fv1609

Everything! I am over weight (the vehicle that is for AA etc) I am my own most of what I carry has been needed in by many years of breaking down. starter motor dynamo generator regulator panel complete carb + extra diaphragms, jets etc set of 6 brake hoses brake pipe + flanging device ignition coil distributor spare: rotor, condenser, carbon brush, points, distr cap fuel pump set of plugs set of ignition cables track rod ends accelerator linkages & connectors power distribution thermal relays starter switch + light switch assembly thermostat thermostat sensor dipstick rad cap oil filler cap head gasket tyre valves & caps sealant & gunge compression tester multimeter megger continuity bulb on leads soldering iron + solder (so easy to forget that) wire all bulbs all fuses all relays horn horn switch insulating tape gaffer tape water WD40 carb solvent spray brake fluid engine oil gear oil GP grease copper grease 2 CO2 fire extinguishers (one each end of vehicle) MOD intervehicle jump lead misc lumps & blocks of wood vehicle jack 2 x groundsheets 2x 3-tier boxes of tools large hammer wheel brace starting handle (actually easy on a pig) selection of nuts, bolts, cable ties, rope & string selection of rubber radiator hose + jubilee clips user handbook with circuit diagram vinyl gloves (not latex as brake fluid & fuel dissolve them) mobile phone + charger first aid kit lots of bog paper NO spare wheel - pig is runflat wire coathanger The coat hanger is partiulary useful for fishing out things from behind a hot engine etc & useful to bend up to support a droopy pipe

presumably you have seen: http://www.hmvf.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=892 Those books I referred to make no reference to DUKWs as I believe the books of 1939 & 1941 predate the vehicle! I don't have much on wartime vehicles. I have a Fighting Vehicle Design Department spec of 1948 which is meant to cover Army, Navy, RAF & RM vehicles. The Army & RM vehicles AFV or MT should be finished in high gloss Deep Bronze Green BSC 224. The only refrence I can find to painting amphibians specifically is some 1959 Regulations. Whether these regulations could well apply to earlier vehicles, I don't know. Primer - red oxide Undercoat - Light Admiraly Grey Finishing coat - Light Grey The undercoat as quoted is of Admiralty origin & was used for painting vessels interior & exterior above & below the water line. Light Admiralty Grey is BSC 697 & was added to BSC in 1949. It is different from Light Grey BSC 631 which was introduced in 1948 but was only the new name for Light Battleship Grey from the 1931 edition of BSC. Wheeled Ambhibians were required to be marked "ARMY" in 10-inch black lettering on both sides of the exterior of the hull. The bilge areas were to be painted with two coats of Paint, Bitumous, Black, Brushing. Thats all I've got I'm afraid

For those have you who follow threads & then wonder when someone offers to help why it all goes quiet. Did A help B? Was the help no good or did they fall out or lose interest? Well Neil (ArtistsRifles) has been working away furiously on my behalf setting up a database for me. A task which I reckoned would taken me over 2 weeks CONTINUOUS work, assuming I could get the thing set up in the first place! It consists of a the tabulation of appx 760 Army training manuals, regulations, user handbooks etc I can now compile lists of: All documents that cover eg Humbers, Rovers, trailers, gas protection etc Groups according to type eg Vocabularies, regulations, parts lists etc Documents for a given year WO/Army Code no The system that predated WO/Army Code which was like this 57/Regulations/1234. But curiously when WO/Army Code was introduced documents also got a 57/Regulations/1234type of classification as well. This will enable me to 'break the code' for the logic (if there is any!) for these two systems. When 57/Regulations/1234 system was dropped a new system eg D/DAT/123/13/3 appeared now how that is structured is even more mysterious. (I know what the prefix which is most commonly 57 is used for) Furthermore all these documents include a Gp category which is up to 3 digits once I have entered these for all 760 documents I can arrange them numerically & see if a logic is evident. I am not needing to do anything like this for the EMER & AESP collection (sigh of relief from Neil) because they have a very sound & logical (well almost) structure. So well done Neil & many thanks

Another pig experience. Man comes up & stares at pig & smiles. Man: "I've spent many an uncomfortable ride in the back of one of these things" Me: "Oh well. what unit did you serve with?" Man (no longer smilling): "No the b*stards used to drive round the block & beat us up in the back!"

