Old Bill

We couldn't do this without the kindness of our friends and this is amazing. Thank you, Barry, for speeding us on our way!

I ordered the tubes and gills last week and they should turn up within a month. Then we will have the fun of threading them on before sending them and the plates off for soldering. Once we have the radiator, the lorry will have a face. Progress is being made!

Steve

Anything like this? 'Timken Detroit Axle Co'. A proprietary part manufacturer used on lots of American lorries. What is the story of yours?

Cheers!

Steve

We were fortunate to have an original bonnet for the Dennis subsidy lorry but it was a bit battered with some broken hinges. To get it apart, I simply knocked the hinge pin through as it is a piece of brass tube pushed in. It is trapped when the bonnet is in place. I did mess the end up though and had to make an extension before it was put back! I must admit that I haven't seen this arrangement before. You learn something new every day!

Steve

Mike in New Zealand has been very generous in sending castings for some parts I did not have. Adrian allowed me to visit him and take numerous measurements I needed.

Friends around the world helping out. Isn't this a wonderful hobby!

Steve

I may have answered my own question. The J type I was looking at was the Hampshire Museum one. I suspect it may be sporting civilian lamp brackets fitted when it returned after the war ?

The Hampshire Museum lorry has a lot of new metal in the chassis as it was totally rotten when removed from the scrap yard. I am pretty sure that the side rails were fabricated from scratch and welded along the bend lines. If there were no brackets with it, Ron may well have fabricated brackets to carry the lamps rather than replicate the originals.

Steve

Yes, the radiator pattern was made by building up a very poorly original and then making a core box to suit. the letters are not as crisp as I would like but will do the job. It was too good an opportunity to miss at the time.

I must get on the board shortly and draw up the whole lot so we can see what we want and decide which way to go. I want to get the brass ordered too.

Steve

Many thanks for that. They made the wings for both the Dennis and the Thornycroft. (The Thorny wings have been in the loft for twenty years!). They were nice to deal with.

The other contact I have is http://www.vintagecarradiatorcompany.co.uk/ and they come recommended as well. I must have a chat and see what each can offer us.

I would like us to make as many bits ourselves as we can both for personal satisfaction and to keep the costs under control. This radiator is going to be one of the last three big lumps of expenditure on the project. It must be right though. It is the face of the lorry!

Steve

I have just checked my notes regarding radiator cores for Thorny J types. I came up with a figure of 22000 when looking at the Portsmouth bus many years ago. However, we have had a much closer look at the Carlton Colville lorry and have found that there are 125 tubes which are 23" long between tube plates. The lorry has gills at 5 per inch giving a total of 14375 altogether which will save a few quid. The bus gills are at 8 per inch giving 23000 or thereabouts!

I must talk to a radiator manufacturer shortly and see what they can do for us. Threading the gills ourselves may be a trifle tedious but could save some money. We would then take the tubes back for dipping and soldering into the tube plates. Must get on the drawing board so we can get the brass ordered.

Steve

A memorable Christmas indeed.

Proper job!

Steve :bow:

And I thought our gearbox was poorly! At least we had something to bolt to!

When we bolted, it took a lot of care to miss the gears with the internal bolt heads. We also took the opportunity to drill the bolts and split pin the nuts as these as loose items in the box would not be good news.

How do you do it Ben? No one would believe that you actually go to work!

Steve

You can talk! They will be calling you 'Dynamo Hawkins' very shortly!

Steve

Hi David.

Yes, putting the bolt in from the top would probably give us enough clearance. However, the engine mount is a piece of angle and the position of the hole is such that there is insufficient room to turn the hex underneath. I think that just dressing a little from the corner of the nut will do the trick. Failing that, packing the box up would also sort it.

Just for interest, here is a picture of the Carlton Colville engine mount.

Cheers!

Steve

Whilst playing with this axle, we realised that we had not removed the wheel thrust washers. On inspection, we realised that they were much thicker than those already on the chassis so we may well have a solution to our end-float issue.

We fitted the starting handle and I gave the engine a good swing. Very satisfying!

The handle appears to protrude forwards a very long way. This is odd as the shaft is an original Thornycroft component. At least it reduces the chances of my smashing my teeth on the radiator protector bar!

Next was the sump level tap,

Followed by the priming cocks.

Father dug out the best original fan.

After a clean-up, this was fitted too. The engine is beginning to look rather pretty!

The gear change shaft support was installed.

Then I started looking at the steering box.

I dropped it in but it fouls an engine mounting bolt and the holes don't line up!

