fv1609

Not this particular investigation Wally.

This particular investigation was not focussed on piston failure, but another issue as "engine outputs were boosted and higher altitudes encountered".

Ah sorry, this is from a 1945 intelligence report of what was discovered at the Junkers plant in Dessau. It states the single cylinder tests were carried out in December 1944.

Richard I can't see the test sheet.

Good thought Pekka but not that.

Not that high up Wally.

Yes Wally, this was what it was all about. It was an attempt to achieve that by a particular means.

Good bit of googling & although based on Jumo 223 this experiment was on a 1-cylinder engine!

Well as there is no Dad's Army this Saturday, here is a little teaser. These are the results of German research in WW2, something that the Allies apparently knew nothing about. I have googled various bits of the answer & there seems to be nothing about this wartime research out in the internet.

Yes you are right, I have that book as well, it is silly mistake as the original promotional literature some 3 years earlier was using the name Shorland. It is strange as RE Smith was a most knowledgeable writer & a prolific photographer of the 1960s-70s at arms shows & official events leaving a valuable photographic legacy of British Army vehicles that were in service, about to go into service or didn't quite make it into service. I always delight in seeing his photos illustrating vehicles of the time in their intended roles.

This is what I ordered on 2mm brass

I've bought brass plates from them. Not cheap but high quality & good co-operation in getting what I needed.

Yes on the floor & on the seats. This 1971 RAC publication is the only place I can see any reference to using this protection. There are pictures around of stripped down SWB Land Rovers in NI with sandbags on the floor, but not actually on the seats. NITAT literature & the Land Operations series make no mention of the practice. Although stripped down Land Rovers are suggested for ease of disembarking, good visibility although the vulnerability had the effect of keeping the crew alert. Land Operations - Counter Revolutionary Operations were based mainly on experiences from Aden & Palestine, there were issued in 1969 & updated in 1970 & 1973 for NI. Not well proof read as for example we have a Shorland called a Shortland captioning a picture of a Mk 1 Pig & the "Shortland" is then illustrated with a picture of a Pig.

Richard I have a number of development & technical documents for SWD Stages 1 & 2. It is mentioned briefly here: http://hmvf.co.uk/forumvb/showthread.php?17955-Non-Lethal-Conflict

Chris thank you for those. Nice to see gloss DBG without the embellishment of too much red paint, indeed confined to the nuts on the studs of the divided rim wheels as they should be. A few red hubs there, originally intended to signify Birfield joints fitted due to a shortage of special steel from Germany as 104 Mk 2s did not receive Birfield joints & had to survive on rebuilt Chobham joints & even Tracta joints recovered from GS Humbers. (Not as one SITREP describes Tractor joints) Not seen 05 BK 06 before but someone got carried away with the red paint. I have seen a few so painted, was it just something done in idle moments, but I would have thought just keeping the external surfaces painted was a big enough task? Or did it mean that a red seated vehicle had some special (command?) role so that troops running to embark their Pigs with doors open not able to see the registration plates could identify it? The Mk 1, by a process of elimination, must be 31 BK 00. There were webbing straps provided on the front wing for carrying a camo net, but I suspect could also serve to carry the canvas from the roof. Judging by the continuity of the surface on this & the earlier pictures these would be right size for a folded canvas, but not useful to carry around in an IS situation. But I'm now sure they would not be limply filled sandbags. As there is no O/S rear antenna mount on the Pig to the right of 31 BK 00 it is probably a FV1611, although if it was a FV1612 it would be FFW but not FFR. The taking of all these pictures of vehicles in isolation shows remarkable dedication & forethought, a valuable archive. So often pictures show chaps standing proudly in front of their vehicles but often obscuring details & particularly the registration plates.

