psychoman Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 Hi all Quick question (and apologies if its been covered before, but I couldn't find this specifically)... I'm currently running a 712M Pinzgauer (6x6, rag top) - its a great vehicle, and worked well as a weekend camper/military show vehicle/occasional offroader, but its a bit small for us now we have a little'un. So I'm thinking of buying another MV with a view to keeping the exterior as it was in the services, but with a camper conversion internally. Basic criteria: 1. Must be capable of taking 3, preferably 4 in the cab with proper seat belts. 2. Must be under 7.5 ton GWV as stock, or capable of being down-rated to 7.5 ton legitimately, so both my wife and I can drive it on our current licenses. 3. Sleep 2 adults and one or two kids in the back - probably in a box back? 4. Have some off road ability, but still a pukka ex-Military truck. To date we've looked into Bedford MJ, DAF 45/150, RB44, ZIL131... all have pros and cons - biggest issue seeming to be satisfying conditions 1 and 2 (3 and 4 seem more straightforward!!!). So guys - looking for thoughts and comments. FYI I'm planning a visit to Withams at the end of September to look at specific vehicles back-to-back, so any thoughts before then would be really appreciated. All the best Dave S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormin Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 I can offer some words of advice re the down-rating as I did my Bedford MJ several years ago. The word from the ministry then was that there has to be at least 2 tonnes of usable payload left after down-rating to 750kg GVW. This was fine with the MJ coming in at around 5200kg unladen. According to the weights on Whithams site the Day 45/150 is 6500kg unladen, so when downrated would only allow a 1 tonne payload. I suspect the ministry will not allow this as it is very likely to be exceeded, unless you get special permission. It certainly wouldn't allow much capacity for a box body without being back overweight, wereas an MJ would be fine. As to your other options. RB44, is it really going to give you any more room than the Pinz? Zil 131, never going to get it below 7500kg so your going to be relying on it being pre 1960 commercial, "used unladen" which means you can't even put your camping gear in the back. The simple solution by an MJ, there a good truck, bit of a plodder but solid and simple. Downside is only two people in the cab. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psychoman Posted August 30, 2011 Author Share Posted August 30, 2011 Cheers Norman, helpful. I take your point re the DAFs, though I have seen at least a couple through overland sites that had been re-rated to 7500kg, so guess I need to look at that again. Similarly some of the ZIL131s I've seen for sale have been advertised as being capable as being driven on a car license, so clearly something doesn't quite add up there. Re the MJs, I believe I've seen some with a 3 seater configuration in the cab, or am I mistaken? Tricky... Anyone else got any thoughts on this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnwardle Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 Leyland Dafs CAN be downrated to 7.5 tonnes GVW, mine has been! when fitted with a box body, mine has a gutted electronics repair body, and fitted with a fixed bed, cooking facilities & storage facilities and NO LOAD CARRYING CAPACITY it can be legally registered as a motor caravan. Road tax is £165.00 per year (Private Heavy Goods) the Mot class is large clas 4. I rang VOSA for advice before doing this. The unladen weight given by Whithams must be wrong as my truck still displays a 9 tonne bridging plate. dedeucting the 4 tonne payload gives an unladen weight of 5 tonnes. Personally I found Withams rather unhelpful, I bought my truck from Dave Crouch, of Crouch Recovery, who not only downrated it, but also Moted registered and taxed it, at extra cost naturally, so all I had to do was pay for it and drive away. Remember if you buy a vehicle from Withams first you have to transport it from their yard, then get it insured, downrated, MOTed, then registered, all a lot of hassle & expense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferrettkitt Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 (edited) Some RB44's have three seats in the cab, the drivers seat is nicely sprung and can be reclined and lowered to suit leg length and height. The passenger seat is a fixed backed affair which is completely unsuitable for man or dog. If you fitted another 'proper' seat in its place it wouldn't be a three seater any more. Space wise in the back you could sleep four under canvas with two adults across the load bed and children inbetween the seats but you would run out of space in the back if you wanted to add a toilet, a shower or proper beds. Cab is a none starter not enough usable seats Space in back not enough for what you're after But as you said its a winner on the driving licence side but it falls down for the reasons above. Leyland Dafs CAN be downrated to 7.5 tonnes GVW, mine has been! when fitted with a box body, mine has a gutted electronics repair body, and fitted with a fixed bed, cooking facilities & storage facilities and NO LOAD CARRYING CAPACITY it can be legally registered as a motor caravan. Road tax is £165.00 per year (Private Heavy Goods) the Mot class is large clas 4. I rang VOSA for advice before doing this. The unladen weight given by Whithams must be wrong as my truck still displays a 9 tonne bridging plate. dedeucting the 4 tonne payload gives an unladen weight of 5 tonnes.Personally I found Withams rather unhelpful, I bought my truck from Dave Crouch, of Crouch Recovery, who not only downrated it, but also Moted registered and taxed it, at extra cost naturally, so all I had to do was pay for it and drive away. Remember if you buy a vehicle from Withams first you have to transport it from their yard, then get it insured, downrated, MOTed, then registered, all a lot of hassle & expense. Someone near me has done something very similar to that if not the same DAF details Power Steering, Hi/Lo diff lock, 3 seats, air brakes, rear Nato style hitch Length: 6.65m Width: 2.49m Height: 3.43m Weight: 6500Kgs Withams must be taking the vehicles weight directly from the plate in the cab?? Edited August 30, 2011 by ferrettkitt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kev_the_mole Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 What about converting a Green Goddess? 6/7 seater cab, 2WD/4WD, hi/lo range. Gut the back end and it will give you loads of admittedly low storage? I'm just converting a very rotten one into a flat bed transporter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormin Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 Cheers Norman, helpful. I take your point re the DAFs, though I have seen at least a couple through overland sites that had been re-rated to 7500kg, so guess I need to look at that again. Similarly some of the ZIL131s I've seen for sale have been advertised as being capable as being driven on a car license, so clearly something doesn't quite add up there. Re the MJs, I believe I've seen some with a 3 seater configuration in the cab, or am I mistaken? Tricky... Anyone else got any thoughts on this? Re the Zil i never said it couldn't be driven on a car licence, only that you can't then carry any load with it. What others have said re the Daf also makes sense if you convert it specifically as a camper i.e. no load carrying capacity it can be downrated. I think the box has to be "permanently" fixed on the back though to stop you removing and using it as a truck to carry other loads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psychoman Posted August 31, 2011 Author Share Posted August 31, 2011 Thanks. Think the RB44 looks like its too small on reflection and feedback. Love the idea of the Green Goddess, but for my purposes its probably a little long in the tooth, maybe (waits for cries to the contrary!!!). Think I may look a little closer at the DAF route, as there are a few for sale and seems to tick most boxes if I can sort out the de-rating side of things. John W - if I drop you a PM would you mind giving more details on your truck? Thanks all - appreciate the help and advice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amphibi boy Posted August 31, 2011 Share Posted August 31, 2011 Would it not be easier to go for a HGV test, then you don't need to have anything downrated, you can then use it as is. My friend has an arctic with low loader, he has it on p.l.g. Use, as it's for his own personal use, not business. Just an idea! Cheers Shaun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psychoman Posted August 31, 2011 Author Share Posted August 31, 2011 Would it not be easier to go for a HGV test, then you don't need to have anything downrated, you can then use it as is. My friend has an arctic with low loader, he has it on p.l.g. Use, as it's for his own personal use, not business. Just an idea! Cheers Shaun Aye - but that would be me and the wife, plus whatever aggro is involved in tachos, insurance, etc - de-rating is definitely easier all around, if I can find a suitable vehicle that is... :undecided: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferrettkitt Posted September 1, 2011 Share Posted September 1, 2011 Aye - but that would be me and the wife, plus whatever aggro is involved in tachos, insurance, etc - de-rating is definitely easier all around, if I can find a suitable vehicle that is... :undecided: Tachos only come into it if its a working vehicle, if its for private use you can submit an exemption at the time of MOT test. I have to do that for the RB44. A camper van is MOT'd on a class 4 so I have been informed. I think passing the HGV test is a non starter just for occasional use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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