Old Bill

Whilst playing with this axle, we realised that we had not removed the wheel thrust washers. On inspection, we realised that they were much thicker than those already on the chassis so we may well have a solution to our end-float issue. We fitted the starting handle and I gave the engine a good swing. Very satisfying! The handle appears to protrude forwards a very long way. This is odd as the shaft is an original Thornycroft component. At least it reduces the chances of my smashing my teeth on the radiator protector bar! Next was the sump level tap, Followed by the priming cocks. Father dug out the best original fan. After a clean-up, this was fitted too. The engine is beginning to look rather pretty! The gear change shaft support was installed. Then I started looking at the steering box. I dropped it in but it fouls an engine mounting bolt and the holes don't line up! I think we should get away with dressing a corner from the nut but that is a job for another day. That is the end of our progress for this Christmas. I am back to finishing my motor house for the Dennis. Once that is done, I can make some more patterns for the Thorny. Must keep the momentum up. Only two years and five months left to go and it is going to be tight! Happy New Year everyone! Steve

Back to it for a final stint before the return to reality! I found an odd box this morning within which were the missing plates. Father wasted no time in attaching them! I then fitted the front wheel greasers, the gearbox breather, rescued from a chassis on a farm at Great Missenden twenty years ago, and then re-fitted the engine oil pipes which had been removed for safety during the lift. Thoughts turned to the rear axle and differential so kindly given to us by Mike in New Zealand. The differential is the last major component needed in the chassis. We pulled it out and then set about lifting the differential from the casing. As you can see, it is in wonderful condition. Even the splines look like new.

Thanks Chaps. I shall invest in some bronze and tighten it up a bit. It does feel a bit generous at the moment! Today we wanted to get the engine properly fixed down. Dad did not cut the bolt holes in the engine mounting angles when he made them as he felt it would be easier to mark them out from the crank case itself. He is right in this but I really didn't fancy lifting the engine again. Still, I gritted my teeth and off we went. First job was to get the engine into line with the gearbox. To facilitate this, I made a pointer from steel strip to bolt to the gearbox input spider. This worked well and it was quite easy by adjusting the engine position with a jemmy to bring it all into line. Then we had to lift the engine and remove the first mounting angle. All went well but I hate working under suspended loads. You only get one chance to get it right! We put the holes in using the mill. As usual in this game, the mill was stretched to capacity, firstly by height in drilling a 1/2" hole and then in torque turning a 3/4" end mill to finish. This was done for both sides and then, much to our relief, the engine was lowered back down. We had four bolts in stock which were trimmed to length and had split pin holes drilled before fitting and tightening up. They went through all of the holes without adjustment! The engine is now installed! Gearbox to be finally fitted tomorrow along with some other bits and pieces which can now go on. One thing is bugging us though. Some time ago, Father repaired the rear wheel tyre size plates and I made up some brass screws to secure them and these can now be fitted. However, we cannot find them! Dad has been searching all day and it is causing serious annoyance! More tomorrow. Steve

Thanks Chaps. It is a relief to have the bits together as it is looking like a vehicle at last! No progress today as we have had guests. However, I want to get the engine bolted down before returning home so that will be tomorrow's project. One thing has been concerning me and that is the appropriate end-float in the wheel bearings and I should like to ask for some advice please. These bearings are 3 1/2" bore, fully floating, plain bronze bushes with bronze thrust washers at the ends. The right hand rear wheel has a little less than 1/16" float which feels about right. However, the LH wheel has something like 1/8" float and it feels a bit much. Can anyone offer any guidance as to how much there should be? I have not found anything in the manuals and the American lorries all have rolling bearings so they are quite different. I should appreciate your views! Steve

Compressing the rather unusual leaf type clutch springs was a challenge but we did this with a pair of sash clamps. Then we took the engine out into the sun for a photo call. It really does look pretty but I was still very concerned about smashing it up by dropping it. I have not been looking forward to this exercise at all! I made up a new lifting strop from 22mm polypropylene rope just to be certain and away we went. We couldn't push the chassis back far enough to give the engine a straight lift so Big Mark hung onto the water pump to keep it all swung out of the way. Then with the hook as high as it could go, we rolled the chassis out underneath it. The moment of truth! It's down! Phew! Much relief all round. Next task is to position the engine correctly in front of the gearbox and mark out the bolt holes. Then we will have to lift it again, remove the engine mounts and bore them through. A task for Thursday. Christmas guests tomorrow! Steve

Back to it! We started the day by lowering the chassis to the ground and then set up the crane ready to lift the gearbox. This was simply slung and went into the chassis without a hitch. Even the bolts lined up! Now there is this big empty space which needs an engine. It had originally been planned that we would fit the clutch once the engine had been installed. However, I had a re-think and realised that there wouldn't be room to fit it in! I therefore had to finish it off and fit it properly. First task was to clean off the light surface rust followed by fitting of the nice new bearings which have been beside my bed for a year. Goodness knows why they were there!

