Stormin Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 Following on from John's work on his brakes I'm just starting to attack mine on the Ward La France. Anyone know of a source for the diaphragm's in the U.K.? Or am I going to have to order from Army cars in Holland? Any idea of costs? Going to hit hard with the weak pound if I have to order from abroad! Only tested some of the rear chambers so far and they seem to work but I'm not really keen on relying on 60 year old rubber. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.O.S. Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 I got some from AC - I think you will be pleasantly surprised at the cost, speak to Richard there. I'm pretty sure Tootallmike sourced some over here - try emailing him. I haven't had a chance to check availability over here but will need some soon for another vehicle, so please let me know how you get on. Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 Mikes front diaphragms were sourced here (possibly at W&P show). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
42 chevy Posted December 5, 2008 Author Share Posted December 5, 2008 My brake diaphrams showed up yesterday. They are Bendix and are new not NOS. If you need help let me know. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.O.S. Posted December 5, 2008 Share Posted December 5, 2008 John, if you could furnish a bendix number for fronts/rears I would be grateful. Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
42 chevy Posted December 6, 2008 Author Share Posted December 6, 2008 The Bendix numbers are; Front 200278, Rear 201271 and front dust boots 201687, the rear dust boots are obsolete and I do no think they are reaaly neccessary since the rod faces down. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormin Posted December 6, 2008 Share Posted December 6, 2008 The Bendix numbers are; Front 200278, Rear 201271 and front dust boots 201687, the rear dust boots are obsolete and I do no think they are reaaly neccessary since the rod faces down. John Thanks John. I'll make some enquiries with these part nmubers soon. I agree about the rear dust seal, they only appear to be a simple rubber washer anyway, so not to hard to find a replacement. Tony, Do you know for sure that these Diamond T part numbers are the same for the Ward La France? Seems strange that two trucks of very different weight rating use the same axles and brakes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
42 chevy Posted December 6, 2008 Author Share Posted December 6, 2008 Norman; just some observations looking at your pictures. 1) you have more gussetting on the rear part of the frame then I do and and 2) you have an additional torque rod attached to your reduction units 3) the axles look close. Now a Diamond T 980 has larger axles than a 969A. I have attched some pictures, the first is a 969A axle, the second is a 980 axle and the last three are a ward LaFrance (btw, I was going to buy the Ward LaFrance pictured but it would not fit in my shop) John Gott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
42 chevy Posted December 6, 2008 Author Share Posted December 6, 2008 Norman; The front axles look similar on the Diamond T and Ward, however the rear looks bigger. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.O.S. Posted December 6, 2008 Share Posted December 6, 2008 OK guys, DT969A and Autocar U7144T use same front axle, Timken F-2090-W-73. WLF front axle is Timken F-3200-W, a heavier unit. Rear axles are all different. With regard to brakes however, both DT, Autocar and WLF appear to use the same rear brake diaphragm chamber, a Westinghouse Bendix Type B having dia. 9 3/16". The DT and Autocar both use Type E front diaphragm chamber, dia. 6". Norman, the WLF uses a conventional piston/cylinder type front actuater, dia. 4 1/2" - not a diapragm type. So you may need to source N.O.S. kits for these, unless we can trace a current part number from the USA? Conclusion? John's rear diaphragm Bendix part number should be good for all three trucks, and the front should be OK for the Autocar. :tup:: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Farrant Posted December 7, 2008 Share Posted December 7, 2008 Conclusion? John's rear diaphragm Bendix part number should be good for all three trucks, and the front should be OK for the Autocar. Tony, Just a random check on 201271 shows it still having a military stock number. The following link gives alternative part numbers from other suppliers as well; www.tpub.com/content/logistics/25/30/76/00-737-7783.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.O.S. Posted December 8, 2008 Share Posted December 8, 2008 Tony, Just a random check on 201271 shows it still having a military stock number. The following link gives alternative part numbers from other suppliers as well; www.tpub.com/content/logistics/25/30/76/00-737-7783.htm That is an amazing site, Richard - how on earth do you drive and steer the beast? Had a go at looking up the front diaphragm 200278 and just get bits of sewing machine :-D :confused: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Farrant Posted December 8, 2008 Share Posted December 8, 2008 That is an amazing site, Richard - how on earth do you drive and steer the beast? Had a go at looking up the front diaphragm 200278 and just get bits of sewing machine :-D :confused: Tony, Check out this one, I put the boot number up and this is the result; www.bendixvrc.com/itemDisplay.asp?documentID=2716 It may be of use for reference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