Chris thank you very much for sharing those & letting us savour the detail. This brown on gloss DBG is extraordinary for an urban situation. I have a few examples in colour pics, but without your commentary there would be others unidentified if its in B&W. Strangely the Commer water cannons Triton 1 & 2 did also sport this scheme. I have never knowingly seen it in other theatres but it was one of several unusual paint schemes described in a 1971 RAC manual. Of course during the 70s there was considerable turbulence in the ideas of how to move away from plain DBG before the eventual adoption of NATO IRR Green. What is that on the N/S wings of the Mk 1 Pigs? Sandbags? But why not on O/S as well? Although looks a sort of saggy canvas, not good with incendiaries. 31 BK 00 was being used by the Parachute Rgt in IWM Ref 70/29/3 in agreement with your date of 1970 I assume. 13 BK 06 appears in British Army in Ulster Vol.1 Page 214. It acquired a 3-bar ram (not adjustable & a poor mimic of the type used by the RUC RF) & can be seen in news footage of Bloody Sunday. 09 BK 75 I see still has a pre-NATO tow hitch. Moving onto the Mk 2 pics. Excellent detail of the mesh hoods which seem to have been very short lived. The white board on the O/S wing is very mid 70s. Presumably it was a safety-visibility precaution. Was it actually white or silver (as in the aluminium paint inside) was it wood or metal but clearly a similar size the the registration plate on the N/S? 23 BK 25 appears in British Army Equipment Page 22 They are very much of the mid-70s as you say, because of the position of the wing mirrors halfway down the engine covers. The EMER to move the mirrors to the front of wing was issued in May 1977. Incidentally is that the edge of a Piglet on the left? Any pictures of that? So the colour ones please when you can.

Bored never! Chris oh yes bring them on please. Mk 1s in 1969 ooh. Always looking for pictures of mine 28 BK 08 & 27 BT 95 (yes BT)

Nigel 21 BK 96 was like all 1 Ton Humbers originally soft skinned & in this case a FV1601 delivered to 21st B Vehicle Depot Feltham on 11/10/54, Contract No. 6/V/27455, Receipt Voucher No. FTM/R/3245, Engine No. 7858 Unlike the Pigs that started to be made in 1959 yours was not made into Pig. However in the period 1962-3 it was made into a Hornet FV1620 & was struck off census on 22/10/70 On a date unknown it was recovered by 18 Command Workshops, then went to CVD Hilton on 6/12/73, then VSD NI 12/2/74, then HQ APC Admin Staff NI 20/3/74, then struck off census at disposal sales 6/9/92 It was converted (body transplant) to a Pig & up-armoured in Op Bracelet that ran from Sept 1972 to June 1973. So when it arrived at Hilton it was already converted presumably at Bovington. It would be interesting to see if it still has the same engine which would have been a B60 Mk 5F not a 5A as originally. It is widely held by various authors, no doubt influenced by the EMERs, that state 5A. But they are wrong you should still see the engine plate showing 5A but it should be over-stamped as 5F. This indicated that the original Generator No. 1 with a measly 12A output was replaced by the Generator No.9 which was a 100A alternator. I would be interested to see if much in the way of internal fittings remain as a lot of stuff had to be jammed around dash area & whether the alternator is still there. If it was it would explain why HQ Admin bagged it. Why take the body off an existing Pig? Why not get that going? Well of the 200 Pigs recovered for Op Bracelet many were in a poor state & Op Marble to assess the time taken to make them serviceable showed that Pigs were taking twice as long than anticipated & many had not had scheduled upgrades that were laid down in the EMERs. So automitively a Hornet used by an elite Airborne unit (Para Sqn RAC) only a few years before would be in a better state than the average Pig recovered from a scrapyard. Reading the SITREPs of the time there was a desperate shortage of Pigs & parts that could be cannibalised. With the wheel stations failures alone meaning at any one time 80 Pigs were out of commission needing these rebuilt. So a very intriguing history that must be unique.

There's not a lot I'm afraid Chris, but here you go:

Nigel can you post some pictures up especially of the cab controls, the engine bay & chassis plate please? Are you aware that this vehicle is very rare & if not unique in its history? I think I came across the owner 30 years & he sent me a copy of the record card, but I never actually saw the vehicle.

What was the military registration of your Rover?

As one exclusive restaurant near me once said "If you need to ask the price, you can't afford to eat here"

I have FV16 & I have a Pig. The lock barrels that fit mine would fit any other vehicle using a Switchboard No.1 Some Humbers have in the CES Simple Equipment "For replacement demand - Keys Blank to FV series of lock barrel and to Part No. LV6/MT13/87149"

I have just looked at my lock. Above the key hole is 16 & below is the lock number which tends to be only one or two digits. PS Looking at yours suggest it might be in the FV7 key series, which I've not seen before.

Yes Ian I think so, I have never seen anything other than FV16. Although there is a commercial FV series akin to FP, FS etc it bears no relationship to the FV16 series. I wasn't able to find out the actual pattern but a key cutting man at a show looked around his less common keys & was able to cut a spare for me. The genuine key I have in front of me is marked Made in England, Union on the other side Wilmot Breeden. Then stamped in the middle FV16 then below that in a frame the actual key number is stamped.