ted angus

Mike its got the same posh RAF on both doors front & rear, not us guv, RAF as an identifier went out in 41 when the roundael was brought in . TED

possibly some silly billy gunning down the road in 4wd !! TED

Thanks Richard, I wonder if they brought some of them home or if they were from a UK resource. Normal practise was to auction on the Island I had a fantastic visit to that huge scrapyard not far from Dhekalia & Larnaca in april 1972 At that time there was everything from Austin K5 to Bedford RL with much in between !! I witnessed the Green Goddesses been stripped of their rear bodies and converted to 25 pounder and bofor tractors, I wonder if the Mat was the UKs longest serving vehicle ?? TED

Mike I would suggest both these are long out of service a roundel on the rear was never called for nor the letters RAF. If that is part of a pre 49 era reg then it is definately a preserved vehicle as the Snow machine is somewhat later but keep the piccies coming !!! TED

Gents I have RAF207135 it was a Willy in use as a crsh rescue tender at Boscombe Down early 1949. Duncan this is not a million miles from your 208343. I have a shot of the RAF Landwrog MRT their Willys is RAF 63576 its very clear on the bumper so must be from a much earlier batch ?? All the piccies I have lead me to think the majority carried the reg stenciled on the bumper. TED

Mike its just amazing how these power trucks soldiered on, 73AV07 above is marked STR /90 STR =strike command which was formed in 1968, in 70 I went to Cyprus for 3 years, throughout that time in the NEAF contingency stores there was at least a dozen of these power trucks I just wonder when the last ones actually left service ? regards TED

Fantastic piccies, The MRT with the RL I think is the RAF St Athan boys, note the cabin on the K9 in MRT service there were several different cabins as long as it could fullfill its W/T & RT role then it was good enough. On my first stint at St Athan in late 66 the Mrt were still operating the K9 but it was replaced in early 67 by a Landie. The Landie ambulance is a rare bird it is a series one They were established for MRT duties in UK, MRT and Desert Rescue overseas although a handful of overseas airfields had them for airfield crash cover-- mostly in the Gulf theatre on one of our previous little escapade in the area. Attached 2 variations on the theme

Hi Mike, prior to the intro of the 9" roundal for MT, RAF was on each side of the vehicle in white using screwed- on metal letters, this was replaced by signwriting/stencilled paint. To aid identification at road blocks, traffic controls etc the practise crept in of putting RAF in the corner of the windscreen; it would appear in some cases some units actually put a small roundal. The AMO that introduced the 9" roundal for MT vehicles makes it very clear the purpose of having the roundal on the front of the vehicle is to aid traffic control. The order calls for it to be on the offside of the vehicle. This was never changed for the UK. The same AMO calls for the Command/group or wing marking to be above the roundal. The bridge class circle could be in any convenient position. . Overseas, where traffic drove on the right hand side of the road it was normal practise to put the roundal on the opposite side of the vehicle so it would continue to be seen by traffic control. Plus on crossing the channel the offside is now the other side of the vehicle. Markings overseas were under the remitt of the AOC in C or Cin C of that theatre and AMOs would not necessarily apply. So turning to your AEC bowser the B/3 is non conforming and in the 2TAF photos all the 9" roundals should be on the left side of the vehicle looking forward . However having related chapter and verse from the AMOs we all know that possibly 75% of pictures of RAF MT in WW2 show markings that do not conform !! regards TED

Thats how I see it, Scc2 was being replaced by UK OD. Just after D Day the requirent to use SCC14 black over the OD was cancelled. The roundal moved to the near side. The marking would be TAF/83 or 84 etc. I don't recall seeing the big anti friendly fire roundal on Jeeps I think it was as stated for larger vehicles that would be static on landing grounds. The RAF reg could be stencilled on the bumpers / bumperette Will look for some jeep piccies. TED

Sorry missed this one, for your K9 gloss blue grey was the order of the day, the black wings were ditched in 1954, at the same time in Germany the RAF went to Gloss Deep Bronze Green same as the army was using. the Near & middle east went to Lt Stone, the far east blue grey. However I have seen colour shots of blue grey continuing in the near & middle east and Lt Stone being used in the far east. White cab and body roofs were common place in all the warm overseas theatres. In UK yellow tops if frequently on an airfield or on mountain rescue duties. Each team had a Austin K9 WT truck body types varied. Historically there is some conflict between the orders for vehicle colours and the orders for airfield hazards. In WW2 yellow bonnets are refered to in some vehicle painting orders, but the airfield hazard orders refer to orange !!!! Post war airfield hazard orders reqired vehicles to be yellow, vehicle repaint orders talked about yellow tops ?????? Regards TED

