Richard Peskett

A little more on the 1920s 'subsidy' vehicles. Following the introduction of the scheme in 1924 these vehicles were a world apart from the left overs of WW1. Chance of further European conflict was forgoten so vehicles were designed for use in the desserts of North Africa and the Middle East, tropical conditions of central Africa and the India Office. Many had additional cooling capacity , possibly oil coolers and only canvas weather protection. The World's Carriers October 1924 and March 1925 has good detailed information on 30/40 cwt Albion, Crossley, Guy, Karrier and Thornycroft for WD use. From these first two axle vehicles came the demand for larger and the three axle varients appeared. Looking at the design of these vehicles I would think that there was little take up by civilian users and the subsidy claimed, most would have been sold direct to the WD, India Office, etc.. Richard Peskett.

I think that some of the confusion over quoted weights for these vehicles stems from the fact that where a vehicle is quoted as 30 / 40 cwt, the former is across rough terrain and the latter on reasonable roads. Back to Great War days the smaller lorries such as the Daimler 'CB' were lettered 'Load not to exceed 1 ton 15 cwt' whereas the manufacture quoted it as a 2 ton lorry, most larger vehicles were rated as 3 ton but after the war manufacturers immediately uprated them to at least 4 ton, further most were constructed in such a way that they were more than capable of carrying weights in excess of that. American tons were different from ours just to add to the confusion. Also no trade description act at the time and little previous experience within the haulage industry. On a more historical note the Heavy Motor Car order of 1904 coming into force 1/1/1905 the unladen weight, front axle weight and rear axle weight had to be displayed on the vehicle and the licence application had to include wheel diameters and widths , whether solid rubber or steel shod etc. all to be taken into consideration. Richard Peskett.

Matt paint: the final mix , well first point is to buy more than enough paint for the entire job, although mixed by suppliers to a spec. batches always vary slightly, experiment with the matting agent until it looks and dries out right, start with 2 parts finish to 1 matting, then add more matting, 1 to 1 is certainly too strong. Also remember the final colour is not that important as original the paint would have been made in a totally different way from today and without doubt there were great variations in shades and no body would have worried about that at the time. Somewhere I have the spec. of how to make the paint for WW1 US army, now virtually impossible to reproduce as some of the ingredients are probably illegal ! There are also matt or semi matt varnishes now available but again I suspect they are only intended for interior use. Richard Peskett.

Ref. Matt paint saga !. I first was involved with this when we restored the WW1 Thornycroft 'J' mobile anti-aircraft gun for the Imperial War Museum in the late 1980s. Under various parts we found the original colour . In those days we always used ICI Coach Finish ( brushing) on vehicles and consequently had the colour matched and to be supplied matt. When the paint arrived it was gloss but invoiced separately were tins of matting agent. Ensuing enquiries revealed that the matting agent destroys the varnish and therefore weatherproofing in paint and ICI would not supply it as a whole for fear of a subsequent claim. Anyhow 1 to 1 is total matt, having tried this it marked with even rubbing your finger across it, so we eventually found a suitable mix proportion that gave the paint some protection but looked ok. I think when you see the lorry at Duxford today it still looks good after 23 years. The paint reference for the colour I think is still available from other manufacturers under our name. The Pierce-Arrow of Grundons and Daimler 'Y' type of Ronald Harris were both finished in my workshop using the same colour and matting agent mix. Richard Peskett.

Ref. reply 1468. Golden rule , never tow or tow start a vehicle with worm drive axle ( unless you have a large bank account). We have seen the results of this in my workshop several times, in this field the Thornycroft 'J' type of the IWM had ben towed before they acquired it and the worm wheel carrier had broken up, another example is the Tillings-Stevens petrol electric of London's Transport museum which was towed when in storage at Wroughton with disasterous consequences. A worm always drives the worm wheel. The Fordson owners mentioned are quite correct. For general towing the half shafts should be taken out. Pioneer user, dealer and subsequent collector of historic commercial vehicles Jack Sparshatt gave me a lecture on this in the early 1960s. Fuel - we always put a couple of caps full of two stroke oil in the tank when filling the veterans we look after, it certain helps with the valves , in particular the atmospheric inlets. When we restored the IWM Thornycroft 'J' made the mistake of putting back on the engine all the original hot air pipes to the carb. it certainly did not like this after about 20 minutes of running, fuel was vapourising, disconnected them and it ran perfect. Richard Peskett.

I have looked at my original print, the no. on the side of the heavy tractor is definately 64 and both it and the lettering above have for some reason been partially obliterated ( not done on the original glass plate negative). The other tractor behind is probably very similar to the picture here although this one seems a little worse for wear and the Daimler name top front has again been obliterated for some reason. So far from my collection I have identified four different types of tractor being built at the time, also the first liason with other manufactures was with Clayton and Shuttleworth in 1908. The other lorry in the background may well be a 'CB' 2 ton which would have been in production at the same time , although I am not too sure that the partly visable wheel is part of it, makes it very short wheelbase if so. We are trying to get a copy of the Daimler stand entry from the applicable show catalogue which should answer all. Richard Peskett.

