Richard Peskett

In more rural locations , often to and from market towns this type of vehicle enjoyed a spell of popularity in 1910 / 1920s. Scout Motors of Salisbury built several similar dual purpose vehicles but many were smaller based on Ford TTs etc. Southdown Motor Services of Brighton some of their buses had compartments behind the driver to carry milk churns colected and delivered at farm gates. Names were popular , even into the 1950s the local bus service Grayshott to Farnham used small Dennis 20 seaters always refered to as the 'Whippet'. Vehicle names possibly originate from pre 1904 registration act when in some road events 1901 /2 such as London to Oxford, London to Southsea the cars were given names displayed printed in large letterpress on boards back and front to identify them. Richard Peskett.

I have found that the use by Tilling-Stevens of the Solex radiator was pre WW 1 in 1913, Picture herewith of a 40 h.p. petrol electric supplied to the War Office. Richard Peskett.

The majority of commercial vehicles from this period simply do not have electrics unless its a car based derivative. As always there are exceptions. The use on fire engines was more common place as Tom's catalogue shows, beyond that Daimler at Coventry more or less fitted as standard dynamo lighting to there range of 3 ton buses /lorries models 'CC' and 'CD' 1912/14 using a gear driven dynamo, probably of CAV or Brolt manufacture and most of these also had dual ignition. The other exception is the London General bus fleet. From 1912 onwards experiments were carried out on electric lighting and in the main successful resulting in virtually their entire fleet of almost 3000 vehicles being fitted with electric lighting by 1914. A variety of makes were used but the friction driven dynamo off of the flywheel was common practice. Electric starters for heavy vehicles was still then some way off. One of the earliest examples I have found is that there is provision for an electric starter moter made in the crankcase construction of the USA class 'B' Liberty truck 1917. Many years ago I bought a 1937 A.E.C. Matador ( the pre war goods version not the WW2 type) fitted with a 6 cylinder petrol engine, had provision for electric stater motor but had never had one fitted. ( cost implication ! ). Further , a problem with fitting diesel engines to buses/goods chassis in the late 1920s was the provision of a good enough starter motor. Richard Peskett.

A little further research has revealed that Halley built their own engines from about 1911 and previously had used Crossley and Tylor products, Richard Peskett.

Hopefully what follows is an outline history of Schneider - The Schneider armaments company produced engines and components for Brille at their Le Harve plant 1905 /8. Brille went into liquidation in 1908 and Schneider carried on building commercial vehicles under their own name. Many of these were fitted with the circular radiators made by Ets. Goudard & Menesson , the makers of Solex carburetors. Schneider carried on at Le Harve and also Le Creusot and Paris until 1914 . They then became part of an amalamation with Usines Bouhey & Ets. Farcot , manufacturers of heavy military equipment to form Souma. The Schneider name and round radiator was still used into the early 1920s and many buses and municipal vehicles were supplied in addition to military transport. Of associated interest is that Tilling-Stevens used the circular radiator on a few vehicles around 1920. I suspect the chassis in question is a Souma in disguise !. Richard Peskett

Point missed here I think, Halley probably did make their own engines as rightly said , around Glasgow there would be plenty of materials and skills for scope of ' in house' engine manufacture. Palladium for example were a smaller organisation and bought in engines and other components, the Continental in the lorry chassis was replaced later in 1915 with the British built Dorman engine. The engine in question has detail differences but models would have changed year in etc. and the Palladium use was probably just one of several applications at that time. Richard Peskett.

I think you will find this has been here for at least 25 years and was originally a Paris dustcart, some of these had a long working life and survived well into the 1950s. Richard Peskett.

I think you will find the engine is a c.1914 Continental as per attached and fitted into a Palladium chassis Richard Peskett.

I think the engine may be American ? , a couple of points - the priming tap shown is identical to those of the set of originals that were in my Jeffery-Quad. Park Drop Forgings , incorporated May 1907, were crankshaft manufacturers in Ohio, merging with Ohio Gears in 1967. Richard Peskett.

