fv1609

Just gently tap a screwdriver blade one end of the mounting then the opposite end to break the seal formed by the squashed gasket & possibly sealant in there as well. Then tap the mounting from side to side with a rubber or hide hammer.

Might be Adam but it's not in the CES. Have you got Item 58 yet? Block, hardwood, 7 in x 7 in x 4 in :-)

Matt I would have thought you would be alright with RSN8.

Excellent Jim you must have a warm glow of satisfaction in conquering the problem & along the way you have saved a lot of money & hopefully learnt some things. You will now be a "load compensating resistor expert"! I've just come in from measuring voltages on the one here. This resistor is open circuit. I had a nice a adjustable wirewound rated 20 watts I think, it is 10 ohms so I just reset the clamp to give 0.5 ohms & clipped it in circuit with some small jump leads. Incidentally in its non actively charging state it only got mildly warm & I think from parts catalogues it was only rated at 4 watts. Now we know yours is working I wonder if you could give me some voltage readings so that I can see if it rings true with this one? So with the ignition off, the cable to gen unplugged & the battery relay pressed closed, could you give me the readings on those points I drew on the picture X Y Z K J & both the readings on the terminals by I. Then repeat with the contacts on the voltage regulator pushed open (they are closed at rest) & not forgetting the volts on the main + line ie C or wherever is easiest. The article? Apart from this 'research' I have created only 4,000 words over 37 hours that's only the document itself which is only about one third done. It takes the time because I keep re-writing bits to explain it better, find that I have gone into too much detail & then have to sort out the dyslexia idiosyncrasies. I have been creating the 5 circuit diagrams which has probably taken a similar length of time. But I'm quite pleased with those as all the various panels have diagrams constructed in differing ways making it difficult to see much similarity between them.

Jim, well done. To every electrical problem there should be a perfectly logical explanation! Well the goody goody answer is to dismantle it & repair the wire join on the resistor. The problem is it is a sort of collar filled with solder that makes contact to the resistance wire. I don't think it is a true soldered joint. If repairing it was a once off repair it would be worth doing. The worry is that it may recur & is a weak point in the construction & I assume that is the fault on this one here at my feet. As a medium term bodge it would be worth getting two 1 ohm wirewound resistors & wiring them in parallel to give you 0.5 ohms at 20 watts. Although I suspect the power rating needs to be higher. An easy source is here: http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=2181 Look at 10W W/W 1R HIR There are higher wattage resistors made by RS components that are metal encased & they can be bolted to the box that give not only stability but the box acts as a heat sink. That would be the better long term solution. Then you can see it is ok & keep an eye on it from time to time. Whatever you decide to do perhaps leave the lid off so you can see if it gets excessively hot. But certainly that resistor under the panel gets very hot normally. For the moment try to find some lengths of wire to make up the 0.5 ohms then at least you can use the system. Roll of wire cheaper than £180:-)

Jim the thing about that resistor is that is mounted on brackets. But on the lower end there is no electrical connection between the yellow arrows & you can see the yellow wire (that comes from the choke) soldered on, this is the weak spot. On the other end the mounting & the resistor are soldered together connecting the purple arrows. Then you can see the purple arrow on here where it surfaces through the terminal to supply the regulator itself. The problem is that the panel I have here has no continuity through that resistor either! This is just a thought, not so much for a permanent bodge but for diagnostic purposes. If you could attach a high wattage 0.5 ohm resistor between the +ve choke & the purple arrowed terminal it should all spring into life! How to get a high wattage low value resistor is a problem. For those sort of things I used to use some wire salvaged from an old electric fire & with an ohmeter measure off the length to give the required resistance then mount the ends in a ceramic terminal block. I suppose you could get some insulated fine wire & choose 0.5 ohms & wire it in temporarily. Then you can get volts to the regulator. Then volts to the field & then output! That will prove the point befre having to dismantle it. Even when you do a proper repair the resistance wire is often difficult to solder & the connection may have to be clamped.

Yes good man go for it. You will derive great satisfaction from the exercise, save a lot of money & learn quite a lot as you. If the worst comes to worst & you make a complete mess of it you have lost nothing in trying rather than fork out for another at this stage.

Jim the ignition need not be on & that's fine with the gen cable unplugged. So if you are getting 24v on pin X when you press the relay down & nothing on those points I labelled. Then I have found your problem! You have a fault in the load compensating resistor! It has either a burnt out wire or the connection to it has unsoldered. Although it is only 0.5 ohms it does get very hot indeed & sometimes the solder can melt. The resistor is underneath the regulator unit. If you trace the thick blue cable from pin X marked X1 it goes to a choke. Underneath that there is a much smaller yellow wire that heads back under the thick cable & disappears underneath through a notch in the side of the board. To there it goes to the 0.5 ohm wire wound resistor. It probably has failed at that point. If you look at the other end of the resistor marked X that corresponds to point X on the first picture. So if you got no voltage at point X there can be no other explanation than failure of the resistor or its soldered wire. You will always see evidence of intense heat around it. The fiddly bit is dismantling the board. I think you will have to remove the dividing screen & unscrew both boards. Take lots of pictures to remind you where things go. A fiddle or you can buy a new panel from the xmod for £180 I think. Seems expensive for the sake of probably a failed soldered joint.:-)

I don't know sorry I'm not into weapons, but it comes up as 2540-99-825-2683 Clip, rifle stowage. Also used by Belgium. I'll have to go into microfiche to get more details. So hang on. PS Can't find it catalogued on fiche. So what vehicle & what weapon was used by just UK & Belgium? If anyone knows the vehicle I have most IPCs in fiche but working backwards through all vehicles would take some time.

