LarryH57

I think if this vehicle served in Malta then it's almost a certainty that it had a sand base colour when there that looked like the vehicles in this link http://maltacommand.com/malta camouflage.html

Ted, I should haven't said camo when what I meant was a matt base colour of G3. I appreciate that they are just shaddows on the engine cover - so the options for the colour of the Crossley FE1 Crash Tender above are; Gloss Red, Gloss RAF Blue Grey or Matt base colour of G3 or similar. We may never know. And now for something different; a photo of Middleton St George I guess in 1945, which I think you may have seen. Can you or other members ID the truck at the tip of the second Lanc's wingtip? I believe the vehicle pulling the control hut is a Commer Q2 heater van, and what looks like an AEC Matador 6x6 refueler covered in people is on the left with a Bedford MW nearby.

Going back to the question of Crossley FE1 Crash Tenders, Ted suggests that at least one pre-war was gloss red, so somewhere there must be an AMO requesting such or a note to manufactureres asking for them to be delivered like that. Unfortuately I can't find when the production of the FE1 ended or where they were built Obviously from the outbreak of war they were toned down somewhat with camo BTW - The attached photo is the one that made me think everything pre-war was RAF Blue Grey. It doesn't look shiney. If it is matt camo then it was less likely to have RAF on the side (though not impossible) as 'RAF' soom disappeared on camo'd vehicles in favour of the roundel. Could it be gloss red when no part of it seems to shine? Incidentally, did you notice that the Crossley FE1 in the colour photo above has gloss wheels, which still makes me think it was Blue Grey originally

Here is the new website http://www.militaryworldshow.com/index.html Anyone like me who attended MWS in August 2016 at the Hop Farm will probably be getting an application through the post for the new show at the former RAF Abingdon airfield. No fees for MVs!

And what is the basis of the book; Is it to detail how bad some war movies were and (in the minority) how good others were? Do you pick up on such things as M-47 tanks playing Panzers or Hotchkiss for Jeeps etc? And do you study the credability or otherwise of the plot, like the junk the 1960s film industry used to churn out each year! I seem to remember one I saw on TV circa 1965 that portrayed the US army in Jeeps doing what the LRDG did in the Western Desert!

Riuxy, you forgot your comment?

Occasionally you can also find Bronze Green parts on a Nato Green Landrover, such as the upper bulkhead on my 1980 Lwt. No doubt , when it needed replacing, a Bronze Green one was still on the shelf in stores and that got used, after which it was given a splash of Nato Green to make it match the rest.

Baz - I totally agree but on the other hand if you know the period of the photo and the orders for the period its a fare assumption. After all there could be someone saying that all British Vehicles in WW2 were painted in two shades of grey as every photo it seems shows this.

Thanks Bryan. Regarding the Trojan Vans which were built from about 1927, what I'm asking is whether the colour scheme is correct (whether or not it's a real ex-RAF vehicle) ? In looking at Bart Vanderveen's book on military vehicles up to 1940 the GB section regarding Vans shows an RAF vehicle that also looks decidedly gloss Blue Grey and not Service Brown (as used in WW1 till 1930's) nor gloss dark green either. If so that means the Blue Grey must have been in use quite early and before it was added to the range of colours in 1933.

Ted. Another thought: In the RAFM is a Leyland Trojan Van in RAF Blue Grey but these were built well before 1937 So how come this example and ones seen in period photos show this colour even though it wasn't in BS. 381c till 1933?

Ted thanks as ever! I thought that red fire engines were only a post war thing, so its interesting to read that one at least was red pre-war. However its a bit hard for me to see any other base colour other than Blue Grey in the photo I attached. Seeing also that the Crossley at RAF Northolt (in Blue Grey with Black mudguards) that you commented on earlier, I don't think it is out of the question to have a Blue Grey tender with a bit of camo on it (even if it is not in a style agreed by AMO.

Another 'interesting photo'. This early version of a Crossley Crash Tender (an FE1) was made pre-war and delivered in RAF Blue Grey, so is this an example of one that has had brown patches of camo added to tone down the Blue Grey a bit, but otherwise it is not in Khaki G3 or anything similar for that period? I don't believe it is a colourized photo and I think is from Life Magazine. An RAF Roundel on the nearside wing says this is wartime, and not some 1930's experiment. Adding to my theory is the fact that the 'brown' looks roughly applied over an otherwise neat Blue Grey base and the wheels also look to be their original gloss colour. If the vehicle was half way through being painted I don't think the roundel would have been applied?

Dave, Old post I know - but what has happened to your photos - did Photobucket pull the plug? Is your jeep on this ? http://www.network54.com/Forum/47210/message/1502975155/Crash+Tenders+and+Ambulances

IMHO - it's an important bit of kit to preserve. Is it one that reads reals of microsfiche or the square flat sheets, as so often used at the auto spares shops. The ones that read reals are important if you get old records in museums that are kept like that. 15 years ago I got access to a real of USAAF unit records & combat reports from Maxwell AFB and even then it was a job finding a bit of kit to read the archive.

Thanks Bryan, Is there a date when the RAF ditched civi style registrations and adopted new ones - or was it a case of new vehicles and new style and the old civi ones carried on till the vehicle was destroyed, or worn out & scrapped ?

On prewar RAF vehicles, they had civilian style registration numbers, and these continued in to early WW2. When did these get cancelled in favour of RAF numbers. Also is it possible to find where a vehicle from 1939 was registered with a civi registration?

Bryan, get down to that Fordson immediately with a brush and can of black gloss and correct that heanous error!

Many thanks once again Ted for the AMOs I presume the ambulances that were white were only the ones used overseas? And as for AMO Number A100, the Khaki I guess was the G3 used by the British Army?

Thanks Ted, I know that Black front mudguards are shown in photos taken at RAF Cardington mostly on Fordson Sussex Balloon Winches and a Ford Van (and the RAF Northolt Crash Tender above) but I have not seen any on a Tender. BTW has that 1937 AMO got a number or reference? As always thanks for your input

Get well soon Bryan! If I get a chance I'd like to come to RAFM to see the archives Regards Larry

Bryan, Have a look at this for example from 1940. I have much better photos, that for the moment I cannot post here. I agree its not common to see black mudguards but the idea must have originated pre-war. At the moment my research shows Fordsons painted like this, with both balloon winch versions and the crash tender types having gloss black mudguards. But I have also seen a pre-war Ford Van like this too. The Fordson in photos on page 1 of this thread supports this too. I agree it was not common place and clearly black mudguards in the blackout did not help hence the added white over them to varying designs. So any clues as to why it was allowed?

Believe it or not after a few years of trying on and off I found the Archive this afternoon. The only problem was they have not uploaded the film I want but I have emailed to request it The Archive is called MACE and has a great selection of films so have a search through. It is amazing what is on film archive and online too. http://www.macearchive.org/mace-themes

A bit of a wild card question, but I'm trying to find out if ATV Midland films have an archive, and the contact details for them. In September 1974 ATV Midlands filmed a day in the lift of 115 Sqn at RAF Cottesmore, over a two day period. The film was broadcast on TV on 12th September 1974 and I would like to get a copy as my father was a pilot with the Sqn at the time.

Thanks Bryan but black mudguards are seen on pre-war RAF vehicles in some of the photos I have posted here, and of course the RAF Ford Sussex Balloon winch you had on display in RAFM is a perfect example

A quick question; Going back a bit to the time of RAF Blue Grey as the base colour were mudguards painted gloss black at the start, or did they come later?