I think we should get away with dressing a corner from the nut but that is a job for another day.

That is the end of our progress for this Christmas. I am back to finishing my motor house for the Dennis. Once that is done, I can make some more patterns for the Thorny. Must keep the momentum up. Only two years and five months left to go and it is going to be tight!

Happy New Year everyone!

Steve

Back to it for a final stint before the return to reality!

I found an odd box this morning within which were the missing plates. Father wasted no time in attaching them!

I then fitted the front wheel greasers,

the gearbox breather, rescued from a chassis on a farm at Great Missenden twenty years ago,

and then re-fitted the engine oil pipes which had been removed for safety during the lift.

Thoughts turned to the rear axle and differential so kindly given to us by Mike in New Zealand. The differential is the last major component needed in the chassis.

We pulled it out and then set about lifting the differential from the casing. As you can see, it is in wonderful condition. Even the splines look like new.

Thanks Chaps. I shall invest in some bronze and tighten it up a bit. It does feel a bit generous at the moment!

Today we wanted to get the engine properly fixed down. Dad did not cut the bolt holes in the engine mounting angles when he made them as he felt it would be easier to mark them out from the crank case itself. He is right in this but I really didn't fancy lifting the engine again. Still, I gritted my teeth and off we went. First job was to get the engine into line with the gearbox. To facilitate this, I made a pointer from steel strip to bolt to the gearbox input spider. This worked well and it was quite easy by adjusting the engine position with a jemmy to bring it all into line.

Then we had to lift the engine and remove the first mounting angle. All went well but I hate working under suspended loads. You only get one chance to get it right!

We put the holes in using the mill. As usual in this game, the mill was stretched to capacity, firstly by height in drilling a 1/2" hole and then in torque turning a 3/4" end mill to finish.

This was done for both sides and then, much to our relief, the engine was lowered back down.

We had four bolts in stock which were trimmed to length and had split pin holes drilled before fitting and tightening up. They went through all of the holes without adjustment!

The engine is now installed!

Gearbox to be finally fitted tomorrow along with some other bits and pieces which can now go on. One thing is bugging us though. Some time ago, Father repaired the rear wheel tyre size plates and I made up some brass screws to secure them and these can now be fitted. However, we cannot find them! Dad has been searching all day and it is causing serious annoyance!

More tomorrow.

Steve

Thanks Chaps. It is a relief to have the bits together as it is looking like a vehicle at last!

No progress today as we have had guests. However, I want to get the engine bolted down before returning home so that will be tomorrow's project.

One thing has been concerning me and that is the appropriate end-float in the wheel bearings and I should like to ask for some advice please. These bearings are 3 1/2" bore, fully floating, plain bronze bushes with bronze thrust washers at the ends. The right hand rear wheel has a little less than 1/16" float which feels about right. However, the LH wheel has something like 1/8" float and it feels a bit much. Can anyone offer any guidance as to how much there should be? I have not found anything in the manuals and the American lorries all have rolling bearings so they are quite different. I should appreciate your views!

Steve

Compressing the rather unusual leaf type clutch springs was a challenge but we did this with a pair of sash clamps.

Then we took the engine out into the sun for a photo call. It really does look pretty but I was still very concerned about smashing it up by dropping it. I have not been looking forward to this exercise at all!

I made up a new lifting strop from 22mm polypropylene rope just to be certain and away we went.

We couldn't push the chassis back far enough to give the engine a straight lift so Big Mark hung onto the water pump to keep it all swung out of the way.

Then with the hook as high as it could go, we rolled the chassis out underneath it.

The moment of truth!

It's down! Phew!

Much relief all round.

Next task is to position the engine correctly in front of the gearbox and mark out the bolt holes. Then we will have to lift it again, remove the engine mounts and bore them through. A task for Thursday. Christmas guests tomorrow!

Steve

Back to it! We started the day by lowering the chassis to the ground and then set up the crane ready to lift the gearbox.

This was simply slung and went into the chassis without a hitch.

Even the bolts lined up!

Now there is this big empty space which needs an engine.

It had originally been planned that we would fit the clutch once the engine had been installed. However, I had a re-think and realised that there wouldn't be room to fit it in! I therefore had to finish it off and fit it properly. First task was to clean off the light surface rust followed by fitting of the nice new bearings which have been beside my bed for a year. Goodness knows why they were there!

I have found the Carlton Colville brake drum cover photo.

As you can see, it is not arranged as you might reasonably expect!

Steve

Good progress, disappointing for you about the dust cover. You don't mention what you did about the oil seal that was

fouling, did you leave it out and will fix later (don't forget) or solve the problem at the time?

 

Regards

Doug

Hi Doug.

In the end, we left both felts off. They were not fitted when we took it all to bits so I don't think the omission is serious. The worst that can happen is that the grease can work its way out but this will be a more cosmetic than functional fault. The tin covers are dished in at the centre to catch any lubricant and deflect it away from the linings.

In the Carlton Colville lorry, the covers align with the corners of the brake drums, neither going inside or overlapping. Until I had to make them, I had in mind that the flanges went the other way over the outside of the drums but that is not how they are on this vehicle or in the parts book. A slightly odd arrangement, I think.

Steve

Yes, the brake levers are a bit wasted. We think they will be OK but if not, we will have to do something about them. The proof of the pudding will be when we fit the brake handle!

Today's project was to fit the rear wheels. As always, they were more difficult than expected although we have succeeded. Step one was to get the engine crane out and lift the first wheel.

Then the Heavy Gang came in to assist in wangling it on to the bearing sleeve.

Rather unfortunately, the brake drum fouled my nice new dust covers so off came the wheel again.

After much pondering, we decided to try to bend the edge of the cover forwards using a rubber mallet with a block of wood behind.

The wheel was re-fitted but would not go right home.

We decided that the oil seal felt was fouling so it was removed and the wheel fitted again, this time successfully although the dust cover still requires some further adjustment.

The securing collar and nut was then fitted and we had one wheel mounted.

The second wheel was tricky to fit as there was no access for the engine crane. Big Mark had thoughtfully brought along a small wooden trolley on castors which could be used to feed the wheel in sideways. All I had to do was operate the jack under the chassis to get the height just right.

This time, however, the brake drum would not go cleanly over the re-lined shoes.

After much further head scratching, one end of the shoe was bored slightly deeper and the other end was dressed back with a file.

A couple of rounds of this treatment and success was achieved. Even the dust cover was clear on this side so the securing nut and collar were fitted and we now have a wheel at each corner.

Gearbox and engine tomorrow!

Steve

Back to it! The axle is now safely bolted in and the first task was to tighten the nuts down and fit the split pins.

Then we spent a surprising amount of time fitting keys to the ends of the brake actuatorshafts. Once they had been made, the shafts could be fitted.

And a pinch bolt to secure them.

Next came the brake shoes which Father had previously re-lined and painted. We selected the best surviving return springs, hooked the shoes together and then fitted them. This was most definitely a two-man job as the springs made the shoes quite a handful!

We have acquired a number of wheel bearings from the various chassis we have dismantled and were fortunate to be able to find two good enough for further use.

Father had previously identified the need for felt oil seals on the back of the wheels so he had obtained these ready for now. They were simply slotted into their grooves on the backs of the wheels.

Finally, suitable thrust washers were chosen to limit the end float to 0.060" - 0.125".

Now we are ready to fit the wheels tomorrow!

Steve

Why leather washers in the hub-caps? I am sure they weren't mentioned in the subsidy lorry books and we haven't fitted any. What do they do?

Steve

PS Good progress!

Using the jack to slowly lower the chassis and springs onto the spring seats on the axle.

Taking care to make sure that the centre bolt is properly aligned.

Some temporary bolts were fitted to hold it steady.

The bolts were then cross-drilled and cut to length before fitting. Getting hold of such bolts proved quite a problem for us. In the end, Father purchased 3/4" UNC bolts in the USA and had them sent to Tim's Father-in-law for Tim to pick up when he next visited. I am sure that the airport security men love to see Tim coming!

The other side took some serious wangling to get the bolts through the holes be we succeeded eventually and the springs are now secure until tomorrow when we will tighten the nuts right up and pin them.

Brakes tomorrow!

Steve.

I knew it would come to life just as soon as I posted something!

Anyway, todays task was to attach the brake drum covers. This started by clearing all the stuff from around the chassis and then pulling out the axle on its trolley. The engine crane was then used to lift it off before rolling it over.

It was then blocked up on timbers and Tim fitted the dust cover securing it with the brake anchor pin and then two screws.

I then drilled a cross hole through the end of the pin for a split pin.

Back on the trolley and carefully rolled beneath the chassis.

Careful use of a bent copper pipe to blow the muck out of the spring alignment hole. The head of the spring centre bolt goes in here and locates the spring, preventing the axle from working along in service.

Then the axle was positioned with the pin directly over the hole in the spring seat.