42 chevy Posted December 13, 2008 Author Share Posted December 13, 2008 Finally got the brake chambers done. Tear down, bead blasted, painted, new diaphrams installed and new boots on the front chambers. The last couple of pictures are of the old diaphrams. John Gott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Posted December 17, 2008 Share Posted December 17, 2008 Looking good John! Following this thread with great interest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormin Posted December 17, 2008 Share Posted December 17, 2008 Ordered my diaphragms for the rear chambers on the Ward La France from army cars in Holland. Total cost for four was 60 Euros. Now I just need the use of a blast cabinet to get them looking as good as yours John. Have you stripped the actuation valve yet? I'm just about to tackle that next whilst I wait for my diaphragms to arrive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
42 chevy Posted December 17, 2008 Author Share Posted December 17, 2008 Norman; I did tear down the activation valve , along with the relay valve and the 2 check valves. They were a little mucky inside. My activation valve has a steel diaphram. I stress that my brakes worked before the tear down, if you were not careful you would put yourself thru the windshield:shocked:, however, reading the TM:coffee:, it calls for an annual inspection of the components. I do not want to take any chances with a 22,000 pound truck. As a side note,I have found out thru my education of airbrakes:idea:,(getting my commercial drivers permit with air brake endorsement and "on the job training" that these early design brake activation valves give the operator "No feel", unlike when you push a brake pedal on a coventional hydralic brake system and you get feedback. So now, I gently activate the brake pedal. Also, I going to use 14 ply highway tread design tires on the front axle, as I feel I will get more life out of them over NDT's. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
42 chevy Posted December 17, 2008 Author Share Posted December 17, 2008 Adrian; I thought my truck was big, well my is the little brother compared to yours. Actually, you gave me the inspration to "split my cab", after reading you blog. I was glad I did as you can see from my pictures. I like how the land Rover tail lights look on your mudguards. I will be adding some additional lighting on the rear as I will be keeping the original lighting. John l Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormin Posted December 22, 2008 Share Posted December 22, 2008 John, Did you have to source a diaphragm or rebuild kit for the brake relay valve? If you look at mine pictured on the Ward La France restoration it's in a horrible state. Do you know of part numbers for the relevant bits for this relay. Great looking job so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
42 chevy Posted December 22, 2008 Author Share Posted December 22, 2008 Norman; I will have to pull out my TM to check part numbers. Are you sure that your truck has the same relay valve as mine. I will have to look at your picture again. Try contacting Jaap Rietveld at: jacob.rietveld@pandora.be He is checking on a rebuild kit for my relay valve and a spare compressor. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
42 chevy Posted December 22, 2008 Author Share Posted December 22, 2008 Norman; Just looked at your picture again, it looks the same as ine. Have you pulled your valve apart yet? I just gave mine a good cleaning, the diaphram was o.k John. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormin Posted December 23, 2008 Share Posted December 23, 2008 Thanks for the e-mail link John. I'll give them a try. May also try army cars again in Holland, but it's not easy purchasing from them. Think there could be variation in the valves "crack pressure", the point at which they start to operate. I think I'm right in saying this is controlled by a load sensing device on modern trucks but just by the internal springs in the valve on ours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
42 chevy Posted December 23, 2008 Author Share Posted December 23, 2008 Norman; you are correct, the spring tension is set at the factory and the TM states not to change it, the same applies to the brake activation valve spring. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormin Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 John Just out of interest, did you paint the inside of your brake chambers? Got mine stripped down ready for clean up and paint. Not sure whether to paint the inside for corrosion protection. Sounds O.K. on one hand but not sure whether it'll encourage the diaphragms to stick to the insides of the chambers. I suppose electroplating might be the best solution and overpaint the outsides. Any other opinions welcomed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
42 chevy Posted January 2, 2009 Author Share Posted January 2, 2009 Norman; I did paint the inside of my chambers. During tear down, I found that they had been painted a red oxide color. If you look at my pictures, you will see that some were rusted on the inside (on the push rod side). I think it is important to have the bellows installed on the front chambers, as it keeps the dirt and water out (my originals were dry rotted and torn). On the rear, the bellows are really not neccesary, as the rods point downward (Anyways, they are not available anymore) I painted my chambers with 2 coats of primer and 2 coats of OD. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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