42 chevy Posted November 2, 2008 Share Posted November 2, 2008 I am looking for new diaphrams for the air brake chambers, and the rubber boots that go over the rods on the front axle chambers any leads would appreciated. If nothing is available, does anyone have a cross over reference for new brake chambers? Thanks John Gott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.O.S. Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 If you have the part number John, I can check against Ward laFrance ones. These are available in Europe as either N.O.S. or new items. But in any case I'm sure these will be available in USA through any truck / construction plant components distributor. Just give them the O.D. and number of holes, and :banana: (This refers to the diaphragms, I've not tried for the boots yet) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
42 chevy Posted November 3, 2008 Author Share Posted November 3, 2008 Thanks; I will forward the part numbes when I get home. The diaphrams are extict over here, as the parts suppliers only carry the new type of diaphram. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kpu121265 Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 I have some of these, and some new chambers as spares. Let me know if you get stuck. Regards, Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
42 chevy Posted November 3, 2008 Author Share Posted November 3, 2008 Ken; I am checking with BSC (Brake Services Company, located in Atlanta, Georgia (USA). They might have diaphrams. My brakes work but I would like to rebuild them and put fresh diaphrams in. I will keep you posted. Thanks john Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
42 chevy Posted November 3, 2008 Author Share Posted November 3, 2008 I spoke to Rick at BSC and gave him the 2 diaphram part numbers, 201271 (rear) and 200728 (front), he knew 201271 off the top of his head. He told me he would check his warehouse tommorow after he votes, yes the US election is tommorow (finally no more adverts to listen to on the radio) and he will let me know. I still will need the bellows (dust boots) for the front and rear chambers. The front bellow goes from 1 1/4 inch diameter down to 1/2' inch diameter. I did not get a chance to check the rear chambers. I will keep you posted Thanks for the replys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
42 chevy Posted November 3, 2008 Author Share Posted November 3, 2008 I forgot to post the boot part numbers, here they are: Bendix Westinghouse boot part numbers 201687 (front) and 210893 (rear). Thanks John Gott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
42 chevy Posted November 4, 2008 Author Share Posted November 4, 2008 Pulled the front chambers off and tore them apart. I am glad I did, there was a bit of muck in them. Pictures attached. The little guy in the pictures is Andy Gott, age 10, (future owner of the truck:)) using his Dad's Snap On tools,:sweat: he then helped me blast the chambers and then he painted them. John Gott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.O.S. Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 John - if you are still having trouble might be worth contacting www.midwestbrake.com - they offer to make bespoke air brake cyl. diapragms from a special 2 ply 3,000psi burst press. ptfe material, using an old one as pattern, or from a drawing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
42 chevy Posted November 4, 2008 Author Share Posted November 4, 2008 however he did have torque rods and he would let me know about costs. johnGott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
42 chevy Posted November 4, 2008 Author Share Posted November 4, 2008 My previus post got lost in hyperspace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
42 chevy Posted November 4, 2008 Author Share Posted November 4, 2008 Ok, I was able to locate new Bendix diaphrams and dust boots from Rick at BSC, should arrive in 3 weeks. I did try kevin Krouland at Army Cars USA (no luck) but he did have torque rods, as I would like a set of spares. Got to build up the spares inventory so my son has some parts when he needs them in 30 years:idea: John Gott N.O.S., thanks for the leads Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
42 chevy Posted November 10, 2008 Author Share Posted November 10, 2008 A suggestion to all who have air brakes. Check your chambers and associated valves (check, relay, quick release...) A good cleaninfg could be in order, along with replacing some diaphrams. You do not want to take a chance with these heavy trucks when it comes to brakes, since these trucks do not have spring brakes, if you loose air, you looose brakes......... I will post pictures soon of my R&R of the brakes. John Gott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormin Posted November 10, 2008 Share Posted November 10, 2008 I think Tootallmike has a good conversion on his Ward LaFrance which originally has basically the same air brake system as a Diamond T. He's converted to twin air circuits and put at least some spring brake chambers on. May not be original but what price safety. Think I'll be taking a view on what's actually needed parts wise for my Ward LaFrance. It may even make more financial sense to go with a modern brake set-up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.O.S. Posted November 10, 2008 Share Posted November 10, 2008 I think Tootallmike has a good conversion on his Ward LaFrance which originally has basically the same air brake system as a Diamond T. He's converted to twin air circuits and put at least some spring brake chambers on. May not be original but what price safety. Think I'll be taking a view on what's actually needed parts wise for my Ward LaFrance. It may even make more financial sense to go with a modern brake set-up. Not quite, Norman. TTM has dual diaphragms in his brake cylinders (a spacer with separate air inlet pipe and second diaphragm makes effectively two cylinders one on top of another), and a separate air tank and dual circuit foot valve, so is a Dual-circuit system, but they are not spring chambers. I'm looking at the possibility of spring brake chambers but not easy due to lack of "headroom" for cylinders. On a Scammell Constructor for example it is easy to put an extra brake actuating lever and spring chamber on, which is what I'm trying to scheme for the WLF. DT may be easier if more space available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