Tony , In the days when we had an RAF that was fully manned and funded, corrosion was rarely seen on MT or ground support equipment as in the UK we were using Gloss RAF blue grey on MT and Gloss traffic blue on GSE and kit was being repainted at the set intervals. In 74 we had the mad panic to "tone down" and IRR Green became the order of the day. Even meeting repaint dates corrosion set in much quicker and due to the porousity of the coats dirt and oil became a real pain to remove from surfaces. Although not authentic I would use satin, if I was repainting now. At the end of the day who ever is paying the bill calls the tune !! Jules comparing a BS DK Earth chip to what is thought to be the nearest SCC2 chip there is a difference but not much, and the colour SCC2 has many times been refered to as Dark Earth although it isn't. THE only SCC colour that had a name in the actual Standard Document was SCC 15 olive drab. Certainly when giving a nomenclature to any paint the RAF always came up with the long winded term paint special PFU etc etc with Brown being used for SCC2 and Dark Brown for SCC1A . In documents they would put a little note such and such must conform to SCC x or Y I have seen SCC1A described as Service Brown but it appears to be darker than the British Standard SERVICE BROWN . Another thing to bear in might a particular colour adopts a totally different hue & tone between Matt Satin and Gloss. Some researchers when examining old paintwork assume it has faded with age, there is a trap here, from experience I can tell you Gloss Deep Bronze Green starts to darken within weeks of application until it takes on a very dark tone. Some greens fade, some darken. Brown appears to behave in a different way and retains its original colour. In the old disposal site near moenchengladbach some IRR on RLs had gone almost light pea green , some had gone nearly black ?/ ammo boxes always seem to be very resistant to fade or darkening. Enough from me TED

Jules this is possibly the best shot of that period. SCC2 is the base colour comparing the dark colour with the car behind I would guess the dark colour is SCC 1A although it could be SCC 14 black. regards TED

Tony, as you are possibly aware I have been digging into the whole WW2 colour story and now have a mass of AMOs etc from Hendon, and I have to say I don't draw the same conclusions that you have from the AMO A1397 of 1942 that you have posted . Early 1942 saw the both the Army and RAF change from the previous colours, (some were BS colours & others were from the Nobels range) to the war emergency Standard Camouflage Colours (SCC) range. In the AMO you have posted the 2 finishing colours are 33A /560 Brown Special No.2 on top of which is 33A/ 562 Brown Dark ( MT) for wood & metal surfaces and 33A/ 561 Bitumious emulsion colour No 1a for canvas. No 2 and No 1 A are reference to the SCC range of colours ie SCC2 Brown and SCC 1A Dark Brown. A later AMO A891 of 1943 gives a change with 33A /570 black replacing the 33A /562 Dark Brown. This later AMO give much more detail than AMO A 1397 of 1942, it repeatedly states 33A/ 560 Brown Special No 2 is to SCC 2 with 33A /570 Black to SCC14. So returning to your AMO A1397 of 1942 there is no doubt that the Brown is SCC2 which is slightly darker than the British Standard dark earth, and all the evidence is that the dark Brown is SCC1A which is in fact an extremely dark brown so dark in fact that in some light conditions looks almost black. So thats my conclusion; Whilst I have total admiration for your WOT1 and the outstanding restoration I cannot aree with your conclusion that the colours in AMO 1397 of 1942 translate to Lt & Dk Earth. Your thoughts please regards TED

Hello Les, I believe the original of that photo had a Dodge (Kew ) RAF lorry in the background of one corner and an RAF reference to the photo along the bottom. I cropped the photo as it shows a vehicle with a text book set of marking. Problem is I cannot find the original now I spent 3 hours this morning going throuh all my photo files and couldn't find it. I had it in my mind I either got the original from yourself or from a forum. Now I know I was right But thanks to the Cyber Gremlins I cannot find the original Arghhhhh !! Hope you are well regards TED

Hi Julian apologies I forgot about your light warning truck; RAF dark earth to the british standard with Dk Green camo was never a standard vehicle finish. It was no doubt used during the ad hoc cam days of the Battle of Britian , but in August 1941 the RAF formally adopted the same schemes as the Army. initially it was Khaki Green No 3 with dark tarmac green No 4, then SCC4 which was a brown with SCC 1A which was a very dark brown SCC 1A was replaced by SCC 14 black. Then came UK olive drab SCC 15 with black, then UK OD on its own. I am currently reserarching these colours but its a long slog as its at least a 4 week turn around to order stuff from the RAF museum . Mickey Mouse Cam although very common was never an official ARMY or RAF pattern it was initially the result of applying cam by spray using templates. Units were instructed to modify the MM pattern on next repaint to conform with MTP 46 which gave the recommended patterns. However pictures of vehicles in service mostly show MM . I would be looking at SCC2 brown with SCC14 black but obtaining the correct shades would be a problem . Where are you situated ?? You decide a date and I will let you know the most likely colour regards TED

