FV601 (R.I.P.)

Makes one wonder if they are doing this on percentages of vehicle owners. Would have thought however that more than a 1/6th of the MVT membership were PW owners :roll:

Pete, in all honesty I dont think a directive from above will be the answer as this sort of thing is at grass roots level. I know that as a "group" we have grown considerably due to our pro active welcoming of newbies at meetings and due to that now have a lot of the older ones doing much the same. In regards to this just being an MVT thing, I can also look back to my first IMPS area meeting and remark on the difference, I was welcomed by members before the meeting started and got involved in some good conversations, The area secretary also made a point of spending a considerable time with me to get to know me a little better and all in all I found it a much pleasanter experience. Could this be as Nick said, that it is a more localised thing? I doubt it as the local MVT areas are much the same. Could it be that IMPS were a breakaway from the MVT all that time ago and therefore have a different mindset towards newbies? That one I will let you all think about.

Make you 100% right there Chris One thing though, since when were Chieftains being built in 1998? Makes me wonder if it just might be a Challenger 1

As an Essex area member I can only speak as I find. We normally have an attendance at meetings of 20-30 people, sometimes it depends on local traffic situations at other times it depends on whether the call has gone out for a greater number to attend (AGM and suchlike). Feedback from those who do not attend varies from location of meeting, to "not wanting to be involved in the politics". Once again we are talking about a fairly large county spreading from the outskirts of London, up to the Norfolk/ Suffolk border and out to the east coast, so all in all, a big catchment area which according to main MVT has over 200 members registered there. Meetings are held pretty much in the centre of the county at the "Crown" ph in Sandon, Chelmsford, which is OK for those living reasonably near, but involves sometimes over an hours drive for those living further afield. We seldom see new faces at the meetings and even if we do they normally only attend the once or twice never to be seen again other than at shows/events. Now I know the "get together thing" is not for everyone who joins the MVT and as such in our case if we had the supposed 200+ members all decide to turn up for a meeting, we would not be able to have it due to size of venue. However one would expect an increase of attendee's given the fact that new members are joining all the time. I can remember turning up for my first meeting, not knowing anyone there and having to check with the barstaff that I had the right venue as the place was empty, then finally seeing people come in and move to the meeting room, go and sit myself down at a table and have not one person speak to me the entire time I was there. I was lucky enough to already know some members who were not in attendance at that time so persisted in attending the meetings finding that we were in a "group apart" from most who attended. The thing that got me though was that if I had been of any different a nature, I would have washed my hands with the bother of attending due to the initial reception I received. This is not a knock at the Essex area as Berni has stated in the other thread that she experienced much the same when she joined up. I would think then that this might be a prevalant thing that might occur in many areas. To me it shows a "closed doors" mentality that does little if anything towards the promotion of the hobby and is therefore apathetic in its own nature. Lets face it, if new members are not welcomed when they have taken the trouble to attend the area meetings they will not bother to attend and as such will not provide the neccessary input the hobby requires to keep its momentum. We dont have to like everyone we meet I know, but we have all been bitten by the same bug and as such have a common ground on which we can all work on so why should it be so difficult to assimilate the newbies into our folds?

I can feel another ode coming on :evil: :evil: Dont cry Jack :nono: Got a bit of a feeling this just might run and run in one vein or another

And the Specsaver observation prize goes to Drumroll Mark :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: (only kidding mate )

In wholehearted agreement with you here Berni, one question springs to mind though, why then are'nt the MVT doing something to help bridge that divide within the club? The experience you had yourself whilst the owner of a PW is one indicative of a lot of areas and whilst your area is lucky to have a more understanding viewpoint it would appear to be in the minority I am sad to say. I am not alone in experiencing a similar beginning on my introduction to our local MVT and would hasten to add that it was not until we "took the bull by the horns" so to speak that the attitude towards us has changed. We are still looked upon as a bit of a thorn in some peoples sides but since an area meeting when all was aired things have indeed changed albeit slowly. Once again this is not so much a go at WW2 owners but more a call for the MVT to actually do something about this instead of allowing it to propogate further. I am not of a political bent and in all honesty all I want o do is to be able to take my vehicles to shows and place them on view to the general public as well as other owners. I am saddened however by the seeming neccessity of "baptism by endurance" suffered by newbies to some MVT areas. How many of them have not had the perseverance to continue to turn up just as you did? I can only speak for our area with a supposed membership of 200 people, we in fact rarely see more than 25-30 at our monthly meetings and they are nearly always the same faces. It makes me wonder why more do not attend or perhaps they have attended in the past and suffered much the same as you and I. As I say mate I just dont know

Might just be a good idea then Chris Richard if you let me know what you are looking for, we might be able to do a deal.

