Old Bill

Fascinating! Every part has a story! Steve

What a super find! How was it identified? Fiats are not common! Steve

Good luck with that. We shall look forward to seeing the photos! Steve

Hi Ian. As Tim says, we won't be taking these apart as they are not showing any signs of spreading. There will be a little bit of rust between the leaves so I expect we will see some dust come out the first time on the road but I am not concerned. The only damping in the suspension is the friction between the leaves so we won't grease them either. I had heard that they tried greasing the leaves on Jezebel, the 1916 Dennis N type fire engine, and that her handling was noticeably degraded but Mr Pugh will be better placed to comment on that. Her performance is also significantly quicker than a lorry so we probably wouldn't notice the difference either way. Good luck with the International! Steve

Hi Ed. That's right. There are two steel bands involved. One is part of the wheel and is shrunk on as a plain band, holding the wheel together. On a horse drawn vehicle, this would also be the tyre and in contact with the road. Solid tyres were made by first attaching a layer of bakelite (or it may have been ebonite. Someone correct me here!) around 1/4" thick to a steel band and then vulcanizing the rubber to that under pressure and heat. The tyre is held on by an interference fit between the two steel bands. We cut the old tyre bands off because, as you say, we have some complete tyres in stock and these bands were very corroded and not good enough for re-use anyway. Steve

Yes, they are classic wooden artillery wheel construction, brought up to date by pressing a solid tyre around the outside. The tyres can be quite tricky to fit as the press must act on the steel band and not the wooden wheel. We have the front tyres in stores so, just as soon as Dad has finished cleaning the wheels up and priming them, we will visit the tyre press and get them put on. Got to keep Dad busy now that he is retired and has all the time in the world! Steve

We have been tidying up loose ends today and considering our next steps. Once the chassis frame is painted, the next steps will be to fit wheels and axles. To that end we have selected a pair of rear springs and I have spent some time removing the shackles and pins so that they can be blast cleaned. I spent some considerable time trying to shift rusted-in split pins but to no avail. In the end, I gave up and cut the nuts off with the disc cutter. The nuts are quite thin and lightweight so we can make some more if necessary. I don't like destroying otherwise sound components but my patience was wearing thin! The two rear springs are now ready for blasting. The final task before the chassis can be sent for cleaning was to remove the remaining worn-out spring shackle bush. Dad made a plug with a hole for some studding and with a tube on the other end, jacked it out. The bush is pretty tired! Father has found a piece of bronze in stock to make a new one so that will be his next task. Fitting it should be a reverse of the removal exercise. We are going to need some wheels. Tim has selected two fronts which look pretty good so I proceeded to cut the tyre bands in order to remove them. The tyre had already started to peel from the first so I didn't have to cut the rubber. A gentle application of the disc cutter and the band split. It split with quite a bang and made us both jump! The wheel looks very nice indeed. The second wheel had a band but no rubber at all so splitting this was quite painless and we have two good wheels awaiting a clean up and painting. Now, we have old tyres to get rid of. The steel is easy enough but the rubber is a pain. We stripped the rubber from the steel by heating the inside. Anyone want ten feet of rotten old rubber with lumps of Bakelite attached? Home tomorrow and back to reality on Thursday. Happy New Year everybody! Steve

Yes. That cost me a gashed finger when it slipped! The trouble is that my selection of spanners over 3" AF is a bit limited and I have to resort to the stillson which I consider brutal. A cold chisel is, however, beyond the pale on good bits. Steve

With the success of the crossmember change, we are now pushing on to get the frame ready for blasting and painting. The jackshaft carriers each have a gland to prevent water from getting into the bearings. The gland itself is bronze with a steel lock-nut behind to prevent it from unscrewing. Unfortunately, the steel nut corrodes and expands until the bronze hex is sheared off as has happened here on the left hand side. Usual trick. Get it hot and then unscrew. The surprise was that it had a left hand thread and it took us quite a while to figure that out! Heat again on the other side. Dig into the face with a cold chisel remembering that this side would have a right hand thread. Fortunately it moved quite easily so that was good. Now we need a replacement. Tim had a dig in the stores and came up with a replacement which still had the hex attached. Heat again. Get it moving with the stillson wrench. And then unscrew. Tim fitted the replacement shackle casting. I punched out a few more rivets. There was a bend in a crossmember so a bit of heat and an adjustable spanner resolved that. Finally, our pal, John, came over with his welding set, repaired a crack and then built up an area where the engine mount had fretted half way through the top flange. This dressed back nicely with no notches or inclusions to set off any more cracks. The frame is all but ready to go now so it is just a case of arranging transport. The next step will be to get wheels axles and springs fitted so we are going out to identify the components we want to use and start preparing them. Last day today and back to work on Thursday. It's a tough life! Steve

