Mettlen Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 Hi All, I'm trying to find out about my Alvis Saracen MkII, 96 BA 69 built in 1956. I have the record card starting from 6 July 71. I was hoping to contact ex-service men who may have served in it to build a better picture of its history. 1971 - 17 BVD Stock BOAR 1972 - 17/21 Lancers BAOR 1974 - 16/5 Lancers BAOR 1976 - VD Lugdgershall 1976 - 34 Central Workshop REME 1977 - VD Ludgershall 1978 - Ord Depot Antwerp BAOR 1986 - QM Ord Dep Antwerp BAOR 1992 - Retired from Army Any ideas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montie Posted August 26, 2012 Share Posted August 26, 2012 Hi Mettlen, I remember this number as it is so close to the one I have (69BA67) and when equiring from the tank museum, I got a copy of yor Saracens history card. I could have posted it before but here goes. I unfortunately don't have any other info on it though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mettlen Posted August 26, 2012 Author Share Posted August 26, 2012 Hi Monty, I have a copy of this!! I just can't help thinking that there must be ex-servicemen floating about who served in these vehicle. I wonder how the link can be made....... Thanks for your help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montie Posted August 26, 2012 Share Posted August 26, 2012 Please put up some pics of your sarry, man! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mettlen Posted August 26, 2012 Author Share Posted August 26, 2012 There you go, this was a photo taken last year. As you can see it needs a lot of work but I'm getting there little by little. Currently the turret is off and I giving it a full refurbishment. Is there a Saracen gallery on this site? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montie Posted August 27, 2012 Share Posted August 27, 2012 There you go, this was a photo taken last year. As you can see it needs a lot of work but I'm getting there little by little. Currently the turret is off and I giving it a full refurbishment. Is there a Saracen gallery on this site? [ATTACH=CONFIG]66866[/ATTACH] Nice pic! Quite a big shed you have for her. There is one under British Vehicles but the thread has not been for used some time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter4456 Posted August 27, 2012 Share Posted August 27, 2012 This is my translation of your Saracen's Vehicle History Card - sadly the most useful websites for vehicle history have both been off line for months now (BAOR Locations and British Army Units 1945 on), but I think it's accurate. The QRL association which covers both 17th / 21st Lancers and 16th / 5th Lancers may well be able to help you - even if only to tell you what your Saracen was used for! 96 BA 69.doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongJohn Posted August 27, 2012 Share Posted August 27, 2012 BAOR Locations is still on the go, it has a slightly different address these days: www.baor-locations.org Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montie Posted August 27, 2012 Share Posted August 27, 2012 There you go! http://hmvf.co.uk/forumvb/showthread.php?19529-What-!-No-Saracen-Gallery&highlight=saracen+gallery Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter4456 Posted August 27, 2012 Share Posted August 27, 2012 BAOR Locations is still on the go, it has a slightly different address these days:www.baor-locations.org Phew that's a relief - two of the most useful research websites disappeared at the same time! Thanks for the info Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mettlen Posted August 27, 2012 Author Share Posted August 27, 2012 Great stuff and thanks chaps, these are good leads to pursue! Is it time to do another call for Saracen photos for the gallery? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mettlen Posted August 27, 2012 Author Share Posted August 27, 2012 Thanks Peter that is really interesting! What is a VHF Saracen? Is it a special fit out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montie Posted August 27, 2012 Share Posted August 27, 2012 Great stuff and thanks chaps, these are good leads to pursue! Is it time to do another call for Saracen photos for the gallery? You bet! It sure is, seeing that over 1800 have been built, the gallery is looking rather bleak with only a couple featured! I downloaded quite a couple of pics from the net for my own use but copyright prevents one from posting it to the forum. Pity! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter4456 Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 Thanks Peter that is really interesting! What is a VHF Saracen? Is it a special fit out? There are loads of radio experts on here who've forgotten more than I will know, but your Saracen would have been fitted with VHF (Very High Frequency) radios - the Larkspur sysyem was in use at that time. Whether this amounted to a 'special fit' or not, I'm not sure which is why I would write to the regiments to ask what they used Saracens for. Alien on here would almost certainly know - he was a cavalryman at that time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlienFTM Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 There are loads of radio experts on here who've forgotten more than I will know, but your Saracen would have been fitted with VHF (Very High Frequency) radios - the Larkspur sysyem was in use at that time. Whether this amounted to a 'special fit' or not, I'm not sure which is why I would write to the regiments to ask what they used Saracens for. Alien on here would almost certainly know - he was a cavalryman at that time. Looks like I walked in at just the right time. I was intrigued that this vehicle is listed as an APC, not an ACV. Zoom out a bit. During the Cold War, combat units toured the world on what was known as the Arms Plot. All postings were not equal, so senior officers used to move units around to keep those in the duff postings happy. (Funnily enough those in cushy postings didn't feel the urge to move ...) Further, RAC units alternated role between MBT and Armoured Recce (until at that time very recently, Armoured Car). Lisanelly Barracks in Omagh was and had long been an armoured car posting. The RAC Arms Plot cycled an MBT regiment out of BAOR into Omagh for an 18-month (later 2-year) tour before retraining as Armd Recce. 15/19H passed through Omagh between 1974 and 1976. We followed 1RTR to Aliwal Bks Tidworth. They in turn had followed 16/5L and before them 17/21L. So why Saracen Armoured Personnel Carrier and not Armoured Command Vehicle? RAC regiments have never consisted solely of tanks, armoured cars or recce vehicles. Each sabre squadron has tended to have a support troop. In Tidworth B Sqn 15/19H (Scorpions) had a Guided Weapons Troop in Mark 5 Ferrets carrying Swingfire ATGMs while A Sqn (Foxes) had an Assault Troop in Saracen APCs. FHQ had Saracen ACVs. It was ever thus: I understand that in Fallingbostel (whence 15/19H headed to Omagh), there was a GW Troop with FV438 Swingfire launchers. So I'd suggest to you that this vehicle was on the Order of Battle (Orbat) of 17/21L as an Assault Troop APC, then handed over to 16/5L. If you find under the paint a squadron tac sign (triangle = A Sqn, square = B Sqn, circle = C Sqn - I'll be surprised if you find an HQ squadron diamond and I forget what the D Sqn sign was cos we never had one and I'd expect D to be a support squadron anyway), you'll know where it was down to the troop level. As for VHF. The MBT regiments I am quite sure were using VHF (C42 A-set; B47 B-set) on the squadron and regimental command nets by the early 70s. Lucky them. In 1977 as a recce regt 15/19H were still using HF (C13) for squadron and regimental command nets to cater for the larger area. HF at night on Salisbury Plain after the ionosphere has collapsed was a nightmare. Actually not unlike the cheap and nasty VOIP phones our company has just replaced the old technology with. But that's another story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mettlen Posted September 1, 2012 Author Share Posted September 1, 2012 I found this photo when trawling the web and it may be my Saracen (right at the back of the photo). The regiment and time seem to tie in with the record card! http://news.webshots.com/photo/2806653690034109588fjdhxL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montie Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 I found this photo when trawling the web and it may be my Saracen (right at the back of the photo). The regiment and time seem to tie in with the record card! http://news.webshots.com/photo/2806653690034109588fjdhxL Another pics from the same album, taken in front of a Saracen, this one's number seems to be 8X BA XX http://community.webshots.com/photo/fullsize/2284278040034109588Yactrm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caiden5678 Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 Hello, I’d like to get in touch, my grandads was a lancer within the time frame 74-76 and that was his Saracen, he was one of many to drive it, we would like to know more of Saracen 96 BA 69 please, many thanks. Email me at caid3005@gmail.com if possible. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.