Matadors on agricultural

[Albion WD/HD]

i just want to double check that you can have a matador registered as a agricultural machine if you are useing them for timber work, am i right in thinkng this???

[antarmike]

No because of their age their correct taxation class is Historic vehicle. DVLA won't tax anything pre 1973 (with a few exceptions) as anything other than Historic, Commercially operated HGV's built pre 1973 still need an HGV tax, virtually everthing else is "Historic"

 

Historic vehicles can be used commercially for agriculture and forestry, and Historic is the correct. registration.

[Matador Steve]

My Matador in the V5 has Taxation class as agricultural machine.

[antarmike]

Technically that is the wrong taxation class, and gives you no rights, privileges, or concessions that Historic doesn't also give.

 

My Mat and Douglas were both Agric Machine. I moved them onto Historic and DVLA told me that if anything happened legislation wise, that made Historic less useful to me, that I could at any time change back to Agric.

 

When I tried to do this after two years, they told me that I could not change, and every vehicle registered before 1973 "should" be registered as Historic Vehicle, and that this was the correct class.

 

This doesn't entirely agree with this Direct.gov page though

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/OwningAVehicle/TaxationClasses/DG_4022042

[antarmike]

Conditions that need to be met to use Agricultural Taxation

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/OwningAVehicle/TaxationClasses/DG_069649

[N.O.S.]

i just want to double check that you can have a matador registered as a agricultural machine if you are using them for timber work, am I right in thinkng this???

 

Assuming you don't want to cart loads of timber around on a drug, nor sugarbeet on a trailer, but just trundle from timber job to timber job, then you can always tax it as SPECIAL VEHICLES. £165 per year same as Agricultural Machine. I suppose you could even use a 1983 Bedford TM 4x4 winch truck in this way with no MOT requirement (no load carrying though).

 

OR, if since it is a Matador (pre 1960), you can simply tax it as HISTORIC and pay nothing! You can still trundle from timber job to timber job, but in addition you can take it to rallies and other recreational use (which in theory you cannot do on SPECIAL VEHICLES?).

 

Here's a conundrum - what if it was a 1971 4x4 cargo truck with Hiab? If you taxed it HISTORIC you would need an MOT? But if you taxed it SPECIAL VEHICLES you would not need an MOT but would have to pay £165 tax?? And not be able to travel to rallies???

[N.O.S.]

i just want to double check that you can have a matador registered as a agricultural machine if you are using them for timber work, am i right in thinkng this???

 

So if timber is an agricultural activity and a Matador timber tractor is an Agricultural Machine and you can meet the regulations/conditions for towing agricultural trailers and intend to pull a laden pole trailer - then I imagine a Matador could and should be taxed AGRICULTURAL for this type of work (you cannot tow laden trailer under HISTORIC tax).

 

If you are using it for off-road timber work only and just move from site to site on the highway,as has been said above it can be taxed HISTORIC.

 

Isn't what the V5 show under TAXATION CLASS the key to how you can use it?

 

A lot of mvs are still described on V5 as being Agricultural Machine/Tractor etc - yet shown on V5 as beng taxation class HISTORIC - because before the days of HISTORIC tax class it was often the only realistic way to register them. It doesn't really matter what the description of vehicle is, because as long as the Taxation class is shown as HISTORIC it can be used for pyurposes allowed by that taxation class (Locomotives etc currently excepted I guess).

 

Tmes have moved on and, as has been said, HISTORIC is the simplest legitimate way to go for recreational use. However frustrating it might be for certain types of vehicle, we are still really lucky to be able to be able to tax most of our old mvs this way :-)

 

If you are lucky enough to own a big estate with a sawmill as well as the Matador (if you could even be more lucky than just owning a Matador ) you can go AGRICULTURAL and have the best of both worlds!

 

Is there (technically) a problem using a pre-1960 vehicle which meets the HISTORIC criteria for recreational use, even if it is taxed as AGRICULTURAL MACHINE?

 

P.S. How's the Albion restoration progressing?

[antarmike]

You CAN TOW a Laden Pole Trailer on Historic Tax. Only Commercial Vehicles and PSV's registered before 1973 still in revenue service cannot run in the historic taxation class.

 

Agric Machines can be Historic and be used to tow laden Agric trailers, and be taxed as Historic.

But when towing laden trailers on Historic tax, the same restrictions on type of fuel, nature of journey, cargo carried that apply to Agric Licence, still apply.