A couple of observations, front wheel brakes and relatively small diameter solid tyred wheels, helper springs at back, steel back plates to the brake drums, all quite unusual combination with solids ??. Richard Peskett.

I have never seen a picture of a steam wagon with gun mounted but in this business you never stop learning !.. Anything substantial like the Thoprnycroft J type mobile anti-aircraft gun lorry it requires levelling / jacking beams underneath to which steam wagons generally do not lend themselves . We restored the J type at Duxford for IWM in the late 1980s. A good book covering much of this type of vehicle is 'War Cars -British Armoured Cars during the First World War' by David Fletcher, very well illustrated. Richard Peskett.

The truck in view is a 15 TER Fiat , 30 cwt. Michelin disc wheels, 880 x 120mm beaded edge tyres. Richard Peskett.

Robert - a totally original vehicle, as with virtually all London buses by course of overhaul all parts become interchanged, one of the great technical points about London vehicles, a policy still with the 'Routemaster' today. Just in excess of 2800 had been built from mid 1910 until August 1914. B 2737 comprises all contemporary parts including the engine and gearbox which has been returned from Australia ( 30 plus were sold there secondhand in 1922/3, ) . We are undertaking the work for London Transport Museum ( TFL) .It will make its debut during the summer of 2014. Richard Peskett.

There were only ever 50 'X' types built used for evaluation purposes as a forerunner to the 'B' . I think these are being confused with the MET Daimler CC's of which there were in excess of 200, many being converted to lorries in the LGOC North Road coachworks before departure. These were the first to go overseas, used by the RND and proved useful in the evacuation of Antwerp. Some were captured by German forces, still in their blue and cream MET livery. First ' B' types to be used were single deckers only 8 months old as ambulances working from UK ports in August. The double deck 'B' types started to go in September. Richard Peskett.

Confirming the identity of the vehicles in the stereo picture. Its almost certain that the buses in the background are LGOC 'B' types although there could be some MET Daimler CC's about . The lorry is certainly an LGOC 'B' type ,it may have started life as a bus and been rebodied as a lorry but many of the batch in production at August 1914 were bodied as lorries from new. Also most of the last 250 were all requistioned /sold to the WD as these had the slightly larger engine with a bore of 115mm in lieu of 110mm. Although giving excellent service the 'B' type was not as strong in general terms as the ' purpose' built lorries and those bodied as lorries spent most of their time in use as stores lorries at bases or on home front duties. A considerable number of the bus bodies were transfered to US built Riker chassis. Virtually all of the LGOC 'X' type had been taken out of service by 1914 and bodies probably transferred to new B type chassis, I have never found any evidence that the X type served with the WD. A London Gereral Omnibus company record ledger has recently 'surfaced' and this in due course will no doubt provide further information on the subject. I have B 2737 currently in my workshop. Richard Peskett.

Interesting the photographs of the tyres, they are in fact ' cushion' tyres which have a hollow inside instead of being solid throughout, this was a later idea , probably from 1920 onwards. Mackintosh made them hear in the UK and smaller sizes were popular on Ford TT trucks and buses. Richard Peskett.

In general terms there were two different rim sizes for imperial solid tyres, usually 30" for front and 34" for backs, these would then be in widths of 4",5" and 6" , rears were available in similar widths with twins on the back. There were odd exceptions when the rears were in one width and then having two or three grooves in them, more often found on cranes and plant applications. UK metric sizes are much more complicated with differing overall diameters according to the width. With imperial sizes there would normally be .5" steel backing band and then 2.5" of rubber making up the additional 6" over rim diameter, the tyres obviously coming complete with the steel backing band. Richard Peskett.

Interesting that these 'original' tyres still turn up. I would assume that these tyres are in fact 40 x 6 for 34" rim, most US trucks have imperial size tyres whereas UK usuallly have metric sizes ( one of the first metric standard in the UK motor industry 1915). The 40" represents the overall tyre diameter when new, 6" the width and 34" the press on rim size. The FWD is unusual as it has the same size tyres all round which I believe to be 36 x 6 for 30". From this I would assume these tyres are not for an FWD but rear for a more standard type of US truck. Fronts would be 36 x 6 for 30" Richard Peskett.

