wdbikemad

There was a thread sometime ago now discussing the issue and subsequent rapid demise of CS95 ripstop trousers to complement the ripstop smock. Does anyone have any photos they can post of a pair including the label?

 

I have a well-knackered pair Jason, but the label is hardly legible........although from what I can see they are a genuine pair of issue trousers.........

Unfortunately, the "22c" list doesn't give dates, although everything is listed in sequential order......the very early 22C numbers dating back to pre-WW2.........I would guess mid-late 1950s for the MK1 suit, the grey colour (which did vary in shade) lasting up to 1969 for aircrew clothing.........the cut of the garment, particularly the top, is very similar to the heavy aircrew parka that was introduced during the 50s...........I think these garments were introduced specifically for the cold-war era when RAF units were likely to be deployed to the northern extremes of NATOs flanks.....this being in the 50s........

Nice items Jason !!! I am estimating that these are mid-late 50s..........?? I have a list somewhere with the full aircrew "22C" items..........

Interesting that these Air-Ministry (RAF) contract suits, dated 1953, were made to the original 1951 specification for the "Combat Suit", principally manufactured and lined throughout in olive-drab gabardine..............the Army (WD) version was altered in production during mid-1952 to satin-backed 100% cotton-drill ("Cotton-sateen") with the smock retaining the earlier lining in gabardine but the trousers seeing this deleted, no doubt due to the introduction of the heavy winter "Liner, Trousers" that could be added or removed as necessary according to climate.............lining did not appear again in the combat trousers until the 60 pattern appeared during 1961...........and the smock saw the lining reduced to waist level on account of this.........

 

Interesting that the smock has a permanently-attached hood...........and that the AM nomenclature describes the items as a "Suit, Protective" rather than a "Smock (and Trousers), Combat".............note the AM-specified contract numbers on the labels.........

Excellent Steve - thanks for the info. That would explain why I have not seen any further examples of Manclark manufacture post 61....it would also explain the strange lettering at the beginning of the contract no....

 

"NX" is an odd coding Jason, and may possibly be naval, but I suspect RAF (Naval kit generally has a "Vocabulary" number or reference)............contract numbers did begin to be displayed on WD (Army) demanded kit prior to the NSN coding...(my 66 dated size 8 smock has such) but these are generally the more common "A/78" variety..........certainly early 60s, if the 1962 manufacturing spec's are accurate, contract details only appeared on RAF (Air Ministry) demanded 60 pattern clothing at the time...........

The only 50's pattern trousers that were lined Jason, were the early ones made in gabardine and lined in the same......when sateen was introduced during mid-52, the lining disappeared..........

 

Your Size 6 1961-dated 60 pattern strides made by "Manclark" are Air-Ministry (or very possibly Naval) issue.......according to my 1962 dated manufacturing specs for the combat suit, Smocks and Trousers destined for the Air Ministry (RAF/ROC) were to have the contract number added to the label, which yours have !..... Army issues had no contract number displayed until much later, generally after NATO stock numbers were added to the label in the late-60s.......

Someone else has commented that they thought it could well be a Canadian made tunic.

 

It may indeed be a Canadian example.....the clue here may be the aforementioned lining (unusual in a RAF O/R's jacket at the time) and the single-pointed breast-pocket flaps.......the RAF issue, including BD, generally always had "3 pointed" breast pocket flaps..............IF Canadian, it would have probably originally had "RCAF" buttons fitted from new (same as RAF but RCAF lettering around the lower edge), subsequently changed for the standard RAF pattern..........

Nice jacket Harry ! I note it is lined.....later (post-41 issues) lost all lining, retaining just the odd area of reinforcement inside in a similar fashion to the khaki serge Army SD jacket........

The Solway had straight pockets but was made of the same weight of cotton. Are there a serious of small poppers down each side of the zip? I've still got one of the hairy liners. Oh yes reason for stopping isue: To expensive!

 

There are indeed a series of small poppers running either side of the main zip Tony, to attach the liner......there's also a tab at the neck with a press-fastener to secure the liner there......

The old Solway jacket! No longer made apparently as they would be to expensive!

 

Hasn't got "Solway" on it Tony, only "International Suit".........it's a great item though........one inside pocket and 4 outer pockets, the one on the right-breast actually having a zip beneath the flap.......not visible is the belt or the tan fleece waistcoat-style lining held in by press-fasteners.......it is very heavy-duty cotton and quite stiff.....

Our W/NG was rebuilt (to "Class 1") in September 1945 by "B 189"...........and the Norton the same year by "501 Cmd Wkshps IEME", who I later found out were "501 Command Workshops, Indian Electrical and Mechanical Engineers" located at Chaklala near the old North-West Frontier in India..........there was a plate on the toolbox, plus the piston in the engine was marked "501 IEME" on the crown and the entire thing actually cast by them in their workshops, a dead copy of the standard Norton item and also with the workshop details beautifully cast within the piston body...........

My 6 year old Daughter loves that film. Great fun on a rainy cold sunday with a fire going :-D

 

Respect Paul !!! Our 13 year old likes nothing less......:-D

Well it never occurred to me to watch such a film, but I would have, just to see the W/NG!!

Steve, did you at some time have a list (or part of) for the workshops, as stamped on various brass plates?