 

http://www.direct.gov.uk/prod_consum_dg/groups/dg_digitalassets/@dg/@en/@motor/documents/digitalasset/dg_065254.pdf

SEE INF 34, where it clearly says, Qualifying Vehicles,

"Special concessionary – including agricultural machines, mowing machines, snowploughs, gritting vehicles, electric vehicles and steam vehicles."

 

A pre 973 Agric Machine running on Historic Tax has exactly the same rules, limits of use, restrictions and benefits as a post 1973 Agric machine running on a Agric Licence.

Edited October 15, 2010 by antarmike

[N.O.S.]

Well I'm delighted to be able to say "I stand corrected"

 

Always fancied buildng a work machine on a 6x6 Jimmy

[Albion WD/HD]

well im confused after all that but i think i understand, i also take it you dont need a HGV for agricultural tractors?

 

ps. Albion is going well, just need to sought out a hydraulic clutch. she has a lot of power now with an AV760

[antarmike]

well im confused after all that but i think i understand, i also take it you dont need a HGV for agricultural tractors?

 

Passing a car test B category automatically gives you Class F Agricultural Tractor and Trailer so most tractors used in agriculture can be driven on the public highway by anyone who has passed a car test

 

Cat. F does not cover other tractors, such as council tractors, golf course tractors, etc.

 

C&U: Imposes Maximum weight = 24 390 kg, on an Agric Tractor/ Trailer combination, So a loaded trailer with a 12000kg capacity,

 

unladen weight of 5900 kg towed by a tractor weighing 6500 kg

 

would be overweight for the public highway.*

 

Tractor & one trailer maximum length = 18.75 metres

 

Tractor & trailer maximum width = 2.55 metres

 

(This may be exceeded providing conditions are complied with*)

 

This makes it highly unlikely that you could tow a laden Pole trailer, behind a Matador, on a class B/ Class F licence. You would be outside what can be called an Agric Tractor trailer combination (as determined by C and U regs) and as I read it you would have to have the Matador and Trailer plated and run them as HGV combination. This would require HGV 1 (C + E)

 

You can drive an Agric Tractor/ Trailer Combination on a class B / Class F licence providing the max combined weight does not exceed 24.390 Tonnes

 

If you say Matador weighs 7.5 Tonnes, a pole trailer 6 Tonnes. Max timber you can carry is only about 10 and a bit Tonnes. Which is not really enough to be useful, my Pole Trailer was plated to run at 24 Tons.

Edited October 15, 2010 by antarmike

[antarmike]

i just want to double check that you can have a matador registered as a agricultural machine if you are useing them for timber work, am i right in thinkng this???

Going back to the original post.

 

It depends what you call timber work.

 

Tree Surgery and tree felling of dangerous trees is not Agricultural/ Forestry.

 

Forestry is commercial growing and felling of timber on managed estates.

 

"To be Agricultural and Forestry tractor , it has to be constructed or adaptedfor the use off roads for the purposes of agriculture or forestry, and which is primarily used for these purposes. "

 

 

The Matador will have to spend the greater part of its time, working off road on timber production and Harvesting, as part of a commercial timber production operation, in order to satisfy the conditions of this taxation class..

[andyandlew]

Assuming you don't want to cart loads of timber around on a drug, nor sugarbeet on a trailer, but just trundle from timber job to timber job, then you can always tax it as SPECIAL VEHICLES. £165 per year same as Agricultural Machine. I suppose you could even use a 1983 Bedford TM 4x4 winch truck in this way with no MOT requirement (no load carrying though).

 

OR, if since it is a Matador (pre 1960), you can simply tax it as HISTORIC and pay nothing! You can still trundle from timber job to timber job, but in addition you can take it to rallies and other recreational use (which in theory you cannot do on SPECIAL VEHICLES?).

 

Here's a conundrum - what if it was a 1971 4x4 cargo truck with Hiab? If you taxed it HISTORIC you would need an MOT? But if you taxed it SPECIAL VEHICLES you would not need an MOT but would have to pay £165 tax?? And not be able to travel to rallies???

 

You could go to rallies if you had a"job" to do with your special vehicle.I ran my fh70 limber to all manner of shows (registered as a crane) and running on red (single engine).True you cant carry gear but you got the wife to follow in the landrover and trailer.For what its worth unless you drive like a clown or your truck is clearly falling to bits you will seldom draw attention to yourself.