Yes H1(Part 1) now in COSA, used to be H1(a) in VAOS, why they had to change that I dunno. Anyway I've looked in several editions just says: Fire-Resisting Paint, Paint Finishing, Brushing, Aluminium to DEF STAN 80-9. Looking in a 1948 FVDD FV Spec 2012, paint for interior metalwork & woodwork paint, Aluminium GS to Spec CS1199 for closed & compartments of armoured vehicles except ACVs. Painting it on wood is optimistic, I painted some of the missile carriers in the Hornet in 1994 and it STILL hasn't dried :roll:

Metallic colours like silver & gold don't seem to appear in BS systems. Looking at the 1931 BS381 there is nothing like that. Although I see in next edition of 1948 that Silver Grey 628 makes an appearance only to be deleted in 1964. I agree all charts be they online or printed, only give a rough idea. Someone just sent me an old Trimite chart & Deep Bronze Green looks almost black & it does online.

As Richard says the crucial thing is defining the era you want to represent. I have found a later publication, Military Training Pamphlet No.46 Part 4A Painting of Mechanical Transport 1941. "The basic principles laid down apply to the painting of every vehicle. For convenience, two colours only are generally used. For England and Northern Europe the light colour may be Khaki Green No.3 or Standard Camouflage Colour No.2. The dark paint should be Standard Camouflage Colour No.1A" The diagrams now show quite a diffrent arrangement, with the dark colour on all the roof & cab areas seen from above with coverage of the wings & bonnet. These areas fuse into the sides by splodges, dappled or streaks. I have quoted chapter & verse as firstly I have a fetish for documents & also it gives some authority rather than my opinion & also it gives you a date. The first document was June 1939, this one is November 1941. One other thought the traces of paint you can see, are you sure that is as it was because owners sometimes paint their vehicles strange colours :wink:

Doooh I get it.

"I know its the owners right to paint it any colour" You have just said it. I think it best if I say nothing (for a change) BTW How do you get a quoted bit to appear? I tried various combinations with the Quote button, but didn't manage anything

Posting them here? Thats an ineresting point, but I imagine a condition is that the mag assumes copyright so that meanies can't just look online & not buy the mag :wink:

Jack Well done, at least you have a sounding board here amongst your friends. I think those mags are good to draw people into the hobby. What I found difficult in the early days was seeing MVs on display & not knowing how to get involved. The people displaying all seemed to be wrapped up in themselves & there was no bridge from novice to seasoned expert. Even the first show I ever took with my Land Rover ambulance to, no other exhibitors would speak to me, they were all in huddles wrapped up in themselves. I felt so out of it that my first Southsea show I parked my Lightweight Land Rover in the public carpark given the earlier apathy/hostility. I was mighty relieved as amongst the hundreds of vehicles there was only ONE Land Rover on display! So anything that breaks down barriers like these mags is a good idea. Then later people can join clubs if they feel the hobby is for them. But it is a big step to join a club & pay £20-£25 for something that may not turn out to be a hobby of interest. But these mags can be bought on a one off basis & hopefully kindle an interest particularly if there is a helping hand from someone with a blossoming enthusiasm. As it often seems to the public that everyone showing a vehicle has been doing it for years & very intimidating feeling your way into the hobby. Best of luck

There are guidelines in Camouflage - Disruptive Painting of Vehicles, Military Training Pamphlet No.20. 1939 For average European backgrounds Basic colour: Khaki Green No.3 Disruptive colour: Dark Green No.4 For lighter backgrounds Basic colour: Light Green No.5 Disruptive colour: Khaki Green No.3 More than two colours could be used but no details were given, other than letting the previous coats set. There are some diagrams they are not Mickey Mouse patterns they are spodges very similar today. No requirements to cover corners especially, splodges stretched horizontally especially when viewed from above. Well there is the difinitive info. Unfortunately none of these colours tie up with the 31 colours in the 1931 BS381 colour standard. But I expect Richard Farrant will be able to give some ideas but he's probably not up yet :wink:

Thanks for the link to the coalhouse fort, got led astray a bit & it took me to the Gary Numan site. Nice to know he's still around. Saw him at an Army Airday show when he flew in. I was nosing around where I shouldn't have been, just taking pictures of army trailers & found Gary having a drink in the pilots beer tent. :? Got a picture somewhere.