Many thanks for all of your thoughts and comments. We seem to be reaching a concensus that 1" of deformity is probably OK but that we should still try a bit harder if we can. We decided, to quote a dear friend, to give it another 'good dose of looking at'. We decided to check the engine bay for squareness and found it lozenged by about an inch. I put in a bottle jack and a piece of wood and found that we could square it up but it wouldn't stay. This could give us problems with the engine mounts. Whilst playing this game, we realised that the front shackel pin casting was showings signs of extreme wear as the pin had gone right through the bush and into the casting. That couldn't be fixed in situ so we removed it by first cutting the heads from the rivets with the disc cutter. Tim punched them out at great risk to his knuckles. Tim then ventured into 'stores' and came back with a better one! Dad gave it a good brushing and clean up and it is ready to fit! This forced us to have a closer look at the first crossmember and we realised that it had a bend towards one end. Also, one end was out of line with a missing rivet and a sheared rivet. The direction of the bend was such that it forced the lozenge shape into the front section so we decided to remove the crossmember. More cutting and punching rivets! As soon as the rivets were out, it sprung by 1/2" and the chassis relaxed slightly. After removing the rivets the other end, Tim lifted it out. Well, what do we do now? we could have tried to straighten it but Tim again looked in the stores and came out with another crossmember! After some cleaning up and removal of loose rivets, it was fitted into the chassis. The lozenge shape meant that the bolt holes didn't line up properly so we bolted one end and then pulled it around with a ratchet strap. Amazingly, we dropped bolts into all of the holes. Once tightened up, the effect looked promising. Very promising in fact. We are about 1/4" away from perfect which we are very pleased with. Thank you all for your kind thoughts and suggestions. Smaller bits tomorrow! Steve

Hello Chaps. Many thanks for your thoughts and observations which are all much appreciated. As we haven't done anything quite like this before, we thought we would just have a go and see what happens as a learning exercise! First job was to make up a a Jim Crow. I had a rummage in the undergrowth behind the shed and found the remains of the Dennis skid-pack on which the engine had originally been mounted. A brush off and removal of the bolts left me with two two solid pieces of C-section. I spaced these two apart with blocks of wood and mounted the ram from our 10 tonne hydraulic press in the middle. This is the challenge. The chassis is lovely and crisp and unworn but was kinked when they pulled it out from under the house in Salisbury. We want to try to reduce this a bit. We rigged up the beam with a couple of bits of wood to make sure it stayed where we wanted it and then looped some chains around the ends. Install the ram and give it a push. Stand back. This could get exciting! At about 7 tonnes, it sprung noticeably the other way. It didn't look too bad and we moved the beam up and down and had a couple more pushes in other places. The net result is that we have removed the kink but the rails now have a slow curve from end to end giving us an offset in the middle of about an inch. The question now is does this matter? Experience is telling me that the only way for us to get it perfect is to strip the rails from the assembly and bend them individually as has been suggested above. To be quite honest, this would be a real pain and I don't want to do it! There is a long propshaft between the engine and gearbox so the alignment is not an issue so what do you think? I would value some opinions! Steve

It was a truly filthy day and everything was soaked. The lorry started OK though and driving it the last mile was quite exciting! It is now safely stored and we are onto the next project. Steve

Good show! An exciting day! Just in time to go out in the snow! Steve

Rather nice. Not seen that one before. Distributor looks a bit exposed though! Steve

Nice repair! Steve

Hi Chaps. We have been fortunate to have a day when we were all in the same place at the same time! The cross bar is pinned into the castings and the shackles pivot freely on it. It does seem a very odd way to do things. The only reason I can see is that the vertical spring force no longer tend to twist the chassis rails inwards. It takes a lot of metal to achieve that, though. Any further thoughts would be appreciated. Steve :)

What is the story here, Mo? Do you have any plans for it? If you can show a pic of the inside of the front dumb irons that would show whether it is early or late war. Another clue would be the bolt holes for the gearbox in the subframe. Four in a square pattern would be earlier than two about a foot apart one side and only 4" apart on the other. There seems to have been a sudden spate of Thorny J's in the last few years. You are in good company here! Steve