A little more on towing hooks, Alan is quite correct with his 'Subsidy Scheme' quotes. As we know a great number of American vehicles were purchased at the time and most of these did not have towing hooks, I don't think I have seen a picture of a Peerless with towing hooks at the front end, so just how important they were may be open to question as there appears to be no great rush to fit them to imported vehicles. The only vehicles I have seen are FWDs , Quads and Liberty class B .The US favouring a 'cow horn' type of hook as per the attached photo of a Liberty we restored several years ago. Towing hitches ( which do not feature in the 'Subsidy' specs.) also differ in that the UK ones appear to be a loose 'drop in' pin type whereas the US are sprung loaded hook and keep types. Again as not being included in the 'Subsidy' spec. it must have been thought that GS lorries would not tow trailers. Richard Peskett.

'It will all be over by Christmas', well, we all know it wasn't. Amongst a large collection of glass plate negatives of Daimler commercial vehicles pre 1915 I bought recently is this view of stand no. 236 at the R.A.S.E. Show , Wollaton Park ,Nottingham in the siummer of 1915. The stand would seem to have two of the then new 'Y' type 3 ton lorries and two of the heavy tractors on display. Already very much into serious war production, how did they find time to exhibit at such an event and include four vehicles which I am sure by then were desperately needed at the front ?. Richard Peskett.

According to the Complete Encyclopedia of Commercial Vehicles, Georgano, the plant was opened at Kitchener, Ontario in 1919 to help with the needs to supply new trucks post war. Richard Peskett.

Don't loose the plot over detail !., in my experience of restoration, at my workshops we have restored a considerable number of solid tyred vehicles incluiding WW1 military . Reasearching brings up all the best contraditions imaginable and the contents of my library and photographic collection will prove this beyond doubt. No one person did all the sign writing , mixed paint ,drilled holes in brackets etc. etc., so variations occur. Immediate priorities were cost and to get the job finished, not cosmetic. The London General 'bus company were a fine example of this , hardly any London bus is identical in finite detail and constant changes and imporovements were being made. The conclusion is when a restoration is a 'new build' whatever you do providing it is well researched it passes !. Richard Peskett.

Well spotted, some of my former property !. The Jeffery-Quad , serial no. 70237 was supplied new to the French Govt. in 1915. It was sold as war surplus in 1921 and purchased by the owners of the LeMans circuit where it was used for 'off road' maintenance and survived in use until the 1950s. Laid aside in a field at the circuit it was seen by my friend Nick Baldwin when he camped there at an early 1970s 24 hour race, subsequently a photo appeared in print in 'Old Motor' magazine a few years later. I decided I would quite like it and along with Tony Cornish who ran Harry Pounds yard at Portsmouth we went to LeMans for the weekend , incredible luck we managed to find the remains of the Quad in a thicket, established that it still belonged to the circuit owners, did a deal with them over the phone during the following week and just managed to retrieve it before the 1979 24 hour race. Still fairly complete mechanically except the radiator core had been torn out. Totally restored it over the next two years. Oddly, a vehicle very easy to find out information on as such an innovative design with its four wheel drive and four wheel steering it was very well written up in al the technical journals of the day. Also it has automatic locking differentials so as long as it has adhesion on one wheel it will travel. Rebuilt with standard US cab and the body ironwork came from a WW1 Fiat truck. Took part in the Brighton commercial run in 1982 and 1983. Sold it to my good friend Russell Cook about 4 years ago. Richard Peskett.

Sorry, picture got left off !. Richard Peskett.

Of passing interest herewith picture of a GS wagon plate in my collection, unfortunately I only have the plate !. Does anybody know who Metro or H & S were and the significance of the 'X' and '*' etc. ?. Richard Peskett.

I think it is a pre WW1 Maudslay bus / lorry chassis ex. Great Western Railway, I will have to do a little delving to confirm. It is only skeletal remains and therefore unfortunately falls into the no hope category. Richard Peskett.

Just to put the record right, this particular Holt is owned by a very good friend and customer of mine. It was imported from the U.S. several years ago and its history is not entirely known but it certainly had not seen service with the WD during WW1 and hence when restored it was not finished in WD livery. Richard Peskett.

Two contemporary pictures here, looks if it depends whether you are working or showing off !. Richard Peskett.

Reference the additional magneto: Included in the announcement of the Provisional Subsidy Schemme of September 1911 this included a 'Special Inducement' in the form of an additional £10 to the initial subsidy given to owners for them to carry a second magneto ready for use As usual , according to subsequent correspondence all was not what it seemed and if the £10 was spent on the additional magneto it was considered to be the property of the War Department. Richard Peskett.

Although many found a somewhat short lived existance ' stuffed and mounted' in parks and gardens of many of our towns and cities, I recently came across this paragraph in the Automobile Engineer for Febuary 1919. Buy now whilst stocks last !. Richard Peskett.

Part 2. Manufacture. All solid tyres came complete on the steel backing band, usually about 1/2 " thick, ready to be pressed on. First problems came early on in attaching the rubber to the steel band. A tyre band I removed from a 1907 Milnes-Daimler 'bus wheel gave an interesting insight into how this was done. The steel band had holes through it and the top surface had radial 'dovetail' maching in it. The rubber completely encased the band. The band could only be described as a reasonable fit to the wheel rim and was held in place with a steel loose ring each side bolted through the wheel rim therefore centralising the tyre band and holding it on. Later a process of bonding the rubber to the steel band was developed alleviating the necessity of retaining bands although sometimes a register was cast as part of the wheel rim, the tyre being pressed on up to it and narrow retaining clamps bolted onto the opposite side. The use of a register on one side solved the problem of centring the tyre on the wheel as usually the tyre overhung the rim by about 10mm each side. Gaps were left in the register to enable the band to be pressed off. The 'dovetail' machining was still used on the band surface. More recently improved adhesives have eliminated the use of dovetailing. Each size trye had a specific weight of rubber used. This came in strip form about 1/8" thick . The prescribed weight would be wound around the steel band , placed in a cast iron mould, this being in two halves hence often on a new tyre a mould line can be seen around the circumference of the tread. The entire is then placed in an autoclave and heated to the prescribed temperature when the rubber becomes one homogeneous mass, the mould has lettering cast into it which subsequently appears as raised lettering on the side of the tyre. A more recent process is similar but a mould is not used , heating is critical so as the rubber does not 'run away' and the product has to be machined to profile. Presses, fitting and usage to follow. Richard Peskett.

Whilst going through some back numbers of Veteran and Vintage magazine I found this letter from Tony Oliver, June 1974. Richard Peskett

Quite a lot has been written recently about the sizes and fitting of solid tyres so I hope this will explain and clarify some of the points raised. Sizes : Tyres always fell into two categories, American with all sizes in imperial measurement, UK / Continental virtually all sizes in metric. This may have been because pre 1910 a very high pecentage of commercial vehicles in use here were of continental origin ( some 700 De Dion & Milnes-Daimler buses running in London by 1907 ). By 1913 a situation of near chaos was approaching with dozens of different sizes being used by manufacturers. In mid 1913 a committee was set up by the SMMT to investigate this and produce a resolve. The outbreak of WW1 hastened this and in July 1915 as a basis for a new British Standard it was suggested that the 173 different rim sizes should be reduced to 6 and with universal tolerances to be used. All rim circumferences had a set minimum / maximum variation of 3mm. New sizes to be adopted were to be rim sizes of 670, 720, 741, 771, 850 and 881mm of which 670 and 741mm were to be dropped as soon as practical. Interestingly 670 was a popular steam wagon front size and 741 was widely used on the LGOC 'B' type buses, probably the largest users pre WW1. American sizes remained standard for rims size 26,28,30 and 34". Virtually all WW1 trucks had 30" front and 34" rear, e.g. marked 36 x 6 for 30" or 40 x 6 for 34". Another anomaly was that all imperial tyres were the same o.d. when new irrespective of width, e.g. 30" rim = 36" o.d. tyre and 34" rim = 40" o.d. tyre. Not so with the metric spec., with these the o.d. of a new tyre varied in diameter according to the width. e.g. a tyre would be marked in 3 dimensions, 880 x 120 for 720mm or 870 x 100 for 720mm. I will follow in due course with tyre presses, pressing on and usage. Richard Peskett.

Anybody thinking of putting this one back together The Automobile Engineer vol. 8 ,1918 has a comprehensive article on this model and later in vol. 9, 1919 it is included in the series of Military Transport Chassis - how they performed under war conditions. Picture attached of a well used example, as with many Daimler and A.E.C. chassis, the chassis number 1685 B appears painted on the cab side. Should also be stamped on the near side of the chassis frame about level with the cab side. Richard Peskett.

The CM article of Feb. 1927 is for the VSW model 'Rigid frame 6 wheeler'. Attached here is the CM buyers guide entry for Vulcan, Nov. 1927, curiously the VSW is not listed but this maybe as it was only sold to the WD. Richard Peskett.

A comprehensive article including photographs titled 'Austin Armoured Cars in service with the Polish Army' appeared in the Vintage Austin Magazine Vol.3, no.6, Summer 2001. Richard Peskett.

Further information on this model and how it should look , the chassis is reviewed in Commercial Motor 15.2.1927 and the later VSW semi-forward control varient in Commercial Motor 28.1.1930. Richard Peskett.