BenHawkins

It would be great to see some photos if possible.

Things have slowed down on the Dennis front. You may have noticed the garage was a bit small for a project of this scale so I am currently building a bigger house to accomodate us! Ben

The super wide wheels you mention were to allow it to drive off road. I have extracted this caption from Motor Traction (20/11/1909): "the Dennis lorry specially built for the Nile Valley Gold Mining Co.... The Toward pressed steel road wheels, ample ground clearance and the manner in which all the mechanism is encased for protection from dust are noticible features". It could carry a two ton load on sand and was also used to transport passengers the seventy miles between the mine and river. Wooden blocks could be fitted to the wheels to aid traction. Ben

The "cardboard cutout" is actually scaled from picture 1. I purchased the high resolution jpg and pasted it into CAD to draw around it. So the cardboard cutout is correct for one particular model of radiator I just don't know if that was the one originally fitted. Ben

Thanks for the suggestions, I have the Pat Kennet book but will have to find a copy of the Klapper book. The Dennis archives are very good but I believe the radiator was bought in from the Midland Radiator Company so there are no drawings. From the holes in the chassis I know it was the shackle mounted version and this ties in with the various magazine articles of the time. The radiator had horizontal tubes and a cast aluminium shell with brass tube plates. My template is scaled from a high resolution photo of the two ton model but I am not certain the radiator for the three ton was the same size. I have photos of the earlier Dennis vans delivered to Carter Paterson and these have brass radiators. I also have photos of later vans and these have aluminium radiators with vertical tubes.

This evening we put the final wheel on the chassis. It is five years since we first went to see the chassis and we now have it back as we found it! All the wood on the nearside wheel is new. It was necessary to replace the king pins and front wheel bearings. We still have to fit the track rod and make the covers for the top of the king pins. The cardboard cutout of the radiator is to help me get the size right. It is scaled from a photo but I could really do with a photo of one of these vans delivered to Carter Paterson in late 1908 so I can get it right.

The body looks similar to a horse drawn delivery van. I think these were constructed in this way for rigitity. Is this a horse drawn van fitted to the motor chassis?

Dan, My Dennis is earlier than the subsidy model. It has a number of BSP threads in places you would not expect (for example the ends of the half shafts). I think BSF was introduced in 1908 so became fairly common in machines designed after this date. Ben

An image from a Dennis catalogue. This shows a vary similar pumping set but with the 60hp engine

The Dennis is coming along slowly. Yesterday we fitted the wheels to the back axle. I still have to finish making a new front wheel bearing and press the kingpins in before we can put the front wheels on. Then around five years after finding the truck it should be back together as I found it!

I had a worm shaft made by Turner Gears of Wolverhampton; it cost GBP750. I considered doing most of the machining myself and just leaving the hobbing to the gear cutters but there was not much of a cost saving. Some of my friends helped were very generous and helped towards the cost for my 30th Birthday! The worm wheel I have used was from a slightly different back axle (but the same hub design and centre distance) so I had to mix the worm thread from one design with the bearing drive mechanism and bearing assembly from another. I had to take dimensions from the axle case to verify the centre distance and then worked the thread data back from there. There is of mistakes in this image (I must upload the proper one). Here is the worm shaft as we are about to put the casings together. Let me know if I can be of any help! Ben

I need to make my 1908 model radiator first! Ben

Luckily I don't keep track of the hours! I really don't know how long it took but at least 20 hours and I was in trouble with Sarah over the dust in the kitchen. Ben

I have just made the pattern and core box for the Dennis subsidy engine cylinder block top covers. The castings have worked out well. This is my first core box so I am pleased with the results. I know you had problems with yours so you are welcome to the two castings or to borrow the patterns. Ben

Tim Yes the wheelwright decided the rear wheel was just too heavy and he would probably steer clear of them in future. My scales go up to 130Kg and it is certainly heavier than that. I think once they have the two solid tyres on (around 40Kg each) they will weigh around 250Kg. The three cylinder blocks, three connecting rods a two pistons were all from the same stand. The seller purchased them from a scrap yard when the owner passed away. The family were clearing the site and only one of the sons was keen to see some of it saved. He had one day to collect what he could in a van. There were only three blocks and nothing else that seemed to be from the engine in the scrap yard but they were rescued because they were obviously very early. White and Poppe started making this engine in 1908 and made the last one in 1914 although obviously some of the vehicles Dennis fitted them to were not sold until 1915. Ben