Yes, I have a wartime VAOS & it appears there as Lamp, Stop & Tail, Butlers. I have a 1954 RAF 16E Vocab & quotes it for a Bedford OB.

Not quite. I failed an audition as an extra for a Norman Wisdom film, but did watch Normans stuntman drive a double decker bus into the River Teign. I did drive & use the Hornet in a Services Sound & Vision Corporation film made for the Army on the history of Anti-Tank Guided Weapons. The thing that intrigued me most was the director who nipped out to the shops. He came back with a can of black paint, some fire lighters, a large pot of glue and a rubber mat. He cut the mat into strips, wrapped them around the firelighters, stuffed these between the tracks of a nearby tank, poured the glue all over, sprayed the paint all around, then set fire to it. When enough acrid black smoke had built up, I had to drive the Hornet beside it, stop, let the commentator out & raise my missiles. Took several takes & we nearly ran out of acrid smoke. But what they couldn't grasp was that the missile hydraulics only work when the vehicle has stopped so I was a bit slow off the draw to their liking. I don't think the Tank Museum were very pleased about what was done to their tank :evil:

Actually I don't mind people criticising. In fact I quite enjoy it, provided they say so politely to my face & not just storm off! I remember my grey prototype Shorland at a show, an old hand confessed he had been telling people to ignore it as it was clearly some homemade effort & shouldn't really be here. He was a bit surprised when I told him that it was the prototype for the first APC based on a Land Rover which I had restored without any modifications. I would dearly love people to come up at a show & question me about the authenticity of the attached pig. Because there are nearly 60 differences between this & a standard Army Mk1 pig. But nobody seems to notice or perhaps they are afraid I will blow my top because someone has questioned the restoration. BTW it is a FV1609 built genuinely in 1956, one of twenty prototypes. I believe is now the oldest pig in the world. Pigs are often stated in show programmes as 1953, 54 etc but that is only the chassis. All the production pigs were built in 1958-59 period.

Yes the guns all sound good fun. But your pig had specific roles but at different times. The EARPs were fited to 123 pigs in the period 1973-74. The Pig Squirts were modifications carried out from May to Dec 1975. There were meant to be 36 Pig Squirts (but I can only document the histories of 22). So it was either fitted out to EARP or Squirt, but not at the same time. Depicting the two roles simultaneously, would look a bit strange. Sorry to be a spoil sport. :wink:

Ah but the boot can be on the other foot! Usually in the model tent at Beltring there is a model of a Hornet (FV1620) which has not only the jerrycans on each door as it should. But one on the top of each locker on each side. It never had both of these. :oops: It was once on one side then they fitted a larger exctractor cowl then the jerrycan got moved to the other side. The maker insists that it is all copied from authentic photographs. But one photo is a FVRDE prototype the other photograph of the other side is an in service vehicle. I then point out that the model is incorrect, I know because my model is parked in the garage. :roll:

Here it is chapter & verse: 26/Publications/8760, Equipment Regulations 1959 Pamphlet No.9 Marking & Painting of Vehicles, Army Aircraft & Equipment. Ammendment 2/Jun/1960 Markings Applicable to All Vehicles. Formation Signs 12. These will conform to the formation badges approved by the War Office for use on clothing. 13. Formation sign will not exceed 9 1/2 inches high by 8 1/2 inches wide. They will be displayed on the front and rear of all vehicles, except trailers where they will be displayed on the rear only and motorcycles which will bear no formation sign. The signs will be shown on the left front mudguard and the left side of the tailboard or in places corresponding as closely as possible to these positions. In the case of saloon cars and limousines which are to be so marked, the signs will be mounted on detachable plates not exceeding 6 inches high by 5 inches wide Unit Signs aprroximately 9 1/2 inches high and 8 1/2 inches wide will be displayed at the front and rear of all vehicles except trailers on which they will be displayed at the the rear only. NATO signs where applicable were "in" by this time, but Formation Signs should have been "out" from 1977 on orders of CRAOC. (I have said should, because people will want to tell me of markings that still existed after that time) Anyway I've got bored with typing for now. There was a 15 page article in Windscreen Summer 2000 covering most aspects of painting & marking vehicles. I'll send it to get it posted here eventually. :roll:

