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Again posted before, but a rather nice Size 2 early DPM Para Smock by H E Textiles LTD..........

Posted these before, but another rather nice early DPM Para smock with a peculiar stud variation .......Size 1 and can just be made out by "F Fryer"...........lovely colours !!! :-D

Yep, I've got more info on HE Textiles from the early 80s stating that they were given a massive combat clothing order by the MoD for DPM gear.............

I have had a few para smocks in my time that were constructed similarly with non-matched DPM component parts.......

Beautiful example - well done !!!

I might add that some of the others are a more "olive" colour, tho same size and condition.............

Found a "source" with a few green 1960s OG "SAS" windproof smocks that MAY be up for grabs...........they won't be cheap and no guarantee that I can get 'em......... Here's a taster tho.........late 1960's (up to 1970) green smock, beautiful grey-green gabardine fabric, huge Size 8 (largest made) and by "BMC"....note the NSN "error" on the label (corrected by some bod in the factory by biro !!!!!).....this one is almost mint........

My source has about 3 - 4 of these, very similar and all Size 8's...........one is already spoken for (Jason !!!) but I need to sort out a deal to try and acquire these.......they are serious "rocking horse" and far rarer than the DPM version......:-D

Had some correspondence with the Author.....sounds like a great book, superb info and illustrations, but will still not cover the stuff that will be in mine (eg - the "run of the mill" combat kit from Korea through to the 90s).....and after all, you can't beat a bit of healthy competition !!!! :-D

That sounds like a bargain ! Piccies ????

The old Bombardier replaced the BSA B40 (350cc 4-stroke) in the late-70s and served until the early 90s when replaced by the 500cc 4-stroke Armstrong..........

I did several thousand miles on these things, and they were not very popular nor reliable.........they were hated by trainees and instructors alike as the 2-stroke Rotax engine was fairly high-powered (and smokey !!!) and could lift the front wheel fairly easily under eager acceleration......lol....

The electrics were supremely dodgy, and the fuel tanks split with alarming regularity...........this happened to me on a midnight run, the dodgy wiring causing the whole bike to burst into flames.........(I hadn't noticed at the time) but according to witnesses I looked like a meteor going down the road at about 55mph with a 50-metre flame tail behind me from burning fuel........

On another Can-Am I hit a truck broadside on.....totalising the bike in the process..........(and my right-leg)..........

Somewhere, I have a copy of the full NATO workshop manual for these horrible things.................:-D

There's a good book you should read Steve! It's called 'British Forces Motorcycles' It will explain to you how a Royal Enfield WD/C is a 350 SV, not 250! Ha Ha. Ron

Anyone can hit the wrong key Ron !!!! Especially with my dodgy fingers, worn out after years of typing........

All of the WD bikes (nowadays) on modern fuels and arguably in far better loving condition are all around the same in terms of performance...........my 16H Norton easily out-paces the Ariel W/NG in terms of bottom-end "grunt" and top-speed (she will do a genuine 75 mph) and although heavier and a 500cc sidevalve, she out-performs the 350cc OHV Ariel everytime..........I find the Norton more "brutal" than the Ariel, and far less "gentle".............if that makes sense.....

I've owned and ridden extensively at one time or another all of the common WD bikes...........a good M20 is reliable and quick, if very heavy.......a G3 Matchless heavy but rather quick and far better than the G3L..........but I did over 20000 miles on a 250cc sidevalve Enfield WD/C as daily transport 20 years ago now, and although her top speed was only about 55mph she was very sweet and reliable................

Always remember that "factory" performance figures were often based upon pre-war models, bereft of later pillion and pannier kit and steel instead of alloy fittings.............and the 3HW is not all that light in weight either...........but in my own humble experience has an engine and gearbox which in good condition leaves a G3L far behind...........

On my arctic smock the hood is rolled back into a tight sausage shape and the two cords are then threaded through the cord loop used to hang the smock up with pulled tight and tied in a knot to keep the hood secure.(hope this makes sense). On some Royal Marine smocks they often fold the hood the opposite way inwards to create a thick collar but secure it the same way.

Officially, the cord (single cord, 2 ends) at the rear of the hood is NOT to secure the item when stowed, but is intended to draw the rear of the hood to fit closely around the neck/rear of the head when worn up !!!! same as the frontal cord (with "Fixlok" fastener) which is intended to secure the hood tightly around the head/face..........!!! these are from the official specs by the way.......

These were introduced from 1972 onward......the old green cap was worn with the new DPM clothing prior to this........