 

Ron

 

All I know Ron, is that "Command" workshops were UK-based and "Base" workshops overseas (eg - "4" base workshop was in Cairo !!!)......but as for the auxiliary "B" vehicle workshops that ran during and post-WW2, the REME Museum at Arborfield (Berks, South-West of Reading) has the most complete (and largely incomplete !!!) list of these.........you need to speak with my old mate Brian Baxter for further info...........:-D

 

Hope all's well with you and yours Ron....Vidya and me are looking forward to catching up with your good self this year....!!!! Vee promises to be saucier than ever at Goodwood in September........:cool2:

Probably already known, but just watching "Nanny McPhee and the Big Bang".....she's riding a rather nice Ariel W/NG with sidecar !!!!! A tad slow in real life methinks.........:-D

Anyone remember these...? When Barbour actually issued waxed-cotton motorcycle clothing to the Army............I found this near-new large size (46") jacket and trousers in a dark-brown waxed cotton (that stinks !!!) only 3 years ago now for a very reasonable £20................seem to remember them being worn on Armstrong MT500s with ski-type goggles and Cromwell "jet-style" green open-face helmets (also favoured by "Eager Beaver" drivers !!)..............I have tested this on both our 1940 Norton and 1942 Ariel and it IS warm, wind and weather-resistant.............!! :-D

1966 dated OD 1960 pattern smock......a useful Size 8 and hardly-worn.....signs of WO insignia removed from lower sleeves and James Smith produced........but most interestingly, is the small paper label still stapled to one of the inner breast pockets......stating "QM Store....8 Inf Bde".....my limited research says that this Brigade were largely NI-based................a nice item with potential history........:-D

"Tailored" shirts, sewn-in creases in the lightweights, and similar tailored Denisons and 68 pattern combat smocks..........all the rage in the late-70s/early 80s............

 

Who remembers the common style of wearing the DPM smock "bloused" (lower drawcord tightened)...?? Fashionable in the late 70s/early 80s, but it had almost gone post-85..........

Thanks Boots,not to everybodys cup of tea but I like it.

 

Some people only collect nos,unissued items etc -thats not the luxury I have Im afraid:cry::cry::cry:

 

Zip replaced,sleeves lengthened,the smock has been well abused,just wish I knew a little about its history.

 

Anybody please know when the subdued wings were first issued?

 

A nice early Para Smock sold for £63 on Ebay earlier today.

 

 

I like new kit, tho mainly for the book, but I have a fair few well-used items tucked away for the same reasons.......a bit of history and I just like 'em that way !!!! Tell's a story.........from memory, many para troops favoured well-worn smocks for the "ally" look.......nothing at all wrong with that.......

 

Subdued insignia began to appear for NI around the late-70s, but it was either "home done" or privately acquired......it was much the same up to the late-1980s............after that, I think the issue situation changed.......tho not universally.....

Ha, thats good to know I have two size 5 olive 60 patt smocks and a pair of size 2 trousers,all the later pattern ie oval arm patches etc.I am very fond of these,one smock is virtually new £15.00 at Beltring,the other and the trousers ,are slightly faded,but can,t complain for £3.50 at a local summer boot fare about three years ago.Shan,t be parting with these.As an aside I can remember back in the seventies the 60 pattern olive smocks were ten a penny , I had one I wore to destruction on my motorcycle.

 

Jason has a point, the DPM 60 patterns aren't quite at the premium that decent, and large-size green versions go for...........

 

Bargains are still to be had.......at the same show only a couple of years ago now I got a new, very early size 3 DPM "SAS" windproof smock for a fiver..............and at the same time my new green '63 patt SAS windproof trousers very cheap......

 

Around 1980-82 there were loads of new green 60 pattern smocks in surplus shops, most were size 7s and 9s, and a mixture of pre and post 64 patterns (sleeve design).......they were around £10 - 12 each if I recall correctly.....cheap now, but equivalent to a good night out back then or a tank of petrol !!!!! :-D A surplus wholesaler had obtained a huge amount from whom various stores obtained their stock...........I worked in one such shop part-time on a Saturday and can recall opening bales of the bloody things...............there were also bales of new WW2 battledress blouses in sizes 13, 15 and 16......a mixture of 37 and 40 patterns......a fiver each !!!!! Plus serge "WW1 style" SD jackets at the same price......50 to the bale..........those WERE the days !!!!!!

Wish somebody would do one on Denison Smocks as well.

 

THAT is in my book Harry !!!! All info taken from official sources, and it will upset a few "experts"......(I'm not one, just narrating the official sources......:-D)

Just kidding Steve!

 

But I am amazed at some of the books on specialist subjects....this one in my post above takes the prize though!:wow:

 

A VERY specialised subject no doubt......I bet sales were impressive....!!!!:-D

Bear with me Jason !!!!!!!:-D

Try getting a green one nowadays Tony !!! The only one I've ever found, and not in the World's best condition.......they seem to deteriorate with age, even if new, although in fairness are around 40 years old now....

 

Extremely bright yellow 1968 pattern DPM hood......you can view the contrast in my earlier multi-hood post image...............Size 2 (large), new, made by Remploy................I have a smock somewhere in this peculiar DPM colour variation...........

Great photos Steve and some intersting new posts!

 

What size in this Canuck para smock?

 

I can't remember Jason........although it is a "long"..............I must admit that I didn't pay a great deal of attention to it today.........:-(