I had almost given up hope that a suitable engine would turn up for my truck. However when I was at Beaulieu Autojumble last weekend I managed to purchase three White and Poppe cylinder blocks as were originally fitted. They are 127mm bore x 130mm stroke rather than the 110mm bore version my truck should have. As far as I can work out this engine was only supplied to Dennis and the residual black paint suggests the engine was from a lorry and not a fire engine. This size of engine was fitted to the 5 ton model. Anyway I decided to buy them in case nothing else turns up. Not enough to build an engine but perhaps more will turn up over time. The two rotten wheels rebuilt with all new wood: I still need to press the tyres on but things are progressing quite well overall. With a little bit of luck I should have the wheels and axles on by the end of the year. Ben

Thanks for the update, it is nice to see it is coming along. Ben

It has been a while since I posted anything about the van so here is a photo of the new king pins I made. I mostly machined them on my very old myford lathe, using an air drill and 1/8 ball nose cutter to put in the spiral oil groove. They are made from EN24T and I finished them off on a Jones and Shipman cylindrical grinder then had them nitride hardened. I had some profiles laser cut for the radius rods. These fit to the front of the rear axle and counteract the driving torque. I then turned some spaces and bent the reinforcing ribs out of 3/8 and 1/4 steel rods. Then after a few hours work with the arc welder and angle grinder I think the first one looks quite respectable. There are still plenty of jobs to be getting on with, but I hope to have the wheens and axles on by the end of the year.

I think the two spark plugs may just be a way of plugging the second set of valve caps but I will ask the question. The early manufacturers of fire engines in the UK were Dennis (using White and Poppe engines), Merryweather (using Aster engines), Shand-Mason (on a Maudslay chassi) and Leyland, Halley and Commer (using their own engines). I believe the owner stripped the engine fairly thoroughly so would have spotted any marking on the crankcase. Seperate cylinders were fairly common in early vehicles. They allowed different size engines to be built using the same cylinder blocks, were easier to manufacture and a single block could be replaced. In my Motor Traction listing of 1908 around half the engines have seperate cylinder blocks but nothing matches up with this bore and stroke. The 1909 list shows may of the engines to have dual ignition but again nothing with the correct bore and stroke. When looking through car data only the New Engine Company, Rochet-Schneider and looked of similar dimensions to this engine.

I have looked through my list of cars being sold in 1914 and very few approach these dimensions and none are a close match. If may of course be earlier than that. I think the stroke is close to 4.75", but has not been measured properly. The carburetor is a Zenith. The access panels on the crankcase were relatively common. The White and Poppe subsidy model certainly has them. It may have had a stationary or marine use. Ben

Thanks Richard, I was thinking it was probably from a lorry of around two ton payload, however I will have a look through my "the Motor supplement 1914" and see if anything looks promising.

I have had a response from the owner. All the threads on the engine are Whitworth. The priming cups came with the engine and I recognise these as manufactured by Rotherhams of Coventry so everything points towards the engine being of UK origin. Some other veteran lorry engines starting with A are: Ailsa-Craig Alldays and Onions I have Armstrong-Whitworth as making lorries but I don't know if they fitted their own engine. Agains Arrol-Johnston made a 2 ton chassis but I don't know who made the engine. There were a suprising number of engines available up to and including WWI

Thanks for the comments so far. I have asked the owner for some more information. In the mean time I thought I would start an A-Z of veteran truck engines. A is for Aster Although their engine had simlar cylinder blocks and timing cases the crankcase looks very different. I can't think of any past W!

I was sent these photos of a veteran engine from Australia. It was thought it was a White and Poppe as I require for my 1908 Dennis but I am pretty certain it is not. I have looked through the period literature I have and I can not work out the manufacturer. It is of T head construction typical of WWI period engines with four separate cylinder blocks. The bore is 4.5" and the stroke 4.75" Each big end has four retaining bolts. The cams have roller followers. Obviously it has no manufacurer or serial number stampings. Any suggestions?

I picked up TWO when I came down to Honiton steam rally. As I do not expect to be starting my engine in the near future you can borrow one and see how you get on! Ben