US kit also used by Spain, Australia, Belgium & Greece.

Jim don't worry about F at the moment. You're absolutely certain you are measuring V not U? As that would be zero. So with -ve prod on C or W which should equate to earth & with you pressing to close the relay tell me what voltages you can pick up on the letters marked below adjacent to the nearest terminal or soldered joint.

Yes it should be zero, I was talking bollox. I should have said, when you measure the volts on V, press the main relay down. Otherwise it will be zero. If it is earthed inside the panel Mr Bodger has been at work. It should be earthed outside after C leaves the panel, anyway it will work as long as the gen panel itself is earthed well. If you still get nothing on V still then it is either total failure of the regulator (in both windings which is unlikey, failure of one winding would still give some current to flow) or a failure of the load compensating resistor (failure of the other 3 resistors would still allow it to work pass some current)

Roy well the Piglet will be interesting when you show it on WW. If you go into their forum you will see a link to a very large & comprehensive view of how the British Army is structured. All good stuff but there are a couple of side swipes taken at MV enthusiasts. One is about the colour of Pink Panthers & the other is denying that Piglet is a term ever used in service. I have corresponed with the gentleman, but I could see we were getting nowhere because he doesn't understand the difference between VPK & HV VPK ie Piglet.

Leave the gen out, then just work on the panel. I'm leaning towards basing it all on not using resistance readings in the main. But to use voltage measurements in the gen panel. C on the gen panel is -ve follow this to the shunt box & you should find it is earthed sooner or later. If you are happy this is earthed connect voltmeter -ve to earth then turn the ignition on. Put the +ve prod to pin F on the input that should read 24v. Then on the put +ve prod on pin X it should read zero press the relay arm down (as is if it magnetised) then should read 24v. Put +ve prod in V & you should get a reading. Now I don't know what that will be but I imagine it would be 10-20v. This because nowhere can I find a spec for this CAV 'N' Type regulator. Then press the regulator arm down or up not sure as its not front of me & it should go up or down in voltage. I need to sit down & work out with Kirchoffs laws what effective resistance is placed in the two modes for this potential divider. But that's a little way off. Let me know what you get.

Well I think the thing to do know is determine whether conditions exist for power to be generate & then if it is generated why its not coming on the other end. Have you dismantled the gen or can you plug everything back together? Do make sure that the earth straps are in place as the -ve line is not earthed in the gen & nor in the gen panel. It is only after this! If that is ok you need to find if a voltage is present for the field winding & is applied to U & V. So take lid off gen panel & identify leads to those pins & tell me what you get.

Roy ok fine. Yes Pat has been a great help & set up the Shorland site for me. Actually I was admiring the Saxon Patrol quite recently. I'm not a modeller myself but respect those who are as they have a very good eye for detail & spot things others take for granted or not aware of e.g. the query you raised on the Pig with the extra protection in the gap by the wing. Nobody has ever raised that before with me. I can always spot a modeller at a show. They will take many pictures from all angles, not just a single view of the front & they will write down the answer you give in a notebook. A person did this very thing when he viewed RUC Pigs in 1969, which is why I know I have it correctly painted inside with white not aluminium & he took some rear shots & the inside. So I'm ever grateful for the modellers insight into how things were! Yes the RUC book is excellent I get a very generous acknowlegement. There are some pictures I contributed & there are three of my vehicles in it (Pig & 2 Shorlands). When you get Jochens book inside you wll see I am credited as the co-author. There is so much more information come to light over the last 14 years it really needs another. Jochen tells me it is my turn now! But it took a good year for him to do & in that year I did virtually no restoration work. He is always asked to do a reprint, but he can't do that as the picture royalties would be crippling. Because it was quite a low run museums allowed him to use the photos with minimal outlay. I have to say Jochens drawings are extremely good the most accurate I had ever seen for Humbers.

These are from my notes on part numbers either from parts catalogues & equivalents or types that I have found that were fitted in service. Thermostat, Smiths (bellows type) FV145168, LV6/MT1/SM/X/30065/42 (also /36), RE21886, X30065 Thermostat, (wax type) 78 degrees, FV669056, LV6MT1/6620-99-813-0240, RE26275, C3508-150-78CPL14660

Jim That's very good news. A nice clear cut result from a no frills no nonsense test. Not the misleading stuff from a digital meter! I have borrowed a gen & gen panel. To get some newer pictures & do resistance tests in various key points. I started to use a digital meter for this & it drove me up the wall. I was getting varied readings 8-20megs on the PTR pins that have no connection, the trouble is that it is autoranging & not always easy to see if it is on ohms, kilohms or megohms. I will carry out further readings on an Avo 8.