Now for the easy part, the car with crane attached is a post 1916 Ford 'T', what a wonderful conversion !. The last picture appears to be carrying a 'box kite' so possibly pre WW1. Richard Peskett.

Nos. 1 and 2 - 15 TER Fiat probably. Richard Peskett.

They are in fact a 'Danks' wagon built by Frederick Danks at Oldbury, Worcs, mostly built during the first world war period and had locomotive type boilers and looked somewhat like a Foden. Probably less than 20 were built. Richard Peskett.

For full detail of the Palladium chassis see Automobile Engineer, January 1917. Both front and back axles are Timken and it should have a 4JO Dorman engine. With reference to the Acason they were built in Detroit, Timken axles and Waukesha engines, possibly never imported into the UK.. Richard Peskett.

I believe that in the foregoing correspondence there is some confusion between what is a lorry built to 'Subsidy' specification and what is a 'Subsidised' lorry. A scheme was published as early as 1907 regarding the registration of 'military ' motor vehicles. This scheme scheduled terms for hire or purchase of motor vehicles by the War Department and covered a wide range of vehicles . Hiring rates included trailers, drivers and assistants and terms of purchase included depreciation rates with the final agreed value 'of current market plus 25% '. Gradual interest in schemes moved on and by 1912 a new scheme was drafted with detailed attention to standards in manufacture etc,. In January 1913 the first major trials took place but only three manufacturers entered ( Commer .Halls and Thornycroft) but two others ( Dennis and Maudslay) unofficially joined in the proceedings as 'free-lance ' entries. Extensive corresponce followed in Commercial Motor during June 1913 in the form of a five part article ' The War Office Subsidy Muddle' in which considerable critism was levelled at the W.O. The underlying problem leading to all this correspondence is the fact that vehicles were being accepted that did not conform with a most interesting paragraph and photographs of Waring and Gillows Leylands that were granted subsidy status but did not comply !. ( Commercial Motor 12.6.1914, page 327. ). This is a vast and complex subject ; France ,Germany and Austria also had schemes in place by 1914. Commercial motor of 15.4.1915 page 127 actually illustrates a 'Receipt for one impressed vehicle'. Richard Peskett.

Almost certainly a Milnes-Daimler , has a replacement radiator of more sturdy construction. Probably owned by Thomas Tilling who had a large fleet of these vehicles, some former buses and others which were lorries from new, carrying mail out of London on contract before the Post Office bought their own vehicles. Richard Peskett.

Robert, A very interesting question. The vehicles involved probably total about 700, I have found conflicting figuers in 'official' documents. It almost certainly included vehicles which joined the various schemes on offfer before the final scheme following trials of 1913, hence it was a great assortment .At least one manufacturer 'unofficially' entered the trials by following the official route at the same time to prove their vehicle was as good as others complying with W.O.spec. Immediately arguements broke out in the trade press ( Commercial Motor ,Motor Traction) why certain makes were included contrary to the original specification issued by the W.O. ( the inclusion of chain drive vehicles etc.). As so often in these cases the tide of time rapidly overtook with the W.O. eventually having to accept what was on offer. A prime example was ( London ) Daimler CC and LGOC 'B' type buses being handed over to the W.O. from August onwards in 1914 with totals finally exceeding 1000 vehicles, many giving yeoman service for the entire conflict. In all my research over the years I am convinced that somewhere there is a register of vehicles 'enlisted' in the schemes and also a register of those which were actually requistioned in August 1914. This/these items have completely eluded me which includes PRO Kew ( probably the most likely source) . My good friend David Fletcher ( ex. Tank Museum) has come up against the same wall !. Disposal lists are equally difficult although there is limited info. at Kew. Richard Peskett.