised for both GS and mortar trailers with the raves being subsequently welded in place during production according to which type of trailer it was to be. Are the base frames the same and does the mortar trailer also have that second cross girder about 6 inches back from the front girder - some pictures seem to suggest that it does. Perhaps it was there to support the weight of someone man-handling the load out of the front headboard You then have to question why the GS trailer body is shorter - is it really to allow the fitment of a toolbox along the neck? There must be a good reason why the GS trailer has a shorter body with the curious front frame extension Although the internal length of the GS trailer is listed, the internal length of the mortar trailer is not - so we cannot see if the difference equals the width of the front frame extension on the GS trailer. Happy to put a tape measure to my GS frame if someone wants to do the same to a mortar trailer Another feature is the crossbar seen on the mortar trailer handbrakes - why was that added? It doesn't seem to be seen on the GS trailers The old story of the more you know, the less you know...... sk

Mortar trailers have squared flat panel mudguards mudguard supports bolted to side raves front opening in place of tailgate - presumably to allow easy transfer of ammo no toolbox longer body bar through handbrake handle GS trailers have curved mudguards mudguard supports welded to side raves tailgate toolbox body shorter than frame plain handbrake handle Both were towed by carriers, and some mortar trailers were subsequently converted to GS trailers by adding a tailgate Both had the two types of hitch - early one with handles on neck and later one with handles as part of the hitch assembly Hope this helps SK

Currently on Milweb http://www.milweb.net/classifieds/large_image.php?ad=69002&cat=7 sk

I have now completed all the metalwork for the toolbox. Was the woodwork for the toolbox sawn timber or marine ply - I'm assuming the answer is sawn timber - but is that right? I've had to work out dimensions of the box from scaling up photos and using known dimensions such as the width of the neck of the trailer etc. The dimensions I have come up with will mean that the box can be made from a single 6ft length of 0.5" X 5.5" timber - which seems to be logical. (4 lengths of 15.5" for top, bottom and sides and 2 lengths of 4.5" for the ends =71") Is there any indication around of the contents of the toolbox - I'm assuming the following wheel brace spanner for hub cap screwdriver tin of grease spare tyre valves/valve caps Any information most welcome -Thanks In another development, I've also managed to fill another piece in the jigsaw. - replacement tilt rope hooks have been made at the local blacksmith - the skills are still out there if you look hard enough sk

Wolfy - pn sent I have used the lunette and rest of the parts from the old pintle assembly - only the housing is new build sk

Finally some visible progress - completed refurbed axle - in Frank Burbery Service Brown which will need repainting in accurate SCC2 Just picked up newly manufactured pintle mount - shown with rusted original. It was cheaper to get two made up but it's already spoken for. Just waiting for some new raves to be made up and then I can start repairing the frame. It should come together quickly (well relatively) after that sk

Thanks Wally-are there any pictures of these Canadian 10cwt trailers around? sk

Were these 10cwt trailers also built by the Canadians? I thought the Canadian 10cwt trailer was a very different beast

This might help http://mmpbooks.biz/mmp/tables/Vehicle_Names_V2.pdf sk

Interesting - as you say on the colour fans as a gloss it looks a completely different colour - much more chocolaty so we put it and Mike Starmer's SCC2 chip through the colour analyser and there is a 6.9% difference -whatever that may mean. Accordingly we ran thought the fans and BS4800 08C39 seems a better match at only 2% difference. We've added a touch of white and it looks to be in the right ball park.

Thanks All I shall go to my paint supplier clutching my copy of Mike Starmer's NWE/France book, ask to see a sample of BS381c No 499 Service Brown - and compare the two. If it's something like, I'll use that in the absence of a good ready mixed alternative. SK

thanks all - Frank's service brown is an odd colour - on it's own it looks brown but when you put it next to the jeep (which is BS298 as a proxy for SCC15) it actually seems quite green. Richard - thanks for confirming my own suspicions about Frank's Service Brown. Shame as it's an easy paint to apply and it has a nice consistent hard-wearing matt finish. Thanks also for that info on the match - I'll pass on Warpaint though - bad experience etc...... I'll try 499 Service Brown but it looks as if it might be easier to take Mike Starmer's book of chips to my local paint supplier and run it through the colour fans for a match after all. sk

Does anybody know of a source for ready mixed SCC2 Brown paint? Frank Burberry does a "service brown" paint - but when compared with the respected Mike Starmer colour chips - it just doesn't seems yellow enough. It may be of course there were variations Any advice welcome Thanks sk