On checking it over Richard the silencer seemed to be OK bear in mind that was just a superficial glance. Will bear it in mind when I get to grips with the beast on delivery as first jobs are to strip all the tinwork, engine, transmission and internals off and go to town with the sandblaster inside and out.

Was thinking of going along those lines Chris Just need to find one going cheap :evil: Know anyone who's got a non runner and wants shot of it?

Was on the lookout for a vehicle to get my teeth into and was toying with getting a WC63 but on an off chance came across this little gem whilst on an excursion to pick up some roadwheels for a mate's 432. http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e211/Daemon1/jtferret3.jpg[/img] http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e211/Daemon1/jtferret2.jpg[/img] http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e211/Daemon1/jtferret1.jpg[/img] I know she looks a state but with the exception of the rear engine deck she is all there including the flotation screen. I take delivery shortly after Christmas as we need to shuffle a few things around at my storage facility, after that it will be a long haul to get her back into shape. Will try and keep all posted on progress as we go.

I would personally advise that you look before you buy as some of the early deac's were not done in that sympathetic a manner. I scoured the militaria fairs for a long time before coming across one that I thought good enough to pay the money for. All of the deac work carried out on the one I purchased has been done with the display of the weapon in mind and as such does not show to any great extent. Take a look http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e211/Daemon1/123.jpg[/img] http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e211/Daemon1/213.jpg[/img] http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e211/Daemon1/12.jpg[/img] http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e211/Daemon1/22.jpg[/img] In the second picture it shows a round starting to be chambered, this cannot be done but I had managed to set it up to look like it could by using the bolt lock. Fourth picture shows the slot cut made in the breech according to deac regs which in this particular weapon is concealed when the c o c k ing lever is placed back in the closed position. I had found on other pre 95 deac's that this slot had been cut in the underside so being on display at all times and in fact weakening the magazine chute. My only complaint, if you could call it that, is that where the pressure bearing surfaces of the bolt have been ground away it causes the bolt lock to be a little tempermental in operation due to the lack of area left on the bolt to hold it in position. All other deactivation has been carried out so that it is hidden by the forestock woodwork and includes gas port being slot cut, piston tube opened by grinding and the barrel slot cut with a rod welded. The old girl field strips as per original, c o c k s and dry fires so is good in all respects other than it will never fire a round again. The reason the armourer tool is required is due to the main spring being retained in the stock, and from experience in the field with the real thing I would advise using the tool if you can get one as the spring is under a lot of compression already. The Aussie version is identical to our own in nearly all respects as it uses inch parts and not metric, however there are some variations on the rear sight. The Heavy barrelled version was classed as LSW and was never issued in the UK. Deac versions of these were available at Beltring this year from Withams and being classed as a LMG therefore followed different deac regs ( parts not welded up and able to field strip c o c k and dry fire). Yes we used to play with them in the field and obtain full auto, but the armourers used to get the hump after having to replace the barrels on a more than normal frequency. Allways tried to find the man with the Mk3 Bren as the mags were a direct swap thereby increasing ones ammunition carrying capability (2 bren mags to 3 SLR). All in all one of the best weapons I have had the opportunity to use

I feel "Ode to a Scammell" coming on :evil:

Hi Ian Good to see you made it here from the other place :wink: Jack it's about time you took your Man truck out and about Od did "Ode to a Jimmy" worry you a little :evil:

Poetry Clive!!!! I dont know what you mean :evil: Time for me to have a guess I think, But should I give my answer in rhyme??? Cheiftain Driving training aid (simulator) Did I get it, Did I get it???

