Catch 22 LBDR

Yes the quad was owned by the same farmer. I rescued it with my Dad almost 20 years ago (I was 15 at the time) from his ditch in a field. Unfortunately he has passed on now and his family had no interest in it so no info was available. The back had bean removed (butchered with a torch) so it could be registered as a Tractor. When we stripped it down we found that the linkage on the top of the gearbox had broken. We guessed where it broke down was where it was left until We rescued it.

Not to panic yet. With a bit more info I might be able to close the gap on the search.:cheesy:

Hi Wally Great thread. How do you go about looking for a vehicle in that lot, Have you got digital copes on line or do you do the search yourself?

I am not so sure they are false, (maybe there not British) If you look closely at the pictures you can see where the markings were repainted. Yellow over gold, White over silver, etc. You can even see where the main colour has run over the markings, and where they were painted over. To me the marking look as old as the vehicle its self. I cant see how an Irish farmer in 1947ish would be too bothered about military markings.

How were the vehicles listed for sale, was it by chassis number? I have no Idea where it was sold. Had a quick look at your thread, its a hole new can of worms:wow:. Going to get stuck into it now.

The Markings are very strange Richard. There are a number of oddities with this vehicle. For instance the chassis number was not amongst the list of contract numbers for Gun Tractors. I have bean unable to trace it so far. (1929 F.W.D 8580 (C8)).

There is proximately an 18 month period in which the Quad would need to be; repatriated to the UK, prepared to be struck off, auctioned/purchased, shipped to Ireland and then reregistered. I suppose this could have bean done in a relatively short space of time. Leaving some scope for a short post war career. I wonder if the vehicle auctions were recorded in time somewhere. I am sure if they were , then it might give things like places and dates that they were held. (A list of vehicles might be asking too much) But if there were dates then I might be able to cross reference it with that 18 month period. Any Ideas? There is no evedance of a wartime census number on ether the bonnet or door. Although I have bean reluctant to go scraping at paint yet. If done wrong vital information could be lost.

It was owned by an Irish Farmer before I got it Robin.

OK. A slight development on the history front. On the front of the vehicle there was the remnants of a Irish civilian registration number. ZD 317.... Is the best I can make out. I never got a log book with the Quad so it is imposable to know what the number should be. I am involved in a letter writing process with the Irish motor tax division, to try and retrieve a copy using the Chassis number but they are proving to be most unhelpful. Anyway using good old Google I was able to find out some information about the issue of Irish number plates. It turns out that "ZD" was a Dublin prefix and was only used between Jan 1940- Jan 1947. The numbers ran from 1-9999. Assuming the Quad saw service to the end of the war (or at least V.E. Day) and the vehicle was struck off by Jan 1947, then it is unlikely that it saw any post war action, and it would seam there is only an 18 month period between May1945 to Jan 1947 where the Quad was struck off. This would also imply that (since the Quad finished up in Portland stone paint) that it finished the war somewhere in the middle east or north Africa. Of course this still leaves the question about the strange markings. But it is unlikely to be post war. Perhaps The vehicle was used or attached to a non British unit like the Greek army, And was repatriated back to the UK as the size of the Allied forces shrunk at the end of the war?

This is the last bit of work to be done before Christmas.

Hi Eryk Ross hear. (Ferret owner, met at your club's annual show this year). In my experience in restoring vehicles is that you have to draw a line between originality and practical cost effectiveness. In other words if you get too hung up on its authenticity you wont have time or money to enjoy you new vehicle. Why dont you make the club logo detachable.

Hi Kevin, So by that rational did the 72nd infantry brigade come under the 3rd Infantry Division at that time? and do you know what Bty's made up 6 field RA? I found reference to the 6th under the 3rd Inf Div on 17.08.1945 - 31.08.1945

Chris, I have started another thread just on this subject. I copied and pasted your findings on there. Feel free to take a look and join in.:nut: Ross http://hmvf.co.uk/forumvb/showthread.php?41295-Morris-gun-tractor-history-and-markings&p=391595#post391595

Thanks Chris. That has given me food for thought. It is the first a bit of concrete evidence as to the blue shield. Do you think the symbol painted on my Quad is the 72nd symbol? There is, after all, only so much leeway that can be given to "artistic licence". Could it be something else? I did find some info on 6 field Regt RA from 1938-45. In 1947 it seams that it was re designated as 67 Training Regt RA. Consisting of 165, 155 and 74 Field Bty's It also had "B" bty from 112 Regt RA. This Bty was latter replaced by "B" Bty from 188 AAFC Regt. However nothing from 1945-47. 74 Bty is still around, so I might be able to get a Bty history from them. My plan is to find out what unit the vehicle served with before it was struck off, then work backwards from there, cross referencing the info where ever passable. For example, I know the Quad started out in green paint and finished up in Portland stone, so logic would say it didn't finish up in N.W. Europe. I know its not a very accurate way to do it. Regards Ross :-D:-D:-D