42 chevy Posted November 12, 2008 Author Share Posted November 12, 2008 Need some advice here, according to the TM, the glad hands at the front and rear are for towing a trailer or disabled vehicle. On the left rear it is marked "service brake" and on the right rear it is marked "emergency brake". The right front is "service brake" and the left front is "emegency'. Now I know the truck does not have spring brakes so the trialer would need just one air line,so, what is the use of the "emergency" line for. Does it have pressure going to it t all times? Any advice is appreciated. John Gott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormin Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 Need some advice here, according to the TM, the glad hands at the front and rear are for towing a trailer or disabled vehicle. On the left rear it is marked "service brake" and on the right rear it is marked "emergency brake". The right front is "service brake" and the left front is "emegency'.Now I know the truck does not have spring brakes so the trialer would need just one air line,so, what is the use of the "emergency" line for. Does it have pressure going to it t all times? Any advice is appreciated. John Gott The emergency line simply provides a means of putting air into the tanks of the vehicle. So if the compressor was broken or the engine not running the vehicle could be driven under tow with a driver still having brakes. They cannot be applied by the towing vehicle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radiomike7 Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 The emergency line simply provides a means of putting air into the tanks of the vehicle. So if the compressor was broken or the engine not running the vehicle could be driven under tow with a driver still having brakes. They cannot be applied by the towing vehicle. Are you sure? Perhaps the American system is different from ours but in the UK with a double headed train, the leading vehicle can control the brakes of the train via the service line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Barrell Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 The emergency line provides air to firstly charge the trailers own air tanks and then to keep the trailer relay valve closed. In the event of a trailer breakaway, the removal of the emergency pressure against the relay valve allows the air stored in the trailer air tanks to apply the trailer brakes. Hence the 'emergency'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormin Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 Are you sure? Perhaps the American system is different from ours but in the UK with a double headed train, the leading vehicle can control the brakes of the train via the service line. Have a look at the diagram attached from the Ward La France TM (Can't seem to cut and paste from TM9-1827a, but it's basically the same. Bottom left and top right are the emergency lines. They only feed into the air tank side of the system. The service line is the one to control the brakes of the trailer or allow the brakes of the towed vehicle to be controlled (top left and bottom right). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormin Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 The emergency line provides air to firstly charge the trailers own air tanks and then to keep the trailer relay valve closed. In the event of a trailer breakaway, the removal of the emergency pressure against the relay valve allows the air stored in the trailer air tanks to apply the trailer brakes. Hence the 'emergency'. That is correct assuming the trailer has spring brakes. I.E. no air pressure means brakes applied. If the Diamond T or in my case Ward La France is being towed (effectively a trailer) there are no spring brakes, so no air pressure means no brakes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radiomike7 Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 (edited) That is correct assuming the trailer has spring brakes. I.E. no air pressure means brakes applied. If the Diamond T or in my case Ward La France is being towed (effectively a trailer) there are no spring brakes, so no air pressure means no brakes. You are confusing trailer and second tractor, Adrian is 100% correct if towing a trailer but a second tractor would not respond in the same way. The brakes on a disconnected trailer would only stay applied until the air leaked out, which is why a non spring braked trailer should always be parked with the mechanical handbrake applied. According to your diagram, the top left coupling is the service line from the towing vehicle. This applies air pressure via the 2 way check valve to the front brakes and trailer service coupling, and via the relay valve to the rear brakes. Edited November 12, 2008 by radiomike7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormin Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 You are confusing trailer and second tractor, Adrian is 100% correct if towing a trailer but a second tractor would not respond in the same way. The brakes on a disconnected trailer would only stay applied until the air leaked out, which is why a non spring braked trailer should always be parked with the mechanical handbrake applied. According to your diagram, the top left coupling is the service line from the towing vehicle. This applies air pressure via the 2 way check valve to the front brakes and trailer service coupling, and via the relay valve to the rear brakes. Don't disagree with anything you've said there Mike. But the diamond T would still need air pressure in it's own tanks for the brakes to operate. This either comes from the Emergency line (Johns original question) if being towed or from the compressor, if engine running, as second vehicle in a double headed pull. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
42 chevy Posted November 13, 2008 Author Share Posted November 13, 2008 O.K. Fellas; Lets see if I understand this after reading the above threads. Service brake line is for providing air to a trailer or a towed vehicle that has airbrakes, and the braking action is controled by the towing vehicle. Emergency line is to provided air to the towed vehicles air tanks and the operator/driver in the towed vehicle can use the brakes in the disabled vehicle. Let me know John Gott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radiomike7 Posted November 13, 2008 Share Posted November 13, 2008 O.K. Fellas; Lets see if I understand this after reading the above threads. Service brake line is for providing air to a trailer or a towed vehicle that has airbrakes, and the braking action is controled by the towing vehicle. Emergency line is to provided air to the towed vehicles air tanks and the operator/driver in the towed vehicle can use the brakes in the disabled vehicle. Let me know John Gott Yes John, spot on. As mentioned previously the emergency line is so called because it will apply the trailer brakes should the trailer break away and tear out the line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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