FV601 (R.I.P.)

What a wonderfull mindset you have Mr Stevens, I commend you on your narrow minded bigotry in what is supposed to be an all encompassing hobby. I wonder if you would be so minded if I were the owner of a Jimmy or a Dodge or even a Jeep, I somehow doubt it. You see this as whinging whereas we see it as a genuine concern that there is an elitism being propogated that should never have been there in the first place. I think, and correct me if I am wrong, that throughout this thread you have heard most if not all PW owners state their admiration of WW2 vehicles and their restoration. I do not think you have heard any of the posters state that they are superior to, or wish to exclude WW2 owners from any event, yet it would appear that you as a WW2 owner wish that and I am sure there are many more like you or lets face it, most of us PW owners would'nt be feeling as we do. Is this the same in all regions? I am not sure for if you take what Berni has said it would appear not. Is it prevalent throughout most regions? I would say yes as the posts made here voicing the PW opinion are not just from one area of the country. It is understood that there will be events that are "specific" to WW2 and as such most of the PW owners accept that their presence would be out of place, but to exclude those owners on the scale that is being encountered is almost criminal to say the least. Yes we have put our own shows on and did so with the mindset that ALL vehicle owners were welcome because as has been stated so many times we are trying to ensure the historical value of the vehicles as well as the conflicts they have served in. As has been stated there have been conflicts other than WW2 and whilst that has a certain, for want of another word, "romantasism" about it, it is not the be all and end all of the MV movement. Ive probably camped next to you at Beltring or one of the other larger shows but has that made me think of you any differently? Until today no, but with your comments I am perhaps now of a different mindset. Until the attitude of yourself and many like you change this particular "gap" will allways be there, but then again there are always purists in whatever field one gets into. "Grabs GWT's can of petrol and sprinkles a little more on the flames"

Let us take today for instance As a selection of us took part in Rememberance day parade at East Ham in East London. To count there were 5 Post War vehicles, Two Quads (WW2) and a 25 pounder which was fired to mark the start and finish of the silence. The public as well as the veterans were interested in ALL of the vehicles as well as the gun so all in all it would not have mattered whatever vehicles attended. We had travelled in convoy from Tilbury Fort in Essex (All Vehicles and gun) with no thought as to who would lead, be it WW2 or Post War and after the parade had finished we returned in convoy with the same mentality. After returning to Tilbury we all slipped into the local hostellry and spoke of how good a day it had been. Lucky enough we all get on well so there would never have been a problem like those being discussed in this thread. But I digress. It just so happens that next year is the 25th anniversary of the Falklands War and as such we found ourselves all discussing what we would be doing about such an event. Now the WW2 chaps were as enthusiastic about such an event as us Post War lads were. Could you imagine what they would feel like if we told them "sorry you cannot attend as your kit/vehicle is not in keeping with the timeline". Needless to say it is something we would not do and as such really do not expect it to be done to us. Yet it is on a regular basis. This viewpoint is not a knock at the MVT alone, its a knock at All the clubs/ organisers of shows who take the narrow minded view that certain vehicles should not show up at an event. If it was'nt for All vehicle owners out there putting their hands in their pockets and actually attending these events they would'nt have a show in the first place. Its about time the clubs live by their own credo, that they are there for the WHOLE Military Vehicle scene and not just a select part of it.

Tim Just to pick up on a few of your points Whilst the 36 pages covering everything other than WW2 were avidly read and appreciated, the pages you had mentioned to ignore covering shows, tours etc etc appear to be the ones that "get our goat" so to speak. Its not a question of having the Post War vehicles discussed in magazines and forums as such its more the case that shows seem to discriminate between what is and what is not allowed. I congratulate you on having that many WW1 trucks turn out for a show but did any of you ask yourself why no other trucks attended or for that matter no public? Not trying to accuse anyone here of elitism but would it have mattered too much if any other vehicles attended your show be they WW2 or Post War? Once again out of 15 vehicles only 1 post war example and a civvy Landy show up to an MVT area event, ever think why? I am sure there are Post War owners in your area membership who would have turned out had they been of a mind to, but then we get into the "clique" syndrome which is prevalent in most area's from what I can make out. I speak of this from personal experience with my area of the MVT and this can be confirmed by many other members here. I can cite one incident out of many where Post War owners had their vehicles deliberately placed in an area away from WW2 vehicles for no good reason (no related diorama's were operating at that event) and this was at an area meet not a large show, so it just goes to show that there is a justifiable reason most Post war owners are "pissed off" with the attitude they receive and that they are not "paranoid" or as you put it "suffering from a slight persecution complex". I am speaking from the viewpoint that this has happened to me on too many occasions and I am one of those "pissed off" people I speak of. Does it make me any more biased towards Post War vehicles? Not on your life, I enjoy Military Vehicles whatever their era and whilst it might appear that I am trying to "thrust" my viewpoint on others what I am in fact trying to do is bring to the attention of those who run the areas and main clubs that there IS a divide out there that they need to be addressing as it is causing more and more people to move away from "club" related events by forming their own groups. "Tossing the lit match onto GWT's liberally sprinkled petrol and watching the flames lick skywards"

Jack I dont think its a question of winning In fact that sort of attitude is what goes towards making the difference between Post war and WW2 such an issue. I am sure I speak for most of the Post War owners here in saying we are not trying to "win" anything other than recognition that we too own MILITARY vehicles and not some undescript piece of crap that a lot of WW2 owners seem to think we own. An MV show should be just that, a show for ALL MV owners not just a select few

Funny thing with the Armour though Jack We often get WW2 vets come up to us with our Post War bits and pieces and they INSIST that they have used them during their time in service. Just goes to show I guess that like a Jeep all bits of armour appear the same to some people :roll: :-D

Hovering again Lee?? :evil: :evil: :evil:

I think you might find that is more due to the fact that it is Armour Jack rather than interest in vehicles persay.