I have found the Carlton Colville brake drum cover photo. As you can see, it is not arranged as you might reasonably expect! Steve

Hi Doug. In the end, we left both felts off. They were not fitted when we took it all to bits so I don't think the omission is serious. The worst that can happen is that the grease can work its way out but this will be a more cosmetic than functional fault. The tin covers are dished in at the centre to catch any lubricant and deflect it away from the linings. In the Carlton Colville lorry, the covers align with the corners of the brake drums, neither going inside or overlapping. Until I had to make them, I had in mind that the flanges went the other way over the outside of the drums but that is not how they are on this vehicle or in the parts book. A slightly odd arrangement, I think. Steve

Yes, the brake levers are a bit wasted. We think they will be OK but if not, we will have to do something about them. The proof of the pudding will be when we fit the brake handle! Today's project was to fit the rear wheels. As always, they were more difficult than expected although we have succeeded. Step one was to get the engine crane out and lift the first wheel. Then the Heavy Gang came in to assist in wangling it on to the bearing sleeve. Rather unfortunately, the brake drum fouled my nice new dust covers so off came the wheel again. After much pondering, we decided to try to bend the edge of the cover forwards using a rubber mallet with a block of wood behind. The wheel was re-fitted but would not go right home. We decided that the oil seal felt was fouling so it was removed and the wheel fitted again, this time successfully although the dust cover still requires some further adjustment. The securing collar and nut was then fitted and we had one wheel mounted. The second wheel was tricky to fit as there was no access for the engine crane. Big Mark had thoughtfully brought along a small wooden trolley on castors which could be used to feed the wheel in sideways. All I had to do was operate the jack under the chassis to get the height just right. This time, however, the brake drum would not go cleanly over the re-lined shoes. After much further head scratching, one end of the shoe was bored slightly deeper and the other end was dressed back with a file. A couple of rounds of this treatment and success was achieved. Even the dust cover was clear on this side so the securing nut and collar were fitted and we now have a wheel at each corner. Gearbox and engine tomorrow! Steve

Back to it! The axle is now safely bolted in and the first task was to tighten the nuts down and fit the split pins. Then we spent a surprising amount of time fitting keys to the ends of the brake actuatorshafts. Once they had been made, the shafts could be fitted. And a pinch bolt to secure them. Next came the brake shoes which Father had previously re-lined and painted. We selected the best surviving return springs, hooked the shoes together and then fitted them. This was most definitely a two-man job as the springs made the shoes quite a handful! We have acquired a number of wheel bearings from the various chassis we have dismantled and were fortunate to be able to find two good enough for further use. Father had previously identified the need for felt oil seals on the back of the wheels so he had obtained these ready for now. They were simply slotted into their grooves on the backs of the wheels. Finally, suitable thrust washers were chosen to limit the end float to 0.060" - 0.125". Now we are ready to fit the wheels tomorrow! Steve

Why leather washers in the hub-caps? I am sure they weren't mentioned in the subsidy lorry books and we haven't fitted any. What do they do? Steve PS Good progress!

Using the jack to slowly lower the chassis and springs onto the spring seats on the axle. Taking care to make sure that the centre bolt is properly aligned. Some temporary bolts were fitted to hold it steady. The bolts were then cross-drilled and cut to length before fitting. Getting hold of such bolts proved quite a problem for us. In the end, Father purchased 3/4" UNC bolts in the USA and had them sent to Tim's Father-in-law for Tim to pick up when he next visited. I am sure that the airport security men love to see Tim coming! The other side took some serious wangling to get the bolts through the holes be we succeeded eventually and the springs are now secure until tomorrow when we will tighten the nuts right up and pin them. Brakes tomorrow! Steve.

I knew it would come to life just as soon as I posted something! Anyway, todays task was to attach the brake drum covers. This started by clearing all the stuff from around the chassis and then pulling out the axle on its trolley. The engine crane was then used to lift it off before rolling it over. It was then blocked up on timbers and Tim fitted the dust cover securing it with the brake anchor pin and then two screws. I then drilled a cross hole through the end of the pin for a split pin. Back on the trolley and carefully rolled beneath the chassis. Careful use of a bent copper pipe to blow the muck out of the spring alignment hole. The head of the spring centre bolt goes in here and locates the spring, preventing the axle from working along in service. Then the axle was positioned with the pin directly over the hole in the spring seat.

Well, you are quite right. Christmas is the time we get on and do things and today has been no exception. However, I am getting an absolute flat refusal from the computer to upload any pictures. I can say that this Christmas, we have been planning to fit the brake drum dust covers followed by the back axle to the chassis and then the rear wheels. Today we have fitted the covers and hung the axle from the chassis. Tomorrow, we will tighten up the bolts and pin the nuts. Then it is onto the brake gear before fitting the wheels. Once the wheels are on, we can roll the chassis under the chain block and fit the gearbox and engine so it is getting very exciting. However, this computer is driving me nuts! I'll post the pictures if ever it comes back to life. Happy Christmas! Steve :computerrage::banghead:

Hear hear! Steve :-)