Roy. If you get really hooked on a roof hatch I have a series of pics that Jochen took that just didn't have enough room in the book for. Await with interest to see the finished thing it would be welcome I'm sure on this site: http://www.warwheels.net/whatsnew.html If you follow the link from there to my Shorland site you might get some ideas. What about a model of my RUC Shorland? There will also be plans & pics from a Dutch modelling magazine for a Dutch anti-hijack airport Police Shorland, now that would be unusual as well.

Not there on most Flying Pigs but you can see this "mud wing" forward of the wing hinges, just to block this gap where missiles & "mud" might pass. Jochens book is well worth getting, but out of print for many years. I have lifted a picture from the book showing this piece (the photo used in the book is my copyright)

Same probably, I've got some top shots somewhere. I don't know how the inside fittings went around the hatch, but it was a rectangular hatch set towards the rear. Macralon was the strong transparent stuff & was on hinges to raise it up on four sides when the hatch was open. There were some Flying Pigs & some Kremlins that had these & I think they were probably identical. But neither type necessarily had these hatches. There is one pig I saw with a mesh rectangular box instead of Macralon sides & hatch. There was a Holy Pig with a Macralon box permanently fitted on some Mk 1s. Some people assume these were Mk as some had a barricade ram which was also on some Mk 1s. What you can see most of is the top of the other wing. But there was also a mesh shield about the full width of the pig that was elevated when the wings were open it was mounted just behind the level of the wings. This is folded down in this shot. Wouldn't it bit easier to do one without a hatch?:-)

Roy, welcome to the pigsty. From records I have identified only 40 Flying Pigs. I have no figures for rear roof hatch but these were relatively few in number. When you ask about layout, what are you after? The roof hatch, flyers or the general internal layout? Have you got a Pig, looking for one or modelling one or just a general Pig well wisher? BTW there is model kit of a Mk 2 coming out soon.

Bob I would have jumped at it a year ago! I cut my turret up to reproduce a Vigilant turret, which as you know is entirely different from the Ferret 2/6 arrangement. Anyway after some years I came to my senses & last spring rebuilt it again to how nature had intended. BTW do you know what date the turret is?

EMERs? I'm tempted to answer but there is an overview of them here. In fact four articles! It also covers a bit on their replacement AESPs. http://hmvf.co.uk/forumvb/showthread.php?438-Electrical-Mechanical-Engineering-Regulations Normally a wheeled vehicle would have info in EMER WHEELED VEHICLES. The things like engine, distribultor, generator, generator panel etc would appear in entirely different sections of EMER POWER. The reason for this is that components & units may be common to several different vehicle types & there would be a vast amount of duplication. Unfortunately with Rovers this convention goes haywire. Unusually some of the charging system is included in EMER WHEELED VEHICLES using Rover civilian documents & some that have been rewriiten for military usage. Unfortunately it doesn't cover all aspects. There is some coverage of the the gen & gen panel in different sections of EMER POWER. Even so some of the gen material is also split off into another section under AC charging systems. In addition to that some EMERs were rewritten/updated to appear in AESPs & some only in FAESP format. Furthermore there were descriptions of some aspoects of the system in WO & Army Coded publications. I've got a modest collection of books here that cover pretty well what has been published. But intergrating the information is more challenging particularly where there are contradictions.

At least with a battery & bulb its good old fashioned does it/doesn't it technology. If you do have to do tests on the 3 main windings a multimeter of any sort is no good because the resistance is so low & making contact with the prods & their plugs can introduce slight resistance & you'll not know what you are measuring is a short circuit or the winding is ok. The best was is to pass 20 - 40 amps through & measure the voltage accross each coil. Anyway that is something for later maybe. The power diodes I saw for £1.50 were from 'the xmod'. Don't go buying any I haven't cross checked the part numbers yet. To fit you have to pull it apart & when you are in there it would be worth checking the brushes for wear. Last year I saw a dealer who had complete heatsink assemblies with all 9 diodes. I think they were Gen No.10, I would need to check as Gen No.9, which is 100 amps, looks very similar. Although even if it is for that the diodes could be lifted. Replacement just requires unsoldering the wire to the top terminal & unbolting it. I've got Generator Panels coming out of my ears. I am drawing coloured & simplified circuit diagrams for Mk A, 2, 3 & 4. I am trying to make them of identical layout so that improvements get be readily seen & yet the basic principle of operation can be followed on the next diagram having got familiar with the last. It is not helped with the illogical way EMERs for Rovers have been compiled. I now have a situation where 5 resistors around the regulator have the same names but for dissimilar functions. Some of these diagrams are wrong. However I interpret it someone will tell me I am wrong! Anyway back to Paint. Trouble is a couple of the images got saved as 300kb jpgs & rather than 10Mb bmp so as the the neat lines & things have lost their clarity with a peripheral fuzz & a slight grey haze around that. So having to rub out sections & reconstruct it again. At least it gives me something to do in the warm!