Tootles

My 1917 stamped SMLE had it Tony, in fact, I was quite chuffed about it at the time.

The turret, of coarse, was originally produced for the Saracen, and when taking my instructors coarse D&M (wheeled) at Bovington, I was told during the coarse that the turret and its associated 'bits' weighed in at almost a ton. This, I presume, was the difference between a Mk1/1, and the Mk 2/6 we had at the time. Put it like this, I wouldn't want one dropped on my toe, lol. I think you must agree that operational use differs from what the old girls are subjected to now. I was on an exercise in Somerset in 1971, when one turned over at high speed, as its N/S front wheel hit a soft verge, causing the steering wheel to 'whip' out of the drivers hands. The commander was lucky, he saw it coming and dropped down onto his seat. The Ferret ended up on its turret, and the shaken and petrol soaked crew had a lucky escape. The Troop Leader waded through the fuel, pulling both guys out. He was a (later) much maligned, (by the press), 2nd Lt Charles (Lord) Brocket, an extremely brave man. The second incident I know personally about, occurred in Belfast, when a Mk2, in fast pursuit of a gunman's getaway car, hit a wet zebra crossing late at night. Once again the Ferret went its own way, rolling twice before coming to a stop. The commander was thrown clear.

Elkington and Co were a Birmingham company specialising in electro plating, into the 1960s, so I can only assume that they were sub-contractors to the ROF, manufacturing some of the two million Mk2s produced. I suppose you could read the serial as 'Sten Mk2 1945', a rough and ready interpretation, I know, but sometimes the simpler ways of looking at wartime serial numbers are the most accurate! The issue stamps are as you say, and would have been added after manufacture. Just out of interest, twenty two or so different companies manufactured the British No11 and 36 grenades, (Mills Bombs), such was the need at the time, and I wouldn't be surprised to learn that the Sten went along the same lines. :-D Just being curious, but has your SMLE got the magazine cut off???

Tony, I see where your coming from, but please allow me to quote a couple of the relevant 'oaths'. Firstly, the German model. The Wehrmacht Oath of Loyalty toAdolf Hitler, 2 August 1934 "Iswear by God this sacred oath that to the Leader of the German empire andpeople, Adolf Hitler, supreme commander of the armed forces, I shall renderunconditional obedience and that as a brave soldier I shall at all times beprepared to give my life for this oath." Now, the British version: I, (Insert full name), do swear that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth, her heirs and successors, according to law. So help me God. And lastly, the American model: I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States and the State of (STATE NAME) against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the Governor of (STATE NAME) and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to law and regulations. So help me God. Now, spank me with a Panzerfaust, but you can hardly drive a Deuce and a Half between the three, and not even a Jeep between the first two. As for your final bit mate, Britain declared war on Germany both in 1914, and 1939, but I'm struggling to see where that comes into it. I'm not 'pro Nazi', in fact, far from it, but I am pro soldier, and my whole contention of remarks I made at the beginning of this thread was/is that the German fighting services of WW2 get a very bad press, because to the un-educated, its so much easier to refer to the whole as 'Nazi', then to be historically accurate.

Struggling a bit to see where the Nuremberg Rallies signified the views of the vast majority of The German Peoples, however, lets get down to the facts a bit. In 1928, you needed a wheelbarrow full of money to buy a loaf of bread. Ten years later, Germany was able to field one of the greatest armies The World has ever seen, and your surprised that the German people, themselves starved and oppressed, voted for them?? In the 1930s, the British Fascist Party was the fastest growing political group in the country. Why?? Because people knew no better. They saw the great changes in the German society, and thought they could mirror it here. That was not, however, the core of my first post. Less then a third of all of German armed forces at that time were card carrying party members. That changed later, of coarse, as vast numbers of Hitler Youth were conscripted into the fighting forces. It was not uncommon for 'U' Boat crews to have a party member planted on board, as with Army units. OK, so all servicemen and women took the oath of allegiance to Hitler, but hey, I took the same sort of oath to HM the Queen, her heirs and successors, as did most servicepeeps to the heads of their own countries. And so to the lathe in question. Sorry, it was not a 'Nazi' lathe, it was a lathe procured by the Reichminsterium fur Rustung unt Kriegproduction, (RRK), and is probably stamped as such. :-)