This info was posted on my other Quad thread. Thought you might like it. Hi Catch22 Your correspondents are looking in references rather too modern! Me, I'm only a modeller, but two of my valuable books are 'Heraldry in War' and 'Badges on Battledress' by Lt Col Howard N Cole. He has published at least one more book since those two which were in 1946 and 1953 respectively. Anyway, enough history. Badges on Battledress states: 72 British (no Indian units, see) Brigade Group was formed in 1946 when the 36th Division was disbanded. 72 Bde, which prior to its incorporation in the Division had as its sign a red circle on a square black background, did not, however, revert to this badge, but adopted the central part of the 36 Div sign (which was two interlocking circles, left one red, right one white, on a black rectangle) - the interlocking part of the two circles. This design in yellow was set on a blue shield with a narrow yellow border (just as, with a little allowance for artistic licence, you see above). The formation was stationed in Bangalore and was composed of Ist Battalion the Essex Regiment, 2nd Bn the Leicestershire Regt, 2nd Bn the Manchester Regiment and 6 Field Regt Royal Artillery. Until it was disbanded (presumably in 1947 on Indian Independence) the Brigade was occupied on internal security duties in Mysore. 1st Essex had a detachment in the fort at Madras and was the last British unit to be stationed in that ancient stronghold. Note that the words in brackets above have been added by myself to help your understanding. It would appear likely that your Quad was owned at one time by 6 Fd Regt RA, but please do not ask me how it has come to have some sort of an RASC Arm of Service square, let alone why that was painted on the bridging circle! Hope this helps Chris

Thanks Chris. That has given me food for thought. It is the first a bit of concrete evidence as to the blue shield. Do you think the symbol painted on my Quad is the 72nd symbol? There is, after all, only so much leeway that can be given to "artistic licence". Could it be something else? I did find some info on 6 field Regt RA from 1938-45. In 1947 it seams that it was re designated as 67 Training Regt RA. Consisting of 165, 155 and 74 Field Bty's It also had "B" bty from 112 Regt RA. This Bty was latter replaced by "B" Bty from 188 AAFC Regt. However nothing from 1945-47. 74 Bty is still around, so I might be able to get a Bty history from them. My plan is to find out what unit the vehicle served with before it was struck off, then work backwards from there, cross referencing the info where ever passable. For example, I know the Quad started out in green paint and finished up in Portland stone, so logic would say it didn't finish up in N.W. Europe. I know its not a very accurate way to do it. Regards Ross :-D:-D:-D

Another 2 days work on the body.

The Winch has a max pull of about 4.5 ton. 120ft of 2in circumference plough steel cable with a braking strain of 14tons.

I cant speck for the UK but hear in Ireland (Republic) I have come across one serious problem that jeopardises the future of the movement hear. The suborn farmer! I have lost many wrecks to the scrap man because this conundrum of a man is imposable to deal with. I find that as soon as you ask about that rusting lorry burred under the bushes in his field its suddenly worth a fortune and that the 70 year old man who owns is has plans to restore it, even though it has bean there for years. I had this very conversation with a farmer while trying to save two Morris commercial Quads, one a rare Irish army 6x4. I even asked him to name his price (this was about 15 years ago). About 4 or 5 years latter they were sent to the scrap man. So far I have bean unable to save, two Morris lorries, three Karrier trucks, and two champs, all gone to the scrap man :angry

Might not look like it but this is the result of two days work!

My next concern is; I consulted an ex REME mechanic when I wanted to overhaul the wheel stations on my Stalwart. He told me what to expect inside. He also told me that the two sets of planetary gears inside had to be "timed". The hole thing will go back together with out doing this and you will think you have it right until you drive off! crunch!!:shocked:. This was enough to put me off for now. I dont know if the Stalwart is the same inside as the Saladin, it might be more like the Saracen, you could ask someone who has done a wheel station on one them. The Ferret only has one set of planetary gears and so did not require timing. This is what to expect inside the hub. This is the ferret hub, you can see the planetary gears hear. I believe there are two sets of them in your hub. Mark every gear with a bit if paint and take lots of pictures for reference. Good luck.

Ok. I have found that the best way to remove stubborn slotted screws from brake drum's etc is with an impact tool. You can set it to on or off and then belt the top of the tool with a good heavy hammer. Tapping the area around the screw with a hammer first can sometimes brake the seal between the screw and its surroundings.

On studding your pictures it's not the same, it looks like you need to unscrew the inside part of the brass ring, drift the retaining pins and draw the ball inside the ring. you must still be able to split the two bevel balls apart though.