Alternatively, you could make something up using Belleville washers or even laminate some 1/4" rubber and flat steel washers. It only needs to take the shock out of the system. If you use rubber, make sure the rubber washers are smaller in diameter than the steel in order to allow somewhere for the rubber to go under load. We were fortunate in that we had two drag links (both of which were scrap) and in each case, one spring had survived. Steve

Great job! It is nice to see other sorts of equipment being brought back as well. Steve

Don't forget, Tomo, that I made the pistons to suit the rings I could buy! Steve

Very like the J in style. Our reverse gear idler bearing was completely worn away as well. I find this odd as there is no load on it for most of the time but the bushes typically disappear. Good to see you making progress! Steve

Our valves were all made by G & S and the liners by Westwood. Both gave first rate service. Steve

Hello there! Father has been up for the weekend and has brought the cleaned-up followers with him. I have had a look and am quite happy that the tappets are 5/16" x 26 tpi. If a 55° angle then they would be a BSB thread for which we have taps and dies in stock. As you can see, I fitted both by hand and they are fine. Stiff but no rattle. The male thread is a bit truncated though, which brings the OD down. If they are Slough Lorries spare parts then I expect them to be 55°. If they are original manufacture, then I guess they would be 60°. Three of the tappets are rusted away completely and four are bent. The nuts are a mixed lot too so I have asked Father to make up a complete new set from 1/2" AF hex and will case harden the heads on completion. Trying to identify old threads without causing more damage can be challenging! Whilst looking at the threads, I could see that two of the rollers are beyond use so I will make up some replacements. The pin they run on is secured by a cross-pin with the ends riveted over. First job was to drill out the countersink. Both pins came out quite esily with a pin punch. The pin, of another weird dimension (!), Has a very nice oil groove cut in its underside. I am getting the impression that this engine is quite nicely engineered. I'll do the second one shortly and make up some new rollers from silver steel so that I can harden them. Many thanks for all of your thoughts regarding the thread. I have now learned that 25tpi is used on Springfield rifles! Always something new. Steve

Nice picture John. You have some good detail in there The chap behind your Grandpa does look remarkably like Tomo! Steve

Well, we are still doing odds and ends whilst we try to keep a lot of other balls in the air. Going to drop one sooner or later but in the meantime the lorry is a making a little progress. Dad is still working on the chains. They are a tedious job and best attacked in small doses. I wanted to get the pistons out so I can have a look at making some new ones. Big end is fairly conventional. A bit of contortionism! And off it came. No wobble or wear. A really nice joint. I wish the last owner had taken a bit more care. There is no wear at all, just two broken castings! Actually, the castings are amazingly thin. They are iron and only around 1/16" thick. I don't expect that mine will be quite so light. Lubrication to the big ends is by splash in this engine. See the big holes at the sides of the journal to let the oil in. The magneto bracket has been annoying be. It looks as if it has taken a bash and bent the crank case. I set about taking it off with some coaxing and oil. Off it came. The base plate is broken but replaceable. The best bit was that the crank case casting isn't bent so that is a win. On the other hand, i tried to unscrew a bolt from a boss on the side of the case and it split. I think it was cracked already but it is a real nuisance and will take some sorting. On to the governor on the other side. A lot of it is missing but the basic mechanism is still there. # With the cover off, there is a lever carrying a yoke. The yoke sits on these two pins which push it back and forth, actuated by the bob weights inside. This sping sets the governed speed. It has no adjustment and is set in position by a cross-pin under the washer. Once slid off the shaft, it is again in beautiful condition with no wear. The drive gear spindle has a key along its length which takes the drive for the weights. The gear is in lovely order too. Bob weights removed. The magneto drive gear on the other side is nice too. Dad has picked up the cam followers for a clean and inspection. Again, no wear at all but some corrosion on the rollers. I see these very much as borderline and am deciding whether to replace them. The last three have very corroded tappets. Dad has reached the conclusion that they are a metric fine thread which I find bizarre for an Americn lorry. He has ordered some bolts to try in the holes and will make up some replacements in due course. We want to turn the engine pver and lift the crank next time we get together. Once that is done and the camshafts are out we can get on with creaning and putting it back together. I must get on with the piston pattern. Steve