fv1609

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When you buy a vehicle that was last used by the forces, you know it is maybe broken or has stood still for some time or both. When you buy a vehicle that has been in civilian hands it may run ok but sadly there is a real chance it will not have had the proper maintenance it deserves. I know if someone owns a vehicle they can do what they like with it in terms of embellishments, gadgets, paint schemes etc to suit their fancy. Most of these can be corrected by a new owner if they so desire, but lack of proper maintenance can haunt subsequent owners for years to come. I bought a pig 10 years ago that had 3 previous owners who I can only assume knew or cared little about maintaining their vehicle. There are up to 9 lubrication points in the vicinity of each wheel station, but little effort seemed to have been applied to attending to this. I was plagued by nasty steering wheel wobble. I replaced all the steering rod ends which only improved things slightly. Then I realised there seemed to be little effort applied to the lubrication of the shock absorber bushes. You can see why if you look at the freeplay in the bush! To the purchaser of my pig don't worry you have had new shockers fitted & the steering is steady! If anyone wants to try re-bushing these 4 shockers then you are welcome to just have them. 2 are worn as in picture, 2 are only half as bad. Any takers? Otherwise they are for the skip!

Ah well perhaps when people have sorted out the skin problems they might like a new hairdo:-D

Yes but it wasn't specifically wartime. I had a few I was going to post, here is one from 1947.

It wasn't a case of them reclaiming it, although that was a worry in the early days particularly when the 10-year contract was unilaterally withdrawn & a renew every year contract initiated. I think there may have been some loans where the vehicles were abused or just neglected & I can now understand the need to keep a good eye on their loans. It was me who brought it to a conclusion. My full compliance with the terms of the contract had built goodwill over the years & I am sure could have continued for many years to come. I was just looking through some old bills for it. A set of service kits for the servo was £143 & that was 15 years ago! I have since learnt about alternative ways of sourcing, but I was learning the hard way. Like having to buy a GS truck just to get the flywheel. Learning that it was fitted to the engine using torque settings from Rolls Royce quoted in in-lbs not ft-lbs = busted threads! Not wishing to go on about it too much but its like a long-term relationship that has broken up. Hornet & I were closely identified & we had been through good & difficult times, but now separate existences. Yes I could visit it I suppose but, do you visit an "ex" who is taken on a different life? But the indications I got yesterday were very much that here is a drivable vehicle & it would be good to make use of with museum events, which is great. Now I will have to erase the levels of speil that I would give viewers of the vehicle based on the questioner's actual interest & military IQ.

Joris, I don't know as I don't take those magazines. But an awful lot drivel gets written about Shorlands which carries across to drivelpedia. Someone is constructing a new Shorland site for me & that will appear over the coming months I hope as time permits.

Thanks for comments everyone. It's not that I need another project; I have enough things going on here. The Tank Museum were I think a little surprised I wanted to return it as the arrangement had worked well for both parties. There comes a time when one has to rationalise. I didn't want to be the proud owner of many decomposing vehicles that I had neglected but never could attend to properly. Retirement has actually meant a reduction in time on my hobby, with increase in agricultural & house maintenance! Taken with the possibility of a move, cost of vehicle transport if that happens & the general down turn in the economy. I thought I should have a clear out. An unused vehicle soon ends up as place to store bits then that overflows to the floor, and then there is no room to move around at all. Productivity falls as you can't find anything, then you break things as you stand on then, knock over trays of bolts into oil patches on the floor that fuses into angle grinder dust & mud, then everything grinds to a halt to perform even simple maintenance tasks. So last year the Shorland prototype went, now the Hornet & soon the other Pig. That leaves me one Pig up together, but still more I want to do to it to bring up to spec, the Wolf due for a spruce up, the oldest Shorland in the world not been driven for 12 years, that needs restoring. Not to mention the Wolf trailer that needs welding up & the poor old Cipher trailer needs a general bodylift. So I won’t be stuck for stuff to do & then the distraction of the military document collection which is about 4,000 titles.

If you have just come to the thread or 'refresh' you will note that my user name is no longer fv1620 it is now fv1609 which is the main vehicle now. It is the oldest surviving pig in the world. At present it is bit sad to use fv1620 as that is in the past & have to move on. I have deleted FV1620 from the vehicle list & will shortly be removing FV1612 when that one goes shortly!

Thanks everyone for your comments. When I took it on originally it was for a 10-year loan. Then after a short while it became renewed annually which rather worried me, but that was the Museum covering themselves against some loans where the borrower had not kept faith. My wife thought I was daft to take it on, but nothing is forever. When we die we have to hand our vehicles over anyway. The joke was when the loan was first mooted it was as a result of indicating that to my mind the the most interesting vehicle in the Museum was so poorly displayed. I have to confess despite being a Friend of BTM I have no interest in tanks, only British wheeled armour. I was amazed that the loan offer was so readily forthcoming & when the contract had been drawn up I went to view it to see what I needed to drive it home. What I didn't realise was what I had agreed to borrow was not the display Hornet but the non-runner tucked away & left outside. It had spent some time at Beverley & I'm pretty sure it was the one at the Cavern museum. Remember that place? Nice sinister atmosphere underground but it was wet, wet, wet & everything got rust, rust, rust! Anyway to avoid loss of face & seize a unique opportunity to make this vehicle (I believe) into the only drivable one in the world, I took it on. It's cost money to restore & maintain it but even vehicles I have owned I never have made a profit when it is sold. So I'm no worse off. At its height I was told that it was in better condition & presentation than when it was in service. But the problem in recent years has been devoting enough time to maintaining to the standard I originally got it to. I was encouraged that it is being kept indoors & is likely to be used as a working display vehicle by the Museum. So I may see it again. When it was driven into the shed it impressed me what a strange but mean piece of kit it looked. I had never seen a Hornet being driven before as I was always in the driver's seat!