All initial manufacture up to the late 70s was in the older heavyweight fabric (satin-back cotton drill, or "sateen" as it is often termed)........and the earflap lined in khaki (brown) shirting flannel.......by the end of the 70s some production went over to the newer cotton-modal fabric and the flaps began to be lined with green-colour flannel........

Sizes ran from a 6 (size 48) through to a huge 7 & 7/8ths (size 63) and went up in eighths.......NSNs ran from 8415-99-132-1841 to 1856 (plus 1857 for "special" size)........the "8405 v 8415" NSN issue only affecting the 1968 pattern combat smock and trouser during the late-1970s............

"V & E Ltd" is thought to be "Vero and Everitt Ltd"..........

The presence of the old "A/78 - etc" contract number is also indicative of 70s manufacture.........:-D

Yep, early 90s at a guess, and all the above is correct..........interesting that the label carries the designation "Smock, Combat, Camouflage, Windproof"............late-70s and versions up to the early 80s are generally titled "Smock, Camouflage, Windproof" - no reference to "Combat", this being very much a "90s thing".......

There's no evidence that these "sand" coloured smocks, made roughly during 1942 only, were intended for desert use but it is possible that again they were intended for warmer mountain climates (Mediterranean theatre - a sand-coloured "battle jerkin" was produced around the same time), hence the lighter weight and coloured, windproof fabric (actually cotton-gabardine).......the "salt n pepper" type is thought to be simply a variation on the sand colour.......these items supplemented to earlier drab denim version and both were replaced by the cammo version from 1943 onward......

Seemingly, a fair stock of these were held in store through to the 90s, and I think it was a Hereford area...... recall an old article in a magazine ("Soldier" ?) showing an exercise/urban CQB, that showed the "enemy" forces clothed in these garments (smock and trouser)........evidence exists to show that SAS did use these in Gulf War 1 in the absence of any desert-coloured windproof alternative, and that the older tape cords were replaced by some with more modern alternatives.........:-D

A very nice example, and early date (Oct 41).........I recently sold one of these, just as nice, and a huge size too.......

 

These were the very first pattern of this type of smock, made from 41 - 42-ish in drab denim with matching trousers, and intended for mountain troops to wear in "cold, snow-less conditions".......the labeling can be a bit vague or ambiguous though, and you can find 'em labelled as shown, or "Smock, Snow", "Smocks, Drab", "Blouses", "Smock", etc........

 

The lightweight sand version replaced these from 42 onward, although the labeling remained similarly vague, and the cammo and heavyweight white colour snow oversmock both introduced from around 43 onward......[/quote

 

Great info thanks Steve . I would guess the denim material was not so windproof and would have stayed wet a lot

longer .The labeling as you say Steve is confusing ,I think it is because we now assume the snow wording must mean camouflage ,but then they were thinking of the enviorment it would be used in ,Was there any snow specific camo ie white garment/s at this early stage ?

Not certain about any pre-42-43 snow-cammo garments, but I would assume local improvisation was the order of the day ! Seems the later heavy snow cammo windproofs were supplemented by 44 by a simplified lightweight oversmock and trousers, lacking pockets, etc.......but the usage of the earlier garments right up to the end of the war suggests that large stocks were still available for issue........

A very nice example, and early date (Oct 41).........I recently sold one of these, just as nice, and a huge size too.......

These were the very first pattern of this type of smock, made from 41 - 42-ish in drab denim with matching trousers, and intended for mountain troops to wear in "cold, snow-less conditions".......the labeling can be a bit vague or ambiguous though, and you can find 'em labelled as shown, or "Smock, Snow", "Smocks, Drab", "Blouses", "Smock", etc........

The lightweight sand version replaced these from 42 onward, although the labeling remained similarly vague, and the cammo and heavyweight white colour snow oversmock both introduced from around 43 onward......

To me it looks a bot daft to put a shovel carrier in a carrier.

Agree, a bit like wearing braces and a belt.........:-D

Cock-ups on NSNs have been happening for years!:

 

http://hmvf.co.uk/forumvb/showthread.php?29436-1960-Pattern-Trousers-C-W-Son&highlight=1960+son+cable

Probably easier to have some bod in the factory sitting there with a biro in front of a huge stack of incorrectly-marked trousers than to remake a shed load of labels and then re-apply......!!!! :-D

Hi. Not sure why you say "oddly". Although I am not a cataloguer, my employer is a defence manufacturer, and we sometimes update the configuration of parts without having to do all the form-filling required to get a new NSN assigned.

 

Cataloguing is something of a "black art" but there seems to be a fair bit of latitude for an OEM to change a design as long as the "form, fit, and function" remain the same. Hence, swapping from green to DPM fabric wouldn't involve bending rules just to keep the same NSN -- and it would save a lot of folks in the supply chain unnecessary work.

It's "odd" for the era Pete, particularly pre-computer and in respect of clothing. Although some items did receive the same stores reference as another garment or item on an upgrade, it was pretty unusual. The DPM 1960 pattern smock that appeared during 1970 to replace the green was identical in cut save for the colouring but received a different NSN allocation along with the trousers. When the 1968 pattern gear was modified in the mid-late 70s by improvements to the fabric a new block of NSNs were issued........the only thing I can think of for the 63 pattern green and DPM sharing the same NSNs is that one simply replaced the other........although it's also worth noting that when first introduced around 1964 the green 63 pattern smock and trousers had the old WD stores coding, NSN's not really appearing on most kit until the late 1960s.........I guess the answer will remain unknown.......

And for comparison to my recent posting of the 1985 trial PLCE, this is a new set of the 1990 Pattern PLCE that it evolved into......though most component parts of this set are actually dated 1989........worth collecting this green stuff now as it is fast-disappearing and was only in production until 1991 when replaced by a near identical version in DPM cammo.....

Thought I would share some images of some trial British Army Webbing sets........shown is the often-termed "1972 Pattern" (officially, "PLCE 75 Pattern"), components of this particular (new) set actually dated 1971......the yoke is loosely based on the 58 pattern but lighter and with plastic fittings, and the remainder of the set is "beltless", the linked pouches dispensing with the need for such........most parts of this set can still be found although the ammo pouches invariably only turn up for one-side only !!! Hardest part to find is the rear pouch that incorporates a built-in machette sheath underneath and can be worn in a lower position if the rucksack is worn..........this set was extensively trialed but found to be not durable enough and could fall apart under load due mainly to the lightweight fasteners.......

Second set shown is the trial PLCE set of 1985, that evolved into the "PLCE 90 Pattern" though manufacture of this started at least a year earlier..........note the longer yoke at the rear that attaches to a nylon belt based upon the 58 pattern design and severtal of the pouches can be worn in a lower position if required........weakness of this set was the press-stud fasteners that jammed and/or tore away if force was used............

Classic pre-mid 90s issue.........manufacturers name on labels still featured..........interesting variation on ventilation eyelets !!!!

THAT,S GREAT INFO THANKS FOR POSTING ! The full zip info is intresting in that there seems to be as well as items made to this standard others that were brought up to this spec, ie as you say WW2 Windproofs and IMO Smocks Denison many size 7 ww2 smocks can be found with post war full length zips fitted these often still being near mint with a red ex over the label . behind the zip is a flap of cloth made from often three pieces of fabric joined some in camo and others in denim . Did the very pink smocks produced post ww2 have full zips as a standard ????

I've seen a post-war cammo windproof seemingly factory made with a full-length zipper and windflap beneath dated as early as 1954............I think the 63 pattern was an official attempt to regulate the full-zip pattern as similar to the 59 pattern Denison.........? I have the full WD manufacturing specs for the latter which still specify the half-zip into the 50s (plus a return to woolen cuffs !!)............this spec is dated 1952.......I guess apart from manufacturers, many units locally modified windproofs and Denisons with unit tailors to the full-zip pattern.......:-D

The 63 pattern first appeared during 1964.....it was a standardisation of the full-zip design (as per the 59 pattern Denison) and there is a possibility that the very first models were in the old wartime cammo..........

First common issues of the green 63 windproof suit started in 1964 and the last were made during 1970.........fabric was the usual 100% cotton-gabardine..........

During 1970-71 the DPM version was introduced alongside the same cammo for the rest of the Army.......it was intended to replace the green version......the DPM version lasted on issue up to 1975-76 when the "Smock, Windproof, Camouflage" replaced it.........the DPM 63 pattern suit was made in the heavier cotton combat smock fabric rather than the lightweight gabardine.....

So the green suit dates between 64 and 70, the DPM version between 70 and 75-76.........

Oddly, the same NSN's were used for the green and DPM versions........

Post mid-90s as no manufacturers name on the label (these were discontinued during the mid-90s as a result of changes in the MoD contract tendering system - read overseas non-UK tenders !!!)