Anyone any ideas for the reliable & rapid transfer of fiche either to paper or ideally PC? I have several fiche readers & looking the odd something up is no problem. But I have a lot of EMERs & AESPs locked up in fiche that I would like to get at more easily, in fact the fiche collection is about 18 inches thick, which is equivalent I guess to a small room full of bookcases filled with documents. If there is something I want, I just take a digital picture then store or print it. But its a pain, I have to then transpose it to a negative to get normal text & often shift the horizontal & vertical linearity on the photo software. A single document I can cope with, but it is very time consuming. I have an Epson scanner that can take slides. When I scan fiche which is back illuminated & goes up to 4800 dpi (very slow!). I can get lines of text appear but the optics let me down, letter characters a very broad & fluffy. You can just work out what it says but it's not easy to read. The army had a range of fiche readers ranging from hand-held to printer types. Our reference library have a lot of fiche records & can print off a page for 20p or so. With the size of the collection I estimate this would cost £10,000 maybe, plus a lot of time. Unfortunately these reader-printers use heat sensitive paper as in cheaper fax machines & all of this will fade away within a year! I know I can then scan these printouts to the PC but it all takes time. So anyone got any ideas how to transfer fiche into a more useable form?

Andy GS The wheels are 7.00 x 20 divided rims, tyres 20.00 x 9.00 Pig The wheels are 8.00 x 20 divided rims, tyres 11.00 x 20 run flat There are also differences in: Front to rear axle ratio Gearbox ratios Transfer box ratios

exit one camara. .................. Stupid boy! Can't visualise the fixing, how big is it? A point I should have made, also view it in terms of tyres. Are they good & likely to remain so for the next few years? If not you have to multiple 5 x £150 at least & deduct that from the perceived value. My 1-Ton cypher trailer last year had 2 new tyres £450 including splitting the rims. And rims can be so & sos - I have a FVRDE report on using explosive cord to blow them apart. Although we didn't have to use this method! Of course don't think you can get hold of pig tyres & use em as they are bigger.

Oh now I don't think we need more judging! My wife goes to horse shows & everything is judged. There are a lot of tears & traumas for the majority who don't get judged top of the class. It causes so much upset, yet they keep on entering & paying to do so. I suggested once that someone hire a field, have a burger stall & a beer tent. Sell some bits of surplus saddlery, books etc. walk round look at each others horses, chat, have few beers & watch a few displays. Have a ride past & just generally enjoy the hobby & take it easy on a nice summers day. She looked blank & said "What would be the point of all that?" So we don't want to get like that! Judging is an unenviable responsibility & I know we don't have bicycles versus tanks as such. But I have seen things win first prize because it looks dandy but is rusty underneath or things painted on or bolted on that never should be there. I was at a show & a judge came up & asked why I had marked my entry "Not to be judged" I explained that my very nice Wolf Land Rover was an ex-Withams wreck from a RTA. But it was not restored by me so whats the point in awarding me a prize. I think the judge was a bit perplexed.

Assuning this is Truck Utility Heavy (TUH) 4x4 Reynolds Boughton. You need the AESPs in the series 2320-E-200-*** If it is Truck Cargo Heavy Duty Mk2 you need: AESPs in the series 2320-E-201-*** The first digit of the last three defines the document type: '1' Purpose & planning information '2' Operating Instructions '3' Technical Description '4' Installations & Special Environments '5' Maintenance Information & Instructions '6' Maintenance Schedules '7' Parts Catalogue '8' Modification & General Instructions The rest defines the level of info eg 1=User 4=Base Workshop Not all permutations exist. eg there are no more parts in it because it is in a higher level of workshop. I don't have these AESPs, as for destroying them you are correct in thinking that is bollox. Try: http://www.rememuseum.org.uk/index.htm

Right Ok. I'll send you one of my Word documents then a list of the columns I need. I need to transfer it over as its on another PC. I have this one for internet, fun & nonsense. Then the other that has no modem, no network & kept just for work & MV data. It struck me the safest firewall was no internet connection at all! Thanks I'll be intouch. Clive