Great shots thanks for putting them on, The practise of putting the Sqn code in big letters was common in Africa Greece etc it was an anti theft device !! THe trucks in your piccies all have either Army or WD serials. I suppose they were issued from depots overseas and there wasn't the admin supporet to undertake the cancellation of the original reg and issue ofv a new one, plus I believe the WD reg was required by the Egyption authorities. I have even seen in UK origin photos RAF operated trucks with Army numbers the piccy of the B/26 light warning truck being a typical example re the peeing against the truck have you ever turned yours to a sand blasting wind ??? I reckon its a bit dangerous !!!!! regards TED

The original piccy which I cannot find at the moment has the plane type on it I am sure its a Beaufort. What do you want mirrors for !!!LOL TED

Final post for tonight, The attached was taken in 1943 when squadrons earmarked for the soon to be formed Tactical Air Force started to live a nomadic life under canvas in preperation for the assualt on Europe. The attached is a Bedford OX tractor with a Taskers high loading 20ft trailer. The Bedford has the roundal with F/83 above F fighter command 83 for 83 group. 83 group was formed as a unit that would cross the channel, initially it was under HQ Fighter Command , transferring shortly after to TAF , The RAF reg can be seen both on the door and bumper. TED

The attached taken sept 1941 is a classic of correct marking. Roundal with the M for Maintenance Command . The RAF reg on the number plate and the dual bridge class facing forward in a prominent position. I would guess at this date the colour is RAF Blue Grey but more likely Khaki Green No 3. In recent months I have been digging deeply into the RAF records re colour and markings; I have made great progress but I will never get the full story as some documents are not availible in their original unamended form. It is becoming apparent that some vehicles never received an RAF reg or serial number but continued on their pre spring 1941 Middlesex County Council reg number. Let me know what vehicle what period and what theatre of operations and I will do my best to give you what the good book said which often was not happened in reality. regards TED

Jules the roundal should be on the right hand (looking forward) wing; It should be positioned so it can be seen if you were approaching a traffic control etc. The command abd group letter/number code should be above the roundal. The bridge class circle should also be on the front . The placing of the RAF vehicle number was no so strict. as long as it is on the front and back then that will suffice. If the vehicle was fitted with a front number plate then it was placed on there. Sometimes it was on both doors biut often only on the offside. On a vehicle with a bonnet it could be on either or just the offside. On Bedford QLs it was sometimes above the windscreen. There was an official diagram illustrating this information. I found the Air Ministry code for the document known as an AIR DIAGRAM but neither the RAF Museum or Air Historical branch have a copy. compare th2 shots attached of the QL named CALADONIA roundal beidge plate below it RAF number only on one door. More piccies to follow. TED

Behind the scenes many of our TV personalities - some who only ever get a bad press - are quietly doing a lot for the troops. Did anyone see the Millies hosted by the SUN? RK earned my respect after the first episode of the first series. Over Xmas I had a son , his partner and a daughter in law all deployed on Ops the 2 in Basra got lots of presents both from organisations and from members of the public. In the run up to Xmas 2008 The MoD tried to stop Joe public from sending parcels to un named service personel but it back fired: At the point when there was 15,000 packages sitting in a sorting office in London they relented and got then shipped to Iraq and Afgan, One of the sponsored packages everyone was supposed to receive was a tin full of fantastic little gadgets the kids understand RK was behind much of the contents of these. Headley Court brought back many memories, I was ic the rehab workshop there in 1985/6, thank fully I just caught the tail end of the Falklands casualties, but there are terrible accidents and injuries going on even when we are not involved in major operations. It was beyond doubt the most rewarding job I had in my service. TED

Thanks Hanno fingers croissed the death toll doesn't rise TED

I will put half a days pension on it being one of the NATO standing Minesweeping/Hunting Sqns. They used to be a frequent visitor to Dundee and we would get an invite down for a tiffin or tot !! Since all the yuppee flats were built -- if there is such a thing in Dundee --- I haven't seen them. My son who is on a Leuchars sqn would be able to tell me by making a call but unfortunately he is keeping pengiuns company at the moment. Mind I could phone my daughter at Pelaw to have a drive along the Tyne but I can imagine the polite answer similar to my requests for fire engine pictures from the Hebburn station !! LOL TED

Could you read the number or at least the prefix TED is that south Shields ??

Hi Les not seen the Mat with Radar trailer yet, With grand daughters staying for a week I sweem to have lost my PC !! Instow Braunton Burrows is all very familiar from my days at what was then RAF Chivenor lovely area regards TED