Dear oh dear oh dear !!!!! One does'nt want to get me started on this particular subject as I will wax a little less than lyrical, in fact the expeletives will be red hot and rolling off the page if I really get my teeth into it. It is my Saladin that adorns the MVT main page so in some respects I am a little biased but with that said I will just speak about what we have found this year alone. As Lee has already stated we as a group put on what was advertised as a Post War event at the beginning of the show season this year and deliberately made sure that WW2 vehicles were not left out as that in our opinion would not be correct according to the ethos that supposedly surrounds the whole idea of being Military Vehicle owners. Since then we have organised or attended some 15+ events this past year continuing in that same vein. There has been no discrimination regarding WW2 vehicles not being allowed to attend, nor has there been any form of seperatism displayed or even hinted at by those of us who have attended towards WW2 vehicle owners. Yet here again it is Post War vehicle owners en masse who are being discriminated against just because we don't own something that can be atributed to have "served" during a specific period in time. If truth be known manufacturing during the war years contributed to the extensive amount of WW2 vehicles being available even now, production was sometimes into the tens of thousands and what with most of the armies in free europe being re equipped with American vehicles due to political reasons, its no wonder there are so many of them on the MV scene. That said however there are vehicles that although they may have been built during that specific time, that have never seen service or action during WW2. That added to the fact that if one so wished one could build a Jeep totally out of parts readilly available from a variety of sources in my opinion makes life a little easier for those people who follow the WW2 route. Due to the limited production runs of some Post War vehicles it is in fact a lot harder to obtain spares or parts required for their restoration as stocks of such have in some respects long been depleted or are sold at such a high premium that one has to take out a small mortgage just to keep them on the road. I personally like a lot of the WW2 stuff out there but perhaps I am a little more biased to the rarer bits and pieces that are in such short supply rather than the never ending lines of Jeeps and Jimmy's, and before anyone says I am knocking those owners believe me I am not. Its just that it appears to a lot of people that is all one sees in abundance at shows. But then again I suppose its horses for courses and as they say whatever floats your boat is the way most will go. I just feel its a shame that there is such a division in the main clubs associated with our hobby.

I am experiencing the same problems as Steve Can log in to the Forum as usual but the gallery wont let me in. Saying that cannot seem to log in to the Front page either. odd that as it showed me as logged in yesterday but wont allow it today. Any ideas??

May the sacrifice made by those whom never returned be remembered by those who enjoy the freedom their lives bought for us. In War there are no winners or losers, only casualties

Grab the bull by the horns Neil and drive her home :twisted: We normally drive the vehicles a 50 mile radius of home base but sometimes have been known to take them further. The drive will also get you a bit more used to the "Stolly Shuffle", not only that mate but you could always make a detour to the Bunker show :twisted: and use it as a staging point. You never know, you might see the cardboard cut outs we have of Stuart and Vicky as they are not going to be there :wink: Anyway great news to hear that another one of Alvis's finest will be on the local scene. 8)

Hi Neil What news on the Stolly?

Not a problem Stuart we are all there to help each other as much as poss. Just do what I said with your take off one and keep it in a side bin, ya never know when either of us will need one again. Dave said you had starter motor problems as well, do you need one of those ?

Richard Thanks for the tip and all the advice. Saved taking the entire unit out which would have held me up for most of the show season. The Old girl is selecting better than ever and seems all Ok on the test run today. Tomorrow will be a 20 mile run to check it again and all should be hunky dory. Owe you a drink mate, I'll make good on that at Beltring

Just had a possible update Maybe a bit of tracked coming as well :twisted:

Stuart If all goes well tomorrow and Saturday I'll be doing the same with the Saladin. :wink: Fingers crossed mate

Neil you are smaller than me and I manage it :roll: just :wink: Have to see if you fit in mine next time its out

Only when he doesnt stop for a lash :roll:

Ahhhhh That must be the one Chris, knew I'd seen one somewhere.

I seem to remember seeing one of those under restoration somewhere Clive. Mean looking piece of kit I must say :twisted:

Neil Been a while since ive been in the cab of a Stolly. What sort of speedo is it? I just happen to have a spare Sally one (Instrument panel that is) if its the same and I am sure we could negotiate a fair price for it if it suits. Let me know mate

I hope not Jack otherwise Neils been sold a pup (no bonnet on a Stolly ) Good looking machine Neil lets hope the finances go through quickly for you. Best of luck mate

Just cos you can dance in my turret and cant swing a cat in yours

Thats another fine mess you've got me into :roll: Good as that leaves us more time to play with the Sally

Book might be that Lee but if you read it it also states the Sally was the first in development and not the Sarry So even Bill Munro got it wrong :roll: