Richard Peskett

Having read in various threads of the re-emergance of vehicles released from Ireland in the early 1960s ( Lancia and Rolls-Royce) another has been recently bought by a West Midlands collector. Arriving here from Ireland in about 1962 it has rarely been seen in public since. Registered YI 6249 it was new in 1927 and fitted with the standard workshop body of WW1 period. It is assumed that at the time there were many of these bodies surplus and probably in 'as new' condition. A very similar body is on show at Duxford. The body is in very good sound original condition but unfortunately lacks all its machinery etc, any leads on this will be much appreciated. Richard Peskett.

I think the archive picture is a c.1909 Argyll. Richard Peskett.

The subject of fuel consumption of W.W.1 motor vehicles has been mentioned previously but I have now found tables from ASC Units, Second Army ,1917. Richard Peskett.

Mention of the Dorman engine - it would seem it first appeared as the 'JJ' model fitted into a Lacre 5 ton chassis at the Subsidy trials October 1913. Obviously successful it appeared in advertisements by the end of 1914 fully fledged for W.O. usage, at some point it became the '4 JO' which as previously mentioned was widely used. Richard Peskett.

Excellent pictures, I believe the one with WD lettering was in fact the 'prototype' this coming from the service fleet of garage lorries and was soon returned to those duties. Travel with the Foden steamer can only be described as 'exciting' . I have found another , this time a Glasgow built Caledon, not finding much favour with the WD but sold in reasonable numbers into civillian use no doubt as a very useful replacement for requistioned vehicles. Not too sure about the 'Express' part of the fleet name !. Richard Peskett.

Herewith close up of a Pagefield front end although the radiator is a replacement. The Pagefield 'WD type chassis' is well written up including the Dorman 4JO engine in the Automobile Engineer series 'Military Transport Chassis, Their Performance under War Conditions', issue for August 1919. Richard Peskett.

The best I have is the official list of tools and equipment as listed in 'Instructions ASC Units, Second Army , France 1917. Richard Peskett.

Did these lorries originate from Guiness ?. I have looked through various contemporary literature and to date can only find that by 1911/12 Guiness had 6 Straker-Squire motor lorries, the horse still being favourite... but Messrs. Cantrell and Cochrane, mineral water makers, Dublin had by 1911 at least 2 Milnes-Daimlers of the type used as armoured lorries. The cab roof outline would seem to match the roof line illustrated in reply no. 8 etc. Sorry about the poor quality photo but the original is on poor quality paper. Richard Peskett.

Re. the Guiness 'Daimlers', I believe these in fact to be Milnes-Daimlers which have no connection with the Coventry Daimler. These were built at Marienfelde, Berlin by the Daimler company ( who by now had changed their marketing name for cars to 'Mercedes' ) and sold here by G.F.Milnes who had obtained the sole selling concession for GB and the British Empire. The illustration in reply no.11 certainly shows the front features of a post 1907 model with pressed steel chassis frame etc. Somewhere I think I have a photo of one in its original form which I will endeavour to find. Richard Peskett.

Re the charabanc body, we have built a full size one on a Thornycroft 'J' chassis for a customer several years ago - do not even think about it !!. Seriously though, many hundreds were built on war surplus chassis after WW1 and in many cases were the foundation of very successful transport businesses. Richard Peskett.

The 'Tram Tank' excert appears in T & R.W. issue for 17th October 1918 not as stated, the main article on the system is issue 13th September 1917. Richard Peskett.

Thought this may be of interest as possibly one of the most unusual tanks constructed during WW 1. The Shanghai tramway system at the time was a very British institution and patriotic hence a tramcar was converted into quite a realistic tank for fund raising . The attached excert is from Tramway and Railway World September 1917. I am aware that several tramway systems converted cars for various 'Relief Funds' etc. but were there any other tanks ? Richard Peskett.

Why not make this lorry into a railway engine ?.An interesting image from Tramway and Railway World July 1918 of the Guildford factory with private railway siding and 'home made' locomotive. The availability of a railway connection must of been a great help to production during WW1. Richard Peskett.

I remember that in about 1964 five or six of these Lancias arrived here from Ireland , all lories except one armoured car, they resided in a sand pit at Burgess Hill for a time. All I think had the clutches missing for some reason. I used to go to the Southern Counties Car Auctions at Frimley Bridges, Hants ( this later became British Car Auctions) and on 16th April 1966 , Lot 31 was the Lancia armoured car which sold for £350. The lorries did the rounds for the next 20 years or so, 3 or 4 found their way into an Essex collection where one was restored out of the lot ( still at same location and owner). One other turned up at an auction at Newhaven ,Sussex, I think in the late 1980s , still missing the clutch. Richard Peskett.

Restorers take note !!. Going through some info. on the W.D. Subsidy Scheme 1912 ammended 1913 . Ignition: drawing no. 108A q.v. 'Leads to the different cylinders should be of colours to facilitate correct connections being made, and to be coloured as follows: Cylinder nearest radiator red, next green, next yellow, cylinder nearest dashboard blue'. I shall be carying out an inspection in due course. Richard Peskett.

Now we are onto fuel consumption herewith copy of official figures from the ASC for lorries purchased in 1913. Obviously these would return a better figure than those at the front. The mileage of the Thornycroft no. 95 works out at about 235 per week. Don't forget the Daimler 'CB' is only a 2 tonner and has the smaller 30 hp engine rather than the 40hp in the 'Y' type.( manufactures rating not RAC). I am always very suspect of claimed mileage and fuel consumptions as it was extremely difficult to keep proper records without mileage recorders fitted and you did not get an accurate receipt from your local friendly supermarket fuel retailer. Richard Peskett.

What row did I leave it in ?. Possibly not being able to beat the solid tyre dump numerically but certainly a substantial number of ambulances in this view , location unknown. Richard Peskett.

If my average of 22 weeks for a tyres life is taken, possibly a truck would run a maximum of 150 miles a week under such conditions ( this may well be less) then a tyre is lasting about 3300 miles . Any thoughts ?. Driving a solid tyre truck for 30 miles a day for 5 days would be no mean feat. Richard Peskett.

Tyres and sizes, back to no. 50. I have looked up some facts and figures from M of M statistics 1914 /18 and found the demand for solid tyres from the front in Oct. 1916 was about 5400 per week and between 20 /30 sizes ( so much for standardization ! ). In Nov. 1916 there were about 19900 trucks in France on solids which equates to about 119400 tyres which in turn equates to a tyre lasting an averager of about 22 weeks. Richard Peskett.

Will be interested to see any more images of the lorry buses Tim, they seemed to be somewhat camera shy as most I have seen are 'offficial' . Perhaps the very few bus enthusiasts of the day considered them unworthy of the camera. I have looked up a few more notes of interest on these vehicles in London. It would seem the London General first got the idea from experience gained when a lightening tube strike took place in February 1919, many civil servants in Whitehall etc. found great difficulty in getting to work so army lorries were used and subsequently made available for public use. With demobilization vastly increased numbers wished to travel and in the first half of 1919 congestion on bus, tram and tube became acute hence the introduction of the lorry buses. Used mostly on a limited stop basis and with no bell communication with the driver the conductor was issued with a whistle. Police regulations had to be considerably relaxed to allow the use of these vehicles and the General took advantage of this by putting into service more 'B' type buses in somewhat sub standard condition in khaki livery, again written 'Traffic Emergency Vehicle'. An all out railway strike in September / October 1919 brought them into their own and the official report quotes ' The lorry - omnibuses carried tremendous loads. Not only were they filled inside , but on the roofs whence lines of human legs protuded like a 'fringe'. Undoubtedly it was during this time that the lorry-buses experienced their maximum utilization'. It is also claimed that some 10,100,000 passengers were carried during their operational life in London. Richard Peskett.

Having started with the Tilling-Stevens lorry bus of Midland Red I have looked out some more information and photographs of the somewhat larger fleet of A.E.C. 'Y' types ( probably mostly 'YB' or 'YC' models) used by the London General Omnibus Company from June 1919 to January 1920. Officially known as 'Traffic Emgerncy Vehicle' and licenced to carry 27 passengers they retained their service paintwork. Purchased from the Ministry of Munitions (Disposal Board) whom eventually agreed to take them back to sell at auction, but a few found their way to other operators who used them as lorry buses for a short time before rebodying them a coventional buses or charabancs. Correspondence at PRO. Kew states 99 were provided direct from A.E.C. as new and unused and 81 from the Board of Trade. A memo from the War Office of May 1920 'can only trace 98 of the 100' , all very confusing as numbers do not add up. Correspondece continues with the LGOC for many months over the two 'missing' vehicles, never to be resolved. More on surviving A.E.C. 'Y' types later. Richard Peskett.

Further to the use of the Tilling-Stevens petrol-electric model TS3 by the WD in WW1, I have found a couple of photographs which clearly show some did have the more standard type of GS body. This is one of many purchased from the WD by the Midland Red bus company after WW1 . Owing to the desperate shortage of usuable vehicles linked with the rapid increase in people wishing to travel the Midland pressed into use on a temporary basis these vehicle which were known as lorry buses. A hasty conversion involving the use of the existing tail board and the fitment of seats seem to have sufficed. London also went down this road with some 180 ex. WD A.E.C. 'Y' types being used for the same purpose for a few months in 1919. Possibly the ultimate restoration project having a solid tyre WW1 lorry and a bus all in one !. Could this be the next winner of the best 'non bus' bus at Seaton ??. Richard Peskett.

Ref. posting no. 6 . The 'J' at the East Anglian Transport Museum, Lowestoft is probably the most original to survive. ( except for the front wings). Purchased by Lowestoft Corporation , possibly direct from Thornycrofts as reconditioned war surplus it came already Hampshire registered in 1920, for use as a tramway recovery lorry. In this guise it saw little use and managed to survive intact. I believe it still belongs to the Corporation and is well worth going to see if in the area although it does not venture out and is somewhat hemmed in. The bodywork is somewhat different from the usual g.s. truck design using very wide boards and I was always a little suspect that it may have been rebuilt but I have recently found the attached advertisement which confirms it is totally original. Richard Peskett.

Have delved into passed files and found the attached picture of the IWM Thornycroft when it came to my workshop for restoration. The Commer engine can just be seen under the bonnet. The gun was retained by the IWM and I think restored in their own workshops. Richard Peskett.

History of the Tilling-Stevens chassis coming up ; you are making me work hard. !. The chassis no. is 832 ( recent photo attached) and the quoted history is not correct. I first heard of the vehicle in Sept. 1964, as I mentioned in my Crossley tender notes recently Jack Sparshatt at Portsmouth was a good friend. Had a call one day to say he had a couple of lorries he did not want for his collection and would like them to go to a good home. At the time we were all very keen and memebers of the 'Worthing Historic Commercial Vehicle Group'. Anyhow Brian Johnson and I went one Saturday morning in Oct. '64 to Jack's Farlington depot to view what was on offer. Outside on some adjacent waste ground was a complete Leyland chassis appearing to be in reasonable order , possibly just post WWI 'G' type. ( many years later this became the basis for one of Mike Sutcliffe's excellent 'bus restorations). Inside was the Tillings, complete chassis except the radiator core had been taken out. The deal was that he would like the 'Group' to have them but to make it a legal sale we would have to pay for them. A price of 1/- each was agreed and duely paid by the 'Group' this included delivery to Bognor Regis. Unfortunately I never asked Jack where they came from so in all truth the Tillings history is unknown from sale by the WD untill Sept. 1964, but both vehicles had never been left outdoors for any length of time. The Leyland went of in one direction and eventually ended up as just mentioned. The Tillings was taken on by a group member who was very interested in Southdown buses, and at this time he discovered that the Southdown had bought chassis 830 from the WD and subsequently used it as a bus so the grand scheme was to alter the identity of 832 to that of 830. Nothing came of the project, eventually changing hands a couple of times, in the interim a 1915 Birch built double deck bus body was obtained but this had started life on a Daimler 'CC' chassis for the 'British' company in London and was not suitable for the chassis. It eventually was bought by my good friend as in the picture. The 'British' body has now been reunited the an appropiate 1913 Daimler 'CC' chassis and the Tillings has a much better future in front of it. Richard Peskett.