richard hulme Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 Ever since I have owned my Dodge, its Transfer box has always been noisey, really noisey! I know they don't run silent but mine sounded like it was about to explode and a grating, rumbling sort of way. I took the box off, refurbished it by replacing all the bearings and oils seals, reset the shims and attached it back onto the vehicle. upto about 25mph silence, then after that the noise rumbles in.... Took it back off and double checked everything, all OK. Someone suggested the gears could be worn out, so I removed the centre idle gear before re-assembling the box. Behold, silence! Not even a whisper of rumbling - it must be the gears, I thought! So I bought a second hand transfer box that the previous owner (and good friend) knew to be OK, stuck it on my Dodge and after 25MPH CLATTER, CLATTER RUMBLE GRATE...... So I ran it for a while with my old "non idle gear" box (and therefore no 4X4) until someone got it stuck in some soft mud, this convinced me to re-assess the transfer box.. I bought a reconditioned unit from a very well know and respectable Dodge parts supplier, I have put that on, all my hopes were dashed when at 25MPH CLATTER, CLATTER RUMBLE GRATE...... So what am I doing wrong? I use Comma Oil EP90 as the lubricant, is this correct? I have noticed that the transfer box makes the noise below 25mph IF you are about to stall and the engine is juddering. Any help would be appreciated, and thank you for reading this far down! Regards Richard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markheliops Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 Hi Richard. Not sure about your Dodge but the t-box in my Ward has always sounded like it is going to explode since I have owned it. It has worried me every time I use it but to this date (famous last words) it hasn't let me down. As for the lubricant - I use EP90 as well. The Ward transfer box states the lubricant should be straight 90 oil. This has something to do with yellow bronze components within the t-box. Normal EP90 can damage the inner components. This has been a frequent question asked by MV owners. Tootallmike and I looked into this in depth and yes, EP90 can by all accounts damage yellow bronze components - however we also came to the conclusion damage was most likely to happen when the vehicle was parked up for long periods and whilst covering high mileage. It has somethinhg to do with when the oil is stationary and cooling, a certain chemical reaction takes place with the EP part of the oil. (Techno buffs feel free to explain further). We decided to use EP90 because it is much cheaper (straight 90 is 3 times more expensive and the advice is to change the oil every 1000 miles) Works out kind of expensive on the Ward La France. We also decided to change the oil every season and in doing so lessen the opportunity for damage to occur. Now I can not state using EP90 will not damage the yellow bronze components but to date we have had no problems using a more modern oil. Markheliops Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard hulme Posted February 24, 2009 Author Share Posted February 24, 2009 Glad to hear the oil is correct, and that EP90 is OK to use. As far as I am aware there are no bronze parts in the Dodge Transfer Box. Thanks for the prompt response, it is much appreciated. I have just been re-reading through some of the tech manuals and have noticed a bulletin TB 9-808-8 is specifically directed toward transfer box noise, does anyone have this Technical Bulletin? Regards Richard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markheliops Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 Hi Richard - The use of EP90 in the gear / t-box is not technically correct but it is what I use. I have no doubt others on the forum will warn you of the dangers of using EP oil in a historic vehicle. I can not tell you either way as I have no knowledge of Dodge, only Ward La France. I suspect your manual should say use straight 90 oil. Markheliops Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Johns Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 (edited) Start with the obvious, you are running in 2wd rear drive on the road, 4wd lever in forward position, my Dodge made similar racket when I broke a rear prop yoke?? and had to drive home on the front axle, the transfer box made a hell of a racket. A common cause of juddering on the transmission at low speed is oil on the hanbrake band, causing it to grab on, have you checked that? Are all the prop shafts in good order, drive flanges tight, uj's and slipjoints ok, are the uj's aligned on the short shaft between g.box and transfer, have you tried running with front prop removed? to see if has any effect Edited February 24, 2009 by Nick Johns Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard hulme Posted February 24, 2009 Author Share Posted February 24, 2009 Thanks for the rsponse Nick, starting with the obvious: Running in 2WD on the road - YES! 4WD lever in forward position - YES! Transmission juddering - NO! (I just added in that if you purposefully vibrate the engine, the transfer box seems to make the rattle) Prop shafts - ALL replaced, the short shaft is Brand new, please expand on UJ;s being aligned on the short shaft. Fornt Prop Shaft removed - Will try tomorrow! Thanks again for your help! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Johns Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 Prop shafts - ALL replaced, the short shaft is Brand new, please expand on UJ;s being aligned on the short shaft. Fornt Prop Shaft removed - Will try tomorrow! Thanks again for your help! The two yokes on any propshaft should be in alignment to run in balance ie. the yoke on the fixed part should align with the yoke on the slip joint Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard hulme Posted February 25, 2009 Author Share Posted February 25, 2009 (edited) WOW! That did it, the rear prop shaft was 90 degrees rotated. Lined it up and the noise has now been reduced by 90%! Of course it still makes a little noise but I assume this is to be expected, it says so in the manual. Thank you very much for your guidance on this Nick, its is really appreciated! Regards Richard. Edited February 25, 2009 by richard hulme Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markheliops Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 Another happy customer. Must try that on the Ward but I think everything is lined up ok. Well done Nick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abn deuce Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 So Richard H. is that noise reduction at all speeds? and has that stopped the juddering in the trans as well ? While it may have been in hind sight a simple problem I can see how it could have caused lots of trial and error fixes so We can all learn the lesson you had to learn the hard way . Glad Markheliops saw the thread and had the fix.:coffee: :tup:: By the way has anyone had this on other model MV's ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markheliops Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 I would love to take the credit for the fix but Nick Johns can have this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard hulme Posted February 26, 2009 Author Share Posted February 26, 2009 So Richard H. is that noise reduction at all speeds? and has that stopped the juddering in the trans as well ? While it may have been in hind sight a simple problem I can see how it could have caused lots of trial and error fixes so We can all learn the lesson you had to learn the hard way . Glad Markheliops saw the thread and had the fix.:coffee: :tup:: By the way has anyone had this on other model MV's ? On the first test run the results were: from 0 to about 32Mph there appears to be no transfer box noise at all (where before there was), then as power is applied above 32Mph there is noise (but normal sounding noise not exploding gears noise), when maintaining speed there is noise (again, normal sounding), when slowing or coasting there is hardly no noise. Yes, hindsight is a wonderfull thing, I replaced the intermediate shaft with a brand new one after it exploded on the A63. It was after this I decided to give the transmission an overhaul so refurbished the transfer box, then the front shaft and rear shafts as they were the only thing left that could be causing noise after having replaced the transfer box twice more and some time after replacing the clutch, gearbox and rear diff.... But I now remember the shafts were off a WC54 which has a longer rear shaft and I now also remember just changing the splined end as the UJ was in much better condition. I think it was at this stage I must have got the alignment wrong. The juddering doesn't actually occur, I just noticed that if I artificially induced a stall, the juddering caused by the engine actually amplified the transfer box noise, even at low speeds. Full thanks to Nick for leading me down the path with a new set of eyes!! And to all at HMVF for operating this forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abn deuce Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 My mistake Mark , I didnt re-read the thread before I posted .Still interested in the other answers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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