Yes, a post-war four tonner very closely related to the Subsidy chassis. There were a few tweaks to the engine shortly after the War when the pump drive was made longitudinal instead of transverse. The ten-spoke rear wheels are interesting as I have only ever seen eights before. Nice pic! Steve

Welcome Fer. We manage to talk about all sorts of things here as well as military which is great. Please may we see a picture of your Citroen? Come in and enjoy! Steve :-)

We did our Dennis ones cold in the press. All very nicely controlled and no danger of hurting oneself! Nice job, by the way. There is a lot of effort in making fabrications look like forgings! Steve

That would have been a better way to do it but they are just too big for my facilities. I spun the fuel tank ends for the Dennis which are 16" diameter and 18swg and that was quite successful although I had to make up a bronze tool to do it. They were at the limit of diameter for our Colchester Student lathe though and these covers are 22" diameter so although only 20swg, I couldn't do them that way. I could have imposed on my friends again for use of a larger lathe but am keen not to become a perishing nuisance! I originally planned to solder the brass to the steel but felt that with dissimilar metals their relative expansions would distort the covers. I cleaned them before riveting so I could still do it. Will give it some more thought. Steve

I did think about it, Andy but it would have been a massive piece of steel and I would have struggled to handle it. The fuel tank ends are only flanged by 1/2" so I shall get steel flanging blocks made for them. The corner radii are only 4" for them so they will be harder still to flange.. No doubt we will get there. Steve

The ply started to bend so I needed to support it all round. In rummaging in the workshop, I found this ring which is the piece parted off from the brake drum. Perfect! Off we went again but I was amazed when I reached 25 tonne without quite reaching the full depth. To get the last bit of movement, I inched around the edge with the ram pushing locally. This achieved 9/16" when I was aiming at 5/8". I deemed this acceptable and proceeded to push the second one. The result is quite pleasing but it was at this point that I realised I had reached the end of the stroke, 1/16" short of where I wanted to be! Very embarrassing and a lot of effort for the result. Oh well. At least I know how far the ram goes now! Next task was to open out the bore as I had left it undersize to allow it to stretch. I marked it out with odd-leg calipers and then cut it with a nibbler before cleaning up with a file. The beading around the edge of the hole had originally been formed by folding the steel over. However, I just could not see how to do this so we decided that a brass bead of similar section but riveted on would be acceptable. The challenge then became how to bend it. This was done by drilling a hole through a block of wood and simply leaning on it. It was a bit painstaking but worked well.. It was at this point that my estimate of a 24" length of bead became noticeably too short so I riveted in an extra piece of flat and dressed it to match. After dressing back, the bead was quite presentable. The original remains seem to match anyway. Two covers ready for the Christmas project. Back to painting the Dennis' new home..... Steve

Now that the Dennis has a new home, I can get back to Thornycroft! Some projects just take far too long.... We are at a position where we want to get the back axle and wheels fitted. Then the engine and gearbox can go in and we will be lloking like a lorry at last. This is to be the Christmas project but before we can do that, we need to fit the brake drum dust covers as they cannot be installed once the axle is attached to the springs. The dust covers we had are very poorly so we have to make up some new ones. A close inspection and reference to the photos taken of the Carlton Colville lorry showed them to be 20swg steel discs with a 3/4" flange around the outside and the centre dished inwards with a bead around it. The first task then was to make up a flanging block. This was simply a laser-cut piece of 3mm plate screwed to some 3/4" plywood. Whilst getting this cut, we also had two blanks done at the same time. The blanks were sandwiched between the steel-faced piece of ply and a second piece to back it up. Then the edges were laboriously tapped over a bit at a time until they sat more-or-less flat around the block. As the block was only steel faced I could not get the ripples out as the rather soft timber just deformed inwards. Whilst wondering what to do about this, I remembered that Father had bought me a set of panel beating tools. I have never worked out how to use them but found that one of the dollies had a radius about the same as the flange. I held it up behind the flange by hand and tapped against it with the planishing hammer. This improved things quite a bit but the flanges are still obviously hand beaten by unskilled labour! Two flanged plates resulted. The next part of the job was to work out how to emboss the centre. I have recently acquired a 30tonne hydraulic press and thought that might be the answer so I turned up another steel faced tool, this time in mahogany. The flanged plates are slightly bigger in diameter than the distance between the press legs. However, by tilting them, they would just fit in the middle. As usual, I am using all of my equipment to its capacity!

Judging by the shape of that press, you can tell it is in a student workshop! Only kidding! Lovely job Ben. Cutting the slot first is a brilliant idea. It is perfectly positioned and the tool doesn't need to cut the plate as well so it can be just a bit of mild steel as you have proven. Wish I had thought of that! Steve :-)

I suspect that the linings will wear in pretty quickly. When we first took the Dennis to Brighton, I had to get underneath only about five miles out to tighten up the adjuster as I was already running out of travel! I am sure that the drum will polish up and the top edge of the lining will quickly disappear until it is all in contact. Time will tell! Steve

That looks more like a shepherd's hut than a living van but you are quite right. Very desirable in the right place! Steve