Thought about that David - thought I'd wait to see quality and accuracy of any items before putting my name to them and offering them to others though. There certainly doesn't seem to be a one stop shop for these 10cwt trailers - although is there really the demand out there? - and what would people actually want and or buy? Pintle parts - first type? handbrake handle, swivel and crossbar handbrake springs? Wheel nuts? wheel studs? oil seals? kits to covert hubs/axles to more readily available internal lip type oil seals brake pads - new for old brake cylinder rubber boots? brake cylinders - the rod operated one and the other one? support legs? handles on the neck? bracket mounts for handles on the neck? pins for handles? pins for support legs? replacement raves? spring shackle bolts? spring bushes? replica trailer plates? axle floodlight plate on axle? wooden tool box kit of parts? woodwork kit of parts? reasonably priced tyres? frame repair sections? nut and bolt sets? carriage bolt sets? axle u-bolts? wheel bearings large and small? My own trailer needed/needs most of the above...... sk

There must be someone nearer who can do the job for you - the firm that did the wheel nuts for me had plenty of work on meaning that little jobs like mine always get pushed to the back of the queue. I'm finding this with the making of suspension shackle pins and other turned parts by the firm as well with the making up of replacement raves and replacement "girder and tube" type pintles by another firm. They say there's a recession on but these small companies seem pushed out with work. At the moment there's no hurry - but........... The only alternative seems to be to get a large number made up - but can't imagine the demand is there to say have 100 studs or so made up Both of these firms are within half a mile of me in a small market town in the East Midlands so there must be plenty of similar small companies within a short distance of yourself - it's just a question of searching the internet and directories to find them. I've actually enjoyed this part of restoring the trailer - so different from picking up the phone to a jeep supplier and getting the part tomorrow. sk

The studs are not like that - they have two lips on either side that fit into a recess around the circumference of the hub. The whole is then locked in place by the drum . In addition to the 6 holes for the studs, there are the two tapped holes for the countersunk screws that hold the drum to the hub. You can see all this on the attached photo. The pull rods are/were circular section rod sk

The other, often overlooked, source of leaks is the aperture where the fuel pump arm passes through the side of the block. Oil will track down and appear to be coming from the timing chain cover or sump gaskets. Check the integrity of the gasket and the tightness of the two bolts that attach the fuel pump to the block, The trick with the bolts is because it is impossible to get a normal size socket onto the bolt, instead use a 1/4 drive socket and ratchet with an extension bar. Alternatively you can do what REME used to do which was to use a hacksaw to cut a slot in the head of the bolt and use a screwdriver. I thought the drain bolt on the bottom of the fuel filter bowl had a pipe thread and no washer or gasket- but may be wrong. Is that the problem - or is it the bolt on the top of the filter? I used pipe sealant(got mine from Frosts) on all such places - and touch wood - have had no problems One final point - have you got a pulley guard fitted - and if you have, are the spacer washers fitted between the pulley guard and the sump - if not you cannot tighten that front row of sump nuts sufficiently. The spot where the timing chain cover gasket meets the sump gasket at a right angle is always worth extra attention as well......

Thanks for that - helps considerably. Same thing happened to me with the wheel stud - and others were bent. Not the end of the world. First of all you need to separate the brake drum from the hub - there are two screws in the front of the drum. These may take some time to undo - mine needed repeated applications of Plus-gas and heat - applied from front and rear for a month or so. Once those two screws are removed, it is possible to separate hub and drum. Now you undo the nut on the back of the stud on the rear face of the hub. The stud can then be drawn out from the front of the hub. They are locked in place in the hub by the drum - so you need to remove the drum before extracting them. It's then a case of taking the studs to your local friendly machine shop to get some more made. I was lucky in that I was refurbing my axle using the best bits of two axles so I was able to recover enough from the four hubs to give me two good sets. Wheel nuts may also be difficult to source - in the end I had them made. External lip oil seals as used in these trailers cost an arm and a leg. Once you reach that stage, I simply changed from external lip to (considerably cheaper and more readily available) internal lip - polishing up the surface of the ring that fits on the axle tube to avoid damaging the oil seal - driving the internal lip seal into the hub - rather than driving the external lip seal onto the ring that slips onto the axle tube. Hope this helps sk

can somebody tell me the length of the support legs on a GS (or Mortar) trailer - as I need a couple. Also, do the tubes for the support legs that use pins to secure them rather than screws have something that blocks off the top to stop the ingress of water - or is there just a drain hole in the centre of the bottom plate as they're open to the elements with the holes for the pins anyway? Thanks sk