At the moment Neil we are a Saladin short of doing just that but with a bit of luck that might just be addressed by early next year Not sure if you have seen the picture of my old girl in service in Aden but it shows it in such a troop on patrol, here take a look. http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e211/Daemon1/john_tucker3.jpg[/img] Would'nt be able to do the Aden thing but I'm pretty sure we could get a good crack at normal operational procedure :evil: (whatever that is :roll:) Much the same as yourself there is no denial that I also have an interest in WW2 kit/vehicles and your sentiments re making up your own mind about what I can and cannot do are much the same as my own. Yes there are blinkered ones on both sides of this argument as there will allways be in any such debate, but it is up to the more sensible ones amongst us to attempt to suppress the George Orwell Animal Farm Mentality ( All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others .) that appears to be prevelant a lot of the time. The majority of us (or at least I hope so) in this hobby are in it for all the right reasons, preserving history as well as the vehicles, getting the movement more into the public's eye by actually using the vehicles as often as possible and last but not least, the enjoyment/fun/crack (and sometimes headaches, skinned knuckles, empty wallets) , call it what you will, of having something green and mean. I know my Saladin or ambulance would be out of place in a WW2 setting, but at a gathering of MV's, be they WW2 or otherwise, with the overall intention of promoting the hobby in general, I still fail to see why, if I so choose to attend, my vehicle and others that do not form part of the main theme of the show cannot be there for the interest of the public. Bit of a tongue in cheek question here. Is it because the owners of the WW2 vehicles fear that more interest will be shown to the PW stuff? I personally would'nt think so as we have already ascertained that most of the time they cannot tell the difference. Who knows mate.

I think that it would have been relevant to do so if there had been a MV section being displayed there as well Graham. After all there were not many motorised vehicles available to the Victorians in general other than Steam powered. Perhaps you have missed the posts that state the understanding of specific themed events. Its more a case that quite a few of these themed events are being put on with a tag to being MVT associated and as MVT members we are wondering why we should not be allowed to attend with our own vehicles placed in an unthemed area. After all the MVT membership is not made up of entirely WW2 vehicle owners and as such I was of the understanding that as a member of the MVT I could attend any shows that are affiliated with it. Perhaps I am wrong in my thinking of this and if I am it would be of interest to hear the official MVT standpoint on this.

Must have been working overtime on those two :evil: :evil: Here's one for ya :wink: (To the tune of Beverly Hillbilly's) Ode to a Jimmy Now let me tell you a story bout a man named Neil Just about tall enough to see over a steering wheel He was out one day just a riding in his truck When out of the blue there came a cry of F--K!!! Oil there was Black Gold Texas Tea Now the next thing ya know old Neil is in despair Throwing off his helmet and tearing out his hair Drops to his knees and then begins to sob "This bloody thing's gonna cost a couple of bob" Big end gone Rod through block Metal bits in road Along comes a Stolly driven by a jolly chap Steering out of the way of all the Jimmy's crap Pulled up alongside asking "do you need a hand?" I guess your in luck as I'm carrying sand Bags that is For the MG post Lots of em Old Neil looks like he's from the walking dead As he lifts up his eyes to the jolly smiling head Saying "but you are one of those Post War chaps" The driver said "dont worry mate I dont think Jimmy's are crap" Dated maybe A little ropey on the brakes Bloody cold in the winter So he hops from the heights of the Stolly to the floor (You have to do that as a Stolly's got no door) Picks up a piece of metal that used to be round "Looks theres another, its your bearings that i've found" White metal bronze bits showing through Still hot to the touch Now Neil just shakes and continues to sob mumbles about going to a show with the WW2 mob Imagine what they'll say when you tow me in with this They'll rib me to hell and take the bloody pi ss shunned he'll be blackballed cast out Now the moral of this story is sad but true There will allways be disparity between me and you You'll continue to think that Post war sucks And I wont change your mind even for a million bucks Shame that is narrow minded sinful Thanks go to Jed Clampett, Granny, Elly May and Jethro :evil: :evil: :evil:

Correct me if I am wrong but the Dodge is the model with 6 wheels yes? If so I envy you as I was seriously considering getting one before the Mk4 Ferret came up. Will be interesting following your progress in restoring both of them. Best of luck mate (And yes, before y'all say it a PW owner does like WW2 kit :evil: :evil:)

Something found on B Series engines is that the condensor even when replaced with a NOS one can be at fault as they tend to lose their capabilty after time on the shelf. We normally get over this particular problem by fitting a modern day Landy one. Not sure if this could be a fix for you but its worth a try

In the case of Land Rover the Heritage Museum may be of assistance in finding out the date of manufacture. If you have the chassis number they should be able to provide you with the relevant details Hope this is of help

