Enfield1940

Pics attached of the latest addition to the smock collection. Snagged on eBay for a fairly reasonable 20 quid delivered as the seller didn't know what it was and photographed it badly. Looks like it's from the same HE Textiles batch as this one that Eaglehurst posted a couple of years ago: http://hmvf.co.uk/forumvb/showthread.php?26042-Early-Pattern-DPM-Para-Smock A quirk I like is that the lower pockets and both sides of the crotch flap are made from 'dotty' DPM whereas the rest isn't I could believe looking at the colours that the 'dotty' fabric is sateen and the 'non-dotty' is modal. It also looks like it's had parachute wings glued on it at some point. No doubt the notch out of the side of the crotch flap was made by an Argentinian bullet at Goose Green...:-D Cheers, Mark PS. If you scroll down to the bottom of this page, there's some interesting information about HE Textiles: http://raoc.websitetoolbox.com/post?id=5816423&goto=nextnewest

Buy all the 'run of the mill' stuff while you still can chaps. Once Steve's book comes out, it'll have the same effect on prices that the Europa Militaria books and Karkeeweb have had on British webbing.

Information on the lifting frame, etc. from the salvage company: http://www.rafmuseum.org.uk/research/blog/seatechs-role-in-saving-the-dornier/

Round three of 'Date That Smock'...:-D Pics attached of my newly acquired Arctic Windproof Smock. Not a particularly newsworthy example, but it's in overall very good condition and the price was very reasonable. It has a maker name, so pre-mid nineties. I note that it has washing instructions on the label which the also Cookson & Clegg made 'SAS' smock doesn't have. Does this help date it? Thanks, Mark

Thanks for that. In which case I shall leave it be. Who am I to question the official specs..?

Cripes! http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SAS-smock-DMP-S-A-S-windproof-camouflage-jacket-coat-H-E-Textiles-Ltd-large-/111061277100?_trksid=p2047675.l2557&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT&nma=true&si=BHjEZsrcSZfvs8%252FuOKO3n6gaa0c%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc

Thanks for the comments. I'm also expecting an arctic windproof through the post some time this week and I'll post some pics when it does. Forgot to ask: are the two laces on the back of the neck for securing the hood? If so, what is the correct / official way to do it? Thanks, Mark

This week's other acquisition was a size 7 1/4 DPM combat cap. This was an eBay gamble that it would be big enough to fit me. Sadly not quite, so it looks like I need a 7 1/2 size one. (Join the queue I suspect...:undecided:) I'm slightly puzzled as to when it was made. It looks like it's made of the earlier sateen material and has a pre-metric size, but it also has an 8415 prefix NSN which I believe is a post-1977 feature? Cheers, Mark

I've acquired another 'SAS' windproof smock. The price this time was merely reasonable rather than a bargain, but it's in only lightly used condition compared to the other one. I'm guessing it was made in the early 1990's going by the presence of a maker name on the label and the colour of the buttons. Can anyone improve on that? Cheers, Mark

I spotted that not long after it was listed and compared it with the pics earlier in this thread. But likewise it wasn't me - the condition and starting price wasn't really leaping at me and early DPM tends to float my boat more than OG.

Thanks for the comments. I note that there's no name on the label and there's no sign it has ever had badges on it. I know this doesn't prove anything, but does it at least raise the possibility that the smock is not entirely unacquainted with Hereford..? It's also been interesting comparing the Gabardine (?) fabric with a polycotton CS-95 windproof - lighter and softer. Cheers, Mark

I had a spot of luck and picked up a reasonably tidy 'SAS' windproof smock for £9 delivered via eBay as the lady fashionista seller hadn't a clue what it was and listed it very badly. Her loss... Curious to know what sort of date range it is likely to be? The DPM print looks CS-95ish to me, so presumably it's 1990's onwards? Cheers, Mark

Perhaps, but I suspect that would be very rapidly followed by emergency legislation to ban them. Can you imagine the shock! horror! outrage! headlines? Yes the UK is a CIP signatory, but they'd find a way of fudging it if they really wanted to.

An interesting subject. My thoughts... I don't know whether the Russian certificate would be material in a UK court. It may relate to the currently (AFAIK) unresolved question of whether the UK's recognition of non-UK proof marks applies to deactivation? As I've mentioned on here before, a chap on the wwiireenacting forum wrote to the Home Office for clarification and they didn't actually give him a straight answer. The version I've heard on these foreign made factory inerts is that their import and possession is *tolerated* as there doesn't seem to be anything in the current law that makes them specifically illegal. I think it would be fair to say though that they're the sort of thing (like pre95 deacts) that are vulnerable to future legislative changes.

Here's the place to ask for that sort of thing: http://www.bocn.co.uk/vbforum/ Check prices on Specialist Auctions as well: http://www.specialistauctions.com/categories.php?parent=1946&show=subcats

A friend of mine has just acquired a size 6 1960 Pattern smock which is tidy, but has a broken zip. It’s an early one with a ‘Swift’ brand zip. Has anyone any clever ideas as to how this could be replaced? Can spare zips in the right length be had? E.g. Could a zip from a lower value 1968 Pattern smock be used? All suggestions gratefully received. Mark

The seller may have noticed the £80 I got for a size 2 a few months back...

Who spotted the size 6 DPM P60 smock that went for a cool £107 a few days ago? Whilst it's a less desirable size, it makes the size 7 one I got earlier this year for £35 off eBay (badly listed) look like a relative bargain.

If it's the same as the one my friend has, they are smaller than real ones.

Alternatively a pre-1965 dated black mug may suggest green ones didn't exist? (Although I think that's unlikely) More idle theorising: perhaps there was some sort of design flaw with the green mugs that meant they got broken very easily and hardly any have survived?

It sounds more like the experimental one to me. Perhaps when that fell through they decided to make things simpler and designed a bottle and mug of roughly 1944 Pattern dimensions, but made of plastic? One minor oddity I forgot to mention: the '62 dated one fits an ordinary 90's dated black mug I have, but the '64 dated one is noticeably smaller.

I've since managed to acquire a couple of examples of the OG bottles and the colour variation of the bottles and caps is quite interesting. The left hand one is 1962 dated and maker marked 'Cascelloid' and 'Cascaflex' on the base. Interestingly, Cascelloid was the company that gave the world the Action Man doll: http://www.museumofchildhood.org.uk/collections/british-toy-making-project/toy-manufacturers/palitoy The other is 1964 dated and maker marked 'F&G'. (currently unidentified) Going by the Karkeeweb page, 1965 seems to have been the year they switched to black. The quest goes on to find a matching OG cup. There's limited anecdotal evidence they existed, but if so they seem to be Hen's teeth now.

WTF??!!!:wow: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/para-smock-/261128986762?nma=true&si=KDZgUptuEG8Pof7%2FZOk%2B1Jmyn2o%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

Looks like they've finally arrived: http://iacmc.forumotion.com/t7691-identify-this-smock-mtp-para-smock http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/130801047610?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/130801047137?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649 Quite how people are getting new ones to sell..?

Possibly a daft question, but how do you tell if they're made of Sateen or Gabardine as my one has a scrubbed label? It has horn coloured buttons rather than olive green if that's of any help to dating it.