wdbikemad Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 Having spoken to many former service colleagues over the years, it seems that the "classic" working/barrack dress of "KF" shirt, lightweight trousers, puttees and DMS boots was a smart and comfortable form of dress.......I certainly liked mine..... Add to that a woolly pully, plus a 68 pattern smock "bloused" at the lower hem, and you had a practical, warm, and comfortable combination........ My own KF shirts were bleached (to remove the hairiness) and then pressed......they were a tad light-grey in shade but looked smart.......plus sewn-in creases in my TML's......and I felt the dog's......... Many mourn the passing of this dress combination when CS95 came in......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotch Harry Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 I did a stint in the ACF in 1986 and we had a smart uniform then consisting of the Wooly Pully over a hairy mary(or Bundy if lucky!!!)shirt and worn with trs that if my memory serves me correct we called barrack dress or barrack greens??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan869 Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 (edited) Interesting subject. I´ve been trying to get my -dress- together over the last few years. My era in the forces was 1968 to 74. Unfortunately I didn´t -buy out- my uniform when I left. Managed to get 2 Denison smocks for a resonable price. For those who might be interested, there were 2 -patterns- for the smock at that time. One which was predominantly green and one which was mostly brown. No difference was made between the 2. Often you wore what you were issued with... Although the -green- one was more favoured by the blokes. Remember that my old CSM had a -brown- one but he didn´t give a hoot about whether it -looked good- or not:). Battalion patch on both upper arms. Rank and wings on right hand upper arm only. I was in 2 Para so a -royal- blue square. Shirts: We were issued with 2 KF shirts. If they found any tampering with them (bleaching etc) you paid for a new shirt and got a rocket as well. So most of us had a tell tale rash around the neckline for the first 6 months;) The KF was what you wore. There were a few exceptions but generally you were out of uniform if you wore anything else. We were also issued with -lightweight jungle green- shirts when we were abroad. We were aloud to keep these on return to UK (mainly because we were usually off some where else within a short time) These were cotton and were preferred by us. We were aloud to were them for ex. in Ireland but once back in UK it was KF again. Lanyard worn around left shoulder and the end tucked into left breast pocket. Colour, blue, in my case. Red for 1 Para and green for 3 Para. Rank stripe on right upper arm and wings on the right above the rank. Nothing else Trousers: We were issued with 3 pairs of trousers. 2 pairs of -OG- trousers and one pair of -denims- The OGs were favoured mainly because they had a leg pocket on the left leg which the denims didn´t have. The OGs were lighter than the denims which meant that they dried out quicker after getting wet. You could -steam- them dry after marching 5 to 10 miles. The denims used to stay wet more or less. We used to do quite a few river crossings so you wanted something that would dry out. The OGs had fly buttons and 2 straps at the top which crossed over and were fastened with metal buckles at the sides. Haven´t managed to get a pair of these:-( Tappered, sown in creases etc were rewarded with a kidney punch and a deduction from your wage. They would as often as not get the offending piece of kit and make a large rip in it. Then you would be sent off to get a new pair and depending on which mood they were in you would maybe get done for destroying army property. Puttees. When did they disappear? I remember that during my service they started to let us -off- puttees when we were in the field and the DMS with the longer -leggings- to them were aloud as they were more practical. But in the -shot- (Aldershot)..... always puttees. Turn up on parade with -SAS- boots and you were in for it;) Army green socks. In the reverse, if you were in civvies and say had come back after a leave, if they saw that you were wearing the green socks, you were in -mixed dress-. Then you were in for it:nut: DMS boots. A good bit of kit but not waterproof in any way so you had to actively look after your feet especially in the field. They found out the disadvantages of the DMS in the trenches of the Falklands. Wooly jumper. Rank, sown on right arm only. In my day only that, no wings mounted (although I have since seen them sewn on. Don´t know if that was a later thing or someone not in the know who got it wrong). Only the offdicers with -pips- etc had epaulettes. Other ranks, none. Belt: Always a belt (if you weren´t serving time) Either 58 pat webbing belt but usually maroon regimental belt. Always 58 pat belt with the smock. I have never actually written this down before. Always taken it for granted but realize that times move on and -my- era is passing into history:shocked: If there is any interest I can go through our field kit, webbing etc. This was 58 pat. Ki Edited May 10, 2012 by alan869 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotch Harry Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 Anyone know where I can get a pair of OGs size 2 or 3...... Any ideas roughly waist and leg size? Think i have a few pairs somewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan869 Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 Anyone know where I can get a pair of OGs size 2 or 3...... Any ideas roughly waist and leg size? Think i have a few pairs somewhere. I don´t think the ones we had gave waist and leg size. Height maybe. They were universal size 1, 2, 3 etc. I´m 178 cm (5´10") roughly and 70 kg. Normal to thin build. 