With a heavy heart after a 15-year loan of Hornet 05BK02, I drove it back today & returned it to the Tank Museum. When I took out the loan it was a non-runner with a burnt out clutch, cracked flywheel & no brakes. It looked like this: I have replaced the clutch, flywheel, servo, all brake pipes & hoses, alternator, generator panel, carburettor, starter motor, hydraulic ram, steering linkages, exhaust manifolds, silencer, exhaust pipe, IR headlight & their boxes etc. At its height it has been photographed with Gen Sir Mike Jackson & Gen Sir Tony Walker & regularly attended reunions of the Para Sqn RAC & attended the Great Dorset Steam Fair. Arrival today: and the final goodbye:

Adam. I always used to unhook the upper springs then lower the hatches then attach the centre spring to the bonnet to stop it bouncing up as you go along. Although there is an element of edge wiggle as you go along even with the centre spring engaged. The visors seemed to be largely redundant as the mesh always seemed to be used with the windscreens in place. Obviously the windscreens need to come out otherwise they are smashed by the No.17 Periscopes. Of the few pics I have seen the periscopes are not fitted suggesting the pig was used with windscreens fitted & mesh up most of the time.

Well you asked for them, here goes! Don't worry about measurements just make it to the vehicle. I know mine had this type of screen fitted as I could see where the hinges were welded to the wiper blocks. Also there is a hook on each visor & one in the middle of the engine bay central cover plate.

Sean, yes that would be good. When it was at Preston's half of it was painted a bluey grey, which I could never work out why. I've got a picture of one I took at a Duxford show over 20 years ago I'll try to dig that out. That book you mentioned when was that published? I've got Karl Martin's "Irish Army Armoured Cars" published in 1983. Not sure if that is the armoured car content of the bigger book?

The great thing about it is that the original screen was very homemade. It's just cobbled together with door hinges & old springs etc. I had to deliberately not make mine look too swish! I'll dig out the pics.

Not any more its in the National Museum of Ireland, Collins Barracks, Dublin http://www.museum.ie/en/exhibition/gallery/photo-gallery-soldiersandchiefs.aspx?image=9d6c2034-63e9-4d5a-b18a-867ee4e00767

Mk 1 with barbed wire on roof, sandbags on wing & mesh windscreen guard. I have very detailed pics of the windscreen mesh as I copied one for mine.

Adam Have a browse through here: http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/melaugh/images.htm You need to peep into all the galleries, also quite good for early Rover & Saracen. The CAIN site itself is worthy of a sort through generally.

Adam that was a nice large image. 32 BK 92 used to be on static display at a base in NI. Hopefully it will get its Kremlin protection back on again. Glad to see that it is being preserved, but doesn't really fit in with the anniversary as Mk 2 pigs were not around in 1969. They appeared between Sept 1972 to June 1973. Would be nicer to see a Mk 1 with barbed wire on the roof with wooden ladders & sandbags to mark the anniversary of the start of Op Banner. Slight paradox in that 32 BK 90 was one of the last Pigs to be made, but mixed up in the range 32 BK 58 to 32 BK 99 were 20 of the first to be made ie the prototype Pigs (FV1609) - if that makes sense.

How did it happen? Yes I would like to know that! It was done before I bought the pig about 10 years ago. The hazards of buying a vehicle unseen on the telephone & I ended up buying a 4x2! I was overwhelmed by the rareness of the vehicle in that it was FV1609 originally & to date remains the oldest Pig in the world still running. So it was easy to go astray. The reason for the axle dissection is that I am trying to have a clearout. This was part of the rear axle I took off. What went on was axle that had a shaft go on the other side so I had to mix & match to get one complete working axle. The result was lots of dead bits around, so i have been dismantling every component that is serviceable, putting it in the washer, packing with grease & then in a bag & I MUST try to label all these bits. So they are there for a rainy day. There is great satisfaction at reviewing the damage directly & getting to grips with all the components first hand. Many of which are merely represent in the IPL as items in cross sectional diagrams. This grubby hands on exercise makes it all much more understandable.

Yes both pretty much right. Although these bits are not so much splines but the shaft itself. this was the view into the diff. and this was the shaft end. if you look at the flange of the differential box you can see where molten metal has entered & welded itself on. When I removed the diff casing the oil resembled aluminium paint. The crown wheel only suffered minor abrasions & the pinion wheel had no damage.

Roland broadly speaking yes. But it is more than just a more modern term. FFR was a specific conversion introduced in 1964 that could be done to convert FFW to FFR. FFW was the original wireless Pig, whereby a wireless set was installed into the Pig. FFR was a more comprehensive upgrade whereby racking was fitted allowing a more comprehensive installation to be fitted in a more modular fashion. With this FFR upgrade came an additional antenna mount. All Pigs were made with three antenna mounts. Two on the left side & one on the right. On upgrade to FFR a fourth mount was made by REME to go on the rear right side. That is why this mount never is quite as good looking as the other three. Well its a dynamo. The easiest think to do is look at the top of the dynamo & see if there is a hole about 1.5 in diameter with course mesh over it mounted halfway along the upper part of the dynamo when you look down on it. If that is present your Pig is FFW/FFR & has the Generator No.2. If not is is an APC & has the Generator No.1.

If you need any more of it, you'll have to tell me if it is FV1611 or FV1612 ie APC or FFW.

If it helps I have ATUs No.8 & 9 for £15 each & a matching wing box (no ant base) £10