This is one of my pet hates. 'Nazi' this, and 'Nazi' that. It wasn't the 'Nazi' Army, nor the Airforce, or even the lathe manufacturer. Its like calling the wartime British services 'Conservative', and to my mind does nothing but belittle the very many brave men and women who fought for their country, so few actually being members of said political party. Sorry, but I get sick to death of EVERYTHING to do with Germany in WW11 being referred to as such. :iamsmiling:

Suppose you have all this, but just in case you haven't.......

At 7 to the gallon.....................................:-X

:idea: IMPRESSED!!! Maybe The Wrangler Jean Co. would be interested in buying your 'formula' lol And whilst on the subject, (sort of), did anyone get issued with a brown jersey heavy wool, instead of the green one? They were great, had elbow patches, a neck drawstring, and didnt smell of mothballs when they got wet.

:-D:-D So how long did they last??? I remember tie-dying Wrangler jeans using bleach, they fell into holes in no time!! Bet your QMS did a roaring trade in new KFs.

I loved driving the Mk1, we had a couple in the Sqn as liaison vehicles. The Ferret was never meant to have a turret, it was an afterthought, which led to many being killed when their Ferrets turned over. The turret weighs in at around one ton, (with its base), and it was so easy, at speed, to have the steering wheel whipped out of your hands, if one front wheel hit a patch of soft. The Ferret would then spin, and roll over, trapping the commander between turret and tera-firma. Not nice.

We had terrible problems with the KF in Northern Ireland, (early days). There were no washing facilities most of the time, and if you were very lucky and not out on patrol, then the mobile shower unit lads came around about once every five weeks. You took your manky-est kit into the open air shower with you! However, back to the shirts. Because of their composition, the collar band soon became really filthy, and a large amount of the lads were getting terrible neck boils, so much so that we were instructed to wear KD shirts without collars. Needles to say, the KF shirts were beyond local repair, and got used as vehicle rags. The downside was that we had to replace them when back on the mainland at our own expense.

My son was R.Sigs, and so I ran the piccy past him. His answer reads thus: ' it looks like a piece of kit you might have in a waggon to impart a crypto key to a radio set.' Hope that helps??????

Certainly a Regimental thing. I was 14/20th KH, and non of our tanks/wheeled FVs were named, however, REME had a habit of naming their ARVs and 438s. Our only side markings were Squadron signs, and removable net ID panels, 31c etc. Dave.

Thanks for that Clive. I never personally met Capt. Russell, but of coarse he was a legend in his own right, and I am saddened to here of his demise. Maybe this is not the thread for personal service info, and so I will pass you details by PM, if thats OK?? Dave.

You have a Hornet!!! I'm very impressed!! Really only a cut down Pig, as you know, but hey!!! Last one I saw outside of Bovy was the one we had stood outside our barracks in Tidworth. They could only be fired 'live' in Aus, but we fired practice Malkara at Lulworth. We then moved over to Vigilant, on the Mk 2 Ferret, and Swingfire on the Mk 5 Ferret. Would really be interested to get your Hornets history. I think that only 50 were made, plus the converted Humber 1 tons as missile re-supply etc.

Hi, My name is Dave, and I am ex Royal Armoured Corps, trained as a driver/gunner on Conqueror, Centurion and Chieftain, as well as Ferret, Saladin, and Saracen, plus Hornet with RAC Para Squadron. Spent time as a D&M instructor at Catterick, on Chieftain, and would be pleased to answer anything I can remember, (LOL), on the above. Dave.