32 waist? The OGs I mean had attaching buckles on each hip, in metal, which could be taken off. So it´s only this type I´m after. Map pocket on left leg, none on right. If you have these I would be very gratefull as I´ve got the rest of my old -kit-. Many thanks, Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdbikemad Posted May 10, 2012 Author Share Posted May 10, 2012 Interesting feedback ! Generally, there were 3 common types of "OG" trousers in use up to the mid 70s........... The 100% cotton green drill trousers with the cross-over belted waist were the 50 pattern tropical issue, that lasted up to the mid-70s when replaced by DPM.....the style lingered on into the SAS windproof DPM trousers from 75 onwards......the OG trousers had side pockets, two rear pockets, and a large pocket on the outside of the left leg..... The other two trousers were the green overall trousers of 1960 pattern......similar pocket arrangement to the 60 pattern combat trousers......issues up to 71 were in green cotton drill.....then from 71 to 72 in green polyester...........until replaced by the redesigned green lightweight "TMLs" from 72 onwards........it is thought that some issues of the older overall trousers were without the left leg pocket........ Two common Denison smock patterns during the 60s and into the 70s were the dark green and brown pattern on a lighter khaki sand base.........then the rarer variant (often termed the "desert" pattern") that featured green and brown cammo in very distinctive "wallpaper brush" patterning on a very yellow-sandy base........... In my unit at least, some dress variations were tolerated........many guys wore Doc Martins as an alternative to DMS boots......others wearing jungle and NI patrol boots...plus aircrew boots when they could be scrounged.........all shirts, from memory, were KF in green although we did have at least two outsize guys still issued with older khaki variants...... Webbing belts were invariably 58 pattern, green nylon "working" pattern or RAF stable belts........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan869 Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 (edited) Interesting feedback ! Generally, there were 3 common types of "OG" trousers in use up to the mid 70s........... The 100% cotton green drill trousers with the cross-over belted waist were the 50 pattern tropical issue, that lasted up to the mid-70s when replaced by DPM.....the style lingered on into the SAS windproof DPM trousers from 75 onwards......the OG trousers had side pockets, two rear pockets, and a large pocket on the outside of the left leg..... The other two trousers were the green overall trousers of 1960 pattern......similar pocket arrangement to the 60 pattern combat trousers......issues up to 71 were in green cotton drill.....then from 71 to 72 in green polyester...........until replaced by the redesigned green lightweight "TMLs" from 72 onwards........it is thought that some issues of the older overall trousers were without the left leg pocket........ Two common Denison smock patterns during the 60s and into the 70s were the dark green and brown pattern on a lighter khaki sand base.........then the rarer variant (often termed the "desert" pattern") that featured green and brown cammo in very distinctive "wallpaper brush" patterning on a very yellow-sandy base........... In my unit at least, some dress variations were tolerated........many guys wore Doc Martins as an alternative to DMS boots......others wearing jungle and NI patrol boots...plus aircrew boots when they could be scrounged.........all shirts, from memory, were KF in green although we did have at least two outsize guys still issued with older khaki variants...... Webbing belts were invariably 58 pattern, green nylon "working" pattern or RAF stable belts........ Yes, very interesting. Which unit were you in and between which years? I only remember the OGs with metal buckles and the -denims- as we called them without the buckles or leg pockets but with loops that held your belt in place (OGs didn´t have loops). Have a foto of one of the blokes from B Coy who is wearing the style with loops, no buckles and leg pockets. So there was that variant. I stuck to the OGs as did most of the blokes. Will try and get some photos up of the 2 variations of smock that I have (and remember from the time). When we were out in the field or on ops like NI or ops abroad, you could wear Doc Martins and the like. Otherwise def. not. Had to be standard issue. Belts were always 58 pat or Para Reg stable belt. Never seen green nylon "working" pattern. RAF??? You must be joking:shocked: Wouldn´t be seen dead wearing anything -crab air-. The DPM was issued to us but know one wore it. Then it became standard issue and the smock disappeared. The DPM was affectionately known as the -monkey suit- OGs, bit hard to see (roof Snugsville Street Bakery June 1970). Blokes in a lightweight wearing the standard -green- smock (Browns Square police station, Belfast 1972) Edited May 10, 2012 by alan869 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan869 Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 Just been looking at the bay. Put up -OG trousers- and low and behold. What I used to wear practically every day for the 5 years odd I was in the army. Going to get these and then that´s my -working dress- complete:) Just need the metal buckles...... http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/230788189027?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1426.l2649 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotch Harry Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 I don´t think the ones we had gave waist and leg size. Height maybe. They were universal size 1, 2, 3 etc. I´m 178 cm (5´10") roughly and 70 kg. Normal to thin build. 32 waist? The OGs I mean had attaching buckles on each hip, in metal, which could be taken off. So it´s only this type I´m after. Map pocket on left leg, none on right. If you have these I would be very gratefull as I´ve got the rest of my old -kit-. Many thanks, Alan True,they werent labelled with a physical size but asked what size you were to check if i had a pair that would fit you;) Pretty much the same size as me so i SHOULD have a spare pair somewhere i could let go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan869 Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 True,they werent labelled with a physical size but asked what size you were to check if i had a pair that would fit you;) Pretty much the same size as me so i SHOULD have a spare pair somewhere i could let go. That would be great:-) Will get the pair of the bay as well and that should sort it:-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotch Harry Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 Think i also have a spare pair of the OG Denim Trs as well(no leg pocket). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan869 Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 Sure, just the job. Will get some photos up of our old bergan and patrol belt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdbikemad Posted May 11, 2012 Author Share Posted May 11, 2012 "Never seen green nylon "working" pattern. RAF??? " This belt was dark green stiff nylon.......cut from a huge roll in the QM store with nylon "keepers" and green-painted white alloy 37-pattern front buckles attached......used for trousers, over pullys for working dress, etc.........a universal item, not specific to any one service.....believed to have appeared during the 70s.......... We didn't like 'em much....far too stiff, chaffed your hips, and most preferred a 58 webbing belt.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan869 Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 I don´t think the one you describe was ever issued to us. Any way not in my time. We did have a 37 pat belt. Used very rarely for parades with no2 dress. It was standard 37 pat which was painted -maroon- but the paint used made it look more pink. We had to paint them and then bull them. Only had to wear it 2 or 3 times in the whole time I was in. We didn´t like them (we hated no 2s aswell;)) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotch Harry Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 That would be great:-) Will get the pair of the bay as well and that should sort it:-) Bloody hell,hope its not you thats still bidding on those Ebay trs,mine would be cheaper(when i find them!!!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan869 Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 Bloody hell,hope its not you thats still bidding on those Ebay trs,mine would be cheaper(when i find them!!!) No I let them go in the hope that you come up trumps:-D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotch Harry Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 No I let them go in the hope that you come up trumps:-D I definitely have some spare,its finding them thats the trouble;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan869 Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 I definitely have some spare,its finding them thats the trouble;) Take it easy mate. If I´ve waited 38 years for a pair I suppose a while longer won´t hurt:D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdbikemad Posted May 13, 2012 Author Share Posted May 13, 2012 The old green drill "jungle" trousers have never been easy to find in recent years - my few NOS pairs are all small in size and took a while to find.......they remained in production until at least 1975 when DPM took over.... Interestingly, good old "Survival Aids" used to sell their own version of these. The trousers appear to be identical to the issue ones in detail but bore a survival aids label......seems they may have been made by the MoD contractor of the time.....the only difference was the colour, which was a darker "olive" shade of green rather than the classic "jungle green".......I have a pair of these that were acquired within the last 4 years from Silvermans in a 38" waist too !! Seems Silvermans bought the remaining stock from the company........they were £29.99 a pair, and advertised as "P-Coy Trousers".....I think they are still available on-line ? There is a KD version of the jungle trousers....usually lacking the large left leg map pocket.......these are also available from the above and may be genuine issue ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotch Harry Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 There is a KD version of the jungle trousers....usually lacking the large left leg map pocket. Pretty sure i have a couple of pairs somewhere of the KD cross over trs,with and without pocket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotch Harry Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 Found the buggers at last:cheesy::cheesy::cheesy: VG condition apart from 1 period in service patch to the left knee.Butons missing off rear pockets but should have replacements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan869 Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 Just the job:D Have you got the buckles?? I´ll take both pairs when you´ve got it sorted. PM me for payment. Thanks very much!! Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan869 Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 Found these photos. My old bergan. Had this particular one since 1972. The sort of patrol belt we had. The machette was the sort of -extra kit- that we used to pick up. Nobody bothered really what sort of extra suff you had out in the field, as long as you did your job;) This one I actually bought in 1980 when I went on my own for a 3 month holiday to central america. Bought in Honduras. Went jungle -hiking- around Belize, Guatemala and Honduras for about a month. The shorter blade machette is a lont more practical than the longer one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotch Harry Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 Just the job:D Have you got the buckles?? I´ll take both pairs when you´ve got it sorted. PM me for payment. Thanks very much!! Alan Yes Alan,they come with the buckles that were on them when i got them many moons ago. Will try to find the Denims and get back to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotch Harry Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 Love the pics,do you still have the bergen and belt kit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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