For Mr Stevens :evil: (Neil not Clive) :wink: There once was a chap with a Jimmy Who's wheels suddenly went "all a shimmy" It was not a Diamond T That came to his plea But a Foden Recovery from REME So his pride then it took quite a knock So much so that it put him in shock Which was made so much worse When a Series 3 H e a r s e Offered him a lift up the block The driver leant out and said "Hi!" "Care to ride in this MV of mine?" "Cos a Jeep is a curse" "And a Jimmy's much worse" "But in a Landy, you'll allways be fine" Now old Neil was all of a quiver And his face was the colour of liver when on the way back to camp Was a chap with a Champ dragging a Willy's out of the river Now this rhyming is off of my chest I think now I'll get back to what I do best That is champion the cause of what is Post Wars Cos ALL MV's are the best Before anyone actually treats this as a serious statement please rest assured it is posted in jest :evil: :evil: :evil:

Once again this particular point has been covered in so much that it is recognised that there are events where PW vehicles would be out of place in the diorama being portrayed. But again I ask why cannot an area be set aside for those owners of PW vehicles who would wish to attend? And lets be perfectly honest here how many Hodgkiss Jeeps or post war Dodges or Jimmy's for that matter pass themselves off as being WW2? Another point would be that if you are trying to be historically correct especially in the context of say. the redball express, why then are there no negro drivers of the trucks employed? Not only that why are'nt all the vehicles involved in such carrying the markings showing they are from the same division/battallion/company. etc.? And yes I know I am appearing to be a little pedantic in citing such but it is those of you who are citing why we as PW owners should'nt be at such a show who are doing the same. I do not condemn your choice in vehicle or your desire to display it in as authentic a manner as possible, I do however take umbrage that I am being excluded from attending shows I would gladly attend be it for the choice in vehicle I have made. As for the "romantic" aspect, I too have had MOP's speak long and knowledgably about how they used to drive a vehicle like mine in the desert campaign (refering to the Saladin here) only to find out that it never saw that campaign due to its not being made until much later. This actually includes Vet's as well so it would appear that they can make mistakes as well. In fact there are more and more MOP's remembering their PW years of National service or time in the forces who come up to us at shows and say that they remember driving an RL, saw service with 4 RTR and drove Saladin's, Were part of a recce troop driving Ferrets in Cyprus on UN duties. Biased? I dont think I am as I was called upon to judge a local IMPS event earlier this year and with the exception of the Armour award which had to go to a PW vehicle as it was the only one attending, the majority of awards went to WW2 vehicles. As an aside though best in show did go to a PW vehicle but that was not my decision. :wink:

It is good to know that you have at least noticed it being there Clive as well as admitting that it has been around that long. Tends to lean towards there being some credibilty in what is being said here from PW owners. Whilst the comment is perhaps a negative one in your eyes it is the feelings of more than just a few and because they are'nt taken very seriously only propogate the discord further. It is saddening to know that a founding member of a club that proports to encompass ALL MV's should see a genuine grievance as comical, but considering this has been brought to the attention of the management commitee on more than several occasions in e-mails does'nt really come as a surprise. In regards to whether people would have attended, in some respects that is a moot point as the opportunity was not given in this particular instance. In regards to the commitment of organising and running a show open to all era's. I can only draw on my own experiences of doing just that. With the organisation taking some 8-12 weeks prior to the event, the actual event weekend stretching into a 4 day one for those involved in set up and breakdown and finally debrief and date setting for a follow on event next year taking some 2 days. Commited? I would like to think my actions show that I was and are to any such event. I refer you to my earlier post regarding recognising that there are events where PW vehicles would be entirely out of place, once again I ask, why so many? I would ask however, why any PW vehicles that wished to attend could not be placed in a static setting thereby leaving the WW2 vehicles and owners to do their convoy bit? In regards to vehicle owners taking the time and looking the part, there are as many in the PW camp that do pretty much the same so WW2 does'nt have the monopoly on that particular trait :wink: I do respect your opinion on this matter Clive but I hasten to add that I am not entirely in agreement with it else I would not be posting to this particular thread. Is there a ready solution? I doubt it as you have already stated this gap has been around a long time. Hell mate I don't know, I imagine it will just go on ad infinitum until the "Old School" mentality fades into obscurity. Nuff said

You know what they say Tim Its a thankless task but somebody's got to do it :evil: