wdbikemad

I've a fair few DPM 60 pattern smocks and trousers........but the cut is not as good as the later 68 pattern that set-out to address a number of issues with the earlier suit............but prices are prices and they seem to fetch a premium nowadays.........

We could allways come and lend you a hand. LOL

 

Much appreciated, tho I suspect the stash would rapidly diminish.............:-D

1970-72 production 1968 pattern combat shirt in khaki........green from 72 onwards........:-D

A very large quantity of 60 pattern DPM smocks and trousers were made by James Smith & Cookson & Clegg Ltd between 1970 and 71 under at least 4 separate contracts.......and judging by the number surviving today, they are not all that rare..........but they hold the distinction of being the very 1st issue pattern DPM combat garments........I unearthed a new Size 8 today that I didn't even know I had........

I gave up sorting through kit today after nearly 2 hours because my toes and fingers had turned blue......:-( I got to around 38 '68 pattern smocks with still a huge pile of crates and boxes to go............I will now wait for warmer weather before going any further.......:-D

 

In my defence, this huge stash will be for the benefit of the forthcoming book.........after that, it may well be seriously reduced.........

Thanks Harry.......these just came out of one box....all size 6 & 3/4.............though I have a "few" more somewhere....:cool2:

 

A small selection of DPM "Crap Hats", or officially "Cap, Combat, DPM"........all new, the one on the top-row even has a store label still stuck to the visor (it would be a shame to remove it....:-D).......again, a wide variety of different coloyrs and ;patterns of DPM and some manufacturing mis-matching of components (eg - non-matching visor with the cap body, etc).........

 

New DPM hoods, manufacture from early 70s through to early 80s.........look at the sheer variety of colours and patterns of DPM.......in particular, on the top-row, note the VERY "dark yellow" hood and the very light example not too far away from this............:-D

Dug-out these two new early 1980s manufactured 1968 pattern DPM combat smocks today.....both are a Size 2 and with the post-77/78 revised fabric and "8415" NSN coding......both made by good old James Smith................

Interesting to view the two cammo patterns and colours here.......both rather light, and both with the "dots" to the pattern that some collectors associate with early-70s DPM...........these are both far later production, illustrating the point that you can't really go by DPM alone to date any 70s-80s garment......:-D

 

I found this brand new Canadian-issue DPM para smock today when going through some stuff. Dated 1987, I cannot recall when or where I obtained this.......it makes an interesting comparison against the UK-issue gear.........

and the second issue introduced from the mid-1970s replacing the earlier green version......these are unlined nylon, not PVC, and were again originally for NI only. Good for street patrols and VCP's, they were a hazard in the country for patrols due to the excessive noise generated !!!!! Near identical to the green issue, with matching trousers, the only difference being the addition of velcro tabs to the cuffs, replacing the press-studs of the green version.............again, 3 sizes made, and these were replaced by the PVC waterproof smock and trousers around 1984.............note the exceptionally bright DPM colours of this unissued example........not as scarce as the green version but becoming hard to find nowadays........:-D

At long last I've dug-out this rare example of the early-mid 70s first-issue British Army "Crisp Packet" nylon waterproof overjacket in the scarce olive green...........unlined, two velcro-fastened chest pockets, simple hood with drawcord, zip-front with press-stud fastened over-flap, and press-stud tabs on the cuffs........on the 2nd (DPM) issue the cuff adjusters were replaced with velcro tabs........this one isn't in the best condition but rare now...few (in green) have survived......these were NI issue only.......:-D .....these lasted only for a couple of years, the DPM replacing it although stocks remained available into the 80s (still listed in August 86 QM list although obsolete)....made in three sizes only, small, medium and large......matching trousers also produced.....

I got one issued in the ACF about 1971. Gutted: wanted a proper green one.

 

You forgot to mention the slits in the shoulder so that you could feed the epaulettes of your shirt through, requiring only one set of rank badges and shoulder titles.

 

I think the "slits" were on the lighter-weight non-ribbed pully, V-necked (to allow it to be worn beneath the open-neck 49 pattern BD blouse in cold weather), with patches and in green.........believe it or not, this item was intended as part of the jungle kit (!), later adopted as a general issue for many troops............the heavy pullover had no such slits, although later issues in the 60s did have in some cases sewn-on cloth epaulettes.....:-D

Steve - do you know what the largest size was in the 1950's pattern shirts as per Chevpols examples in the photos?

 

Jason - have you been in hiding...????!!!!!!!! (I think) they went up to size 8, similar range to windproofs, etc,..........but by the 70s this was rationed down to 4 standard sizes "0 to 3"............

 

PS - Jason, join the "Forces 80" group on Facebook....hugely interesting, livelier than the Forum at times, and good for kit..........

Nice photos !!!! I plan to get over to the farm, dig-out all my KF shirts and photo in sequence..........

 

Biggest green KF shirt made was a size 3........anything larger was "size special" (made to order via a QM demand).........a 3 should fit up to a 46" chest, 38" waist...............

 

As for the original pattern list I posted, do note that there is some overlap between patterns, manufacturers variants (including colour), and "officers models" that in some cases mirror the issue types but have the odd difference.......

:idea: IMPRESSED!!! Maybe The Wrangler Jean Co. would be interested in buying your 'formula' lol

 

And whilst on the subject, (sort of), did anyone get issued with a brown jersey heavy wool, instead of the green one? They were great, had elbow patches, a neck drawstring, and didnt smell of mothballs when they got wet.

 

The "classic" green woolly pully wasn't actually introduced until the early 70s as part of the widescale overhaul of uniforms at the time........the first issue was a loose knit, 100% cotton-drill patches, no epaulettes and had the thick "double-knit" cuffs.......these were replaced from the mid/late 70s onwards by the type we are familiar with today.......if you so a green pully at any 60s re-enactment it's wrong....!!!

 

The older pattern jersey predating the green versions was a derivative of the heavy pully introduced during WW2 as part of the cold weather and mountain ensemble, and were used extensively in Korea........loose-knit ribbed brown wool with a "boat" or "slot"-type neck with a drawcord for tightening......during the 50s/60s khaki-drill patches were added to the sleeves, followed by the shoulders a bit later, and then button-down epaulettes...there is additional reinforcement in drill around the neck opening and cuff-ends.....these have (wrongly) become known as "SAS" pullys (as frequently adopted by SAS troops) when in actual fact they were general cold-weather issue to all by the 60s..........the last few went out of service in the 70s when the green pully replaced it..........last examples were made around 1969-70........they are a distinct brown colour, and the patches a pale khaki "sand" shade.......

 

You can still get replicas of the WW2 and later versions from SOF (Soldier of Fortune) and WPG (What Price Glory) at around £50..........they look good but availability seems up and down. Originals are almost non-existant nowadays...........

:-D:-D So how long did they last??? I remember tie-dying Wrangler jeans using bleach, they fell into holes in no time!! Bet your QMS did a roaring trade in new KFs.

 

They were seemingly indestructable.............I left after 3 years still wearing my original issue........I think I still have one new spare one somewhere mouldering away........

I put my green KF shirts, when new, into a bucket full of strong bleach........it burnt off most of the hairyness, and afterwards shoved 'em into a couple of washes in the block machine (usual "boil" setting !!!)........

 

They were very comfortable thereafter, although had turned a rather odd shade of pale grey-green.........still, looked rather "ally".......:-D

1971 - "1968 pattern" "Shirt Mans Combat"....similar to above but no pleats on pockets.....

 

Would be very interested to see one of these compared to the later green ones as have heard mention of them and despite owning probably 10+ of the green and 50s shirts have NEVER seen one of the 197 types.

 

There was a feature in a 71 edition of Soldier Magazine showing the various new items coming into service with the army at the time........this included DPM, new coveralls, the TML lightweight trousers, plus the shirts, combat.......interestingly the article mentions that first issues for 71-72 would be khaki (KF) and then green from 72 onwards.........

 

It's fair to say though that the KF shirts were very hard wearing and lasted for years, and there were likely considerable stocks of the khaki version of various patterns remaining that continued on issue well into the 70s.........we had a bod issued with some during the early 80s rather than the green that was almost universal by then, mind you, he was exceptionally lanky.......the combat shirt was made in 4 sizes (0 through to 3) to fit the majority of individuals..........I think Sabre Sales still have a few new examples knocking around....?

Not often covered........but here goes.......I will post some images soon.......:-D

 

British Army "hairy" wool-flannel shirts.......

 

WW2 - pullover style, collarless, no pockets........most have grey zinc buttons, issues from 42-44 plastic.......

 

1944 - As above but attached collar..........plastic buttons........

 

1948-49 - Revised pattern......attached collar, shortened tails, box-pleated breast pockets, epaulettes, plastic buttons...

 

1951 - As above, but tails lengthened again, front has a lower "wrap-over" cut...........

 

1964 - "1964 pattern".....as above, but tails shortened, conventional (straight) front, smarter "modern" cut.........

 

1971 - "1968 pattern" "Shirt Mans Combat"....similar to above but no pleats on pockets.....

 

1972 onwards - as above, but colour changed from khaki brown to olive drab............this shirt lasted until the poly-cotton "Shirt GS" introduced during the mid-80s.....

 

Typically, with all the above, old stocks had to be used up first........

 

I have examples of all the above and will post pics soon......:-D

It was removed as it was copyrighted to someone else.. see forum rules..

 

Oh well....I was just going to look at the cap badge more closely to check against references.......... although I won't be referring to Forum rules (no disrespect intended) as this is the responsibility of the person posting, not mine as a mere commentator......:-)

yes but what about the cap badge?..also have a photo with desert rats sleeve patch and beret with cap badge of RGJ..so why are they both worn?..anyone?

 

The image has disappeared !!!!!

So Royal Marines it is-excellent;)

 

Are these more desireable due to their label and I take it were probably made in smaller numbers than other Denisons?

 

Depends on the size of the contract !!!! Still a Denison tho, regardless to whom issued or ordered !!! :-D But at least you can pin this example down to RM issue........

 

To add to this, I have never seen an "Air Ministry" (RAF) example (intended for 2 (para) Sqn Raf Regt, BUT, the Denison IS listed with a "22C" (flying clothing) series of reference numbers.........so, did RAF-contracted examples exist.....???!!!

Were Sgts, Corporal etc stripes different for Home Guard than other british army type, in thier appearence ?

 

cheers

 

 

Jules

 

No.....same issue........very early on the LDV did have a short-lived system of dark blue rank strips on the shoulder straps before the normal Army rank insignia replaced this......

Nice 60 pattern DPM smock........dating this to the early 70s.......