Diana and Jackie
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Posts posted by Diana and Jackie
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Hi Chris,
That slotted nut spanner is for the final drive nut.
Diana
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On 10/1/2019 at 10:13 AM, Richard Farrant said:
Hi Diana,
Those seals with finger springs sound odd, never saw those on CVR(T) gearboxes.
Hi Richard,
Made by a company called Garlock - still in existence. Not a big fan of steel lipped seals nor finger springs.
Diana
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The clutch seal fitted to the box was Viton, the seal inside the clutch was nitrile with finger spring! - yet more lazy bodging 🙂 the outer track of the clutch roller bearing was rotating in it's housing too - in all a nightmare job!
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Hi Richard,
I had a 1 metre 3/4" breaker bar standing on it and the lock ring would not move, even with a 1500Nm impact wrench it took 5 minutes to get the lock ring (on both sides) to move, I suspect depending on who overhauled the gearbox,( this was Belgian) you may or may not get a problem.
You can also notice bodge marks on the large lock ring - not caused by me, clearly they had tried to get it off by bodging.
You may notice that not even the oil seals were properly fitted, a bearing dust cap was fitted on both sides, one had come loose, had a steel backing and damaged the seal surface of the output coupling shaft, the output coupling shaft lock ring was loose as well which was causing the major oil leak and started off the whole repair.
Incidentally the outer seals were nitrile - with finger springs - really old seals, and the inner seals were Viton, none of which makes the least bit sense!
In all a right bodge, so I suggest anyone taking this job on needs to hope for the best and be prepared for the worst.
Diana
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List of parts
8 Slotted nut (incorrectly numbered in spares book - should be 48?)
47 Tab Washer
46 Washer
45 O ring
44 O ring
43 Output Drive Coupling
42 Oil Seal
40 Bearing Retainer and Oil Seal Holder
39 Bearing
38 Bearing Inner Spacee
37 Bearing Outer Spacer
36 Inner Lock Ring Retaining Tab Washer
35 Spacer
34 Steering Hub inner slotted lock ring
33 Steering Disc Hub
32 Oil seal
22 Gearbox Steering Hub Bearing Retainer and Oil Seal Holder
23 Bearing
24 Spacer
25 Spacer
26 Roller Bearing
27 Roller Bearing outer track retainer
13 Steering hub drive
Part 2
Replacing the inner seal.
Having completed part 1
http://hmvf.co.uk/topic/40807-cvrt-gearbox-oil-seal-replacement-part-1/
The next stage is to replace the inner seal.
Access to the inner seal can only be obtained by removing slotted lock ring item 34.
THIS IS THE ONLY WAY TO ACCESS THE SEAL AND ANY BEARINGS BEHIND IT, it is essential that the lock ring is not damaged, it is also unlikely the lock ring can be removed by any form of bodging such as using a drift, screwdriver or chisel and any attempt using other methods.
anything apart from the correct tool is likely to cause damage, rendering the removal of the locking ring next to impossible – you have been warned!
To access the lock ring having removed the seal holder/bearing retainer, knock back in using a soft drift the drive shaft coupling.
Once again pull out the drive shaft coupling and with luck the bearing item 39 will come out with it, if it does the bearing has to be pulled off the coupling for later reinsertion into the hub.
If the bearing does not come out with the coupling it will have to be removed using a bearing insert extractor. The bearing is readily available and reasonably cheap.
With the bearing removed spacers items 38,37,36 and 35 can be removed, a magnet is useful to remove item 35.
With all the spacers removed the slotted lock ring should be removed, the only way, in my experience to remove this is using a castle socket impact wrench made specifically for the job and a 1500Nm air impact wrench, even a 1 meter breaker bar may not remove the lock ring.
To prevent the hub turning fit 2 or 3 G clamps to the steering disc which will contact the still attached steering brake caliper whilst the lock ring is removed.
With The lock ring slacked off upend the box as best it can be and remove the lock ring, once removed, remove the G clamps and the steering brake caliper.
The hub is heavy !
There is no need to remove the steering brake disc.
Using a 3 leg puller pull off the steering disc hub.
Lift the hub clear, Item 24 will now have dropped making reinstallation of the hub difficult unless the hub and housing are on a flat surface
The oil seal is now accessible and can be removed.
Examine the seal surface on the hub for a groove using a finger nail, a shiny ring on the seal surface is acceptable. If there is a groove a speedy sleeve will have to be fitted.
The replacement seal can now be fitted into item 22 or can be fitted later after item 22 is removed from the main gearbox, (see later) Item 22 has to be removed to reinsert the steering disc hub,
Remove the bolts, item 31 on the periphery of item 22 as well as the socket head bolts item 29. Item 22 can now be pulled off the gearbox by screwing into the two threaded 7/16” Unf bolts on the edge of item 22
Fitting the seal
If a rubber edged seal as previously described is used then insertion into item 22 is not too difficult. Place the seal into the housing and gently push, using hand pressure on the edge making sure the seal is fitting squarely into the housing. With a soft faced hammer or mallet gently tap the seal working slowly all the way around the seal, gradually the seal will move into the housing, when it is flush place the old seal, face on face to the new seal, and again tap gently using the old seal to push the new seal home.
The new seal should not protrude past the housing face, and should sit slightly inside the housing when correctly fitted.
The old seal I removed can clearly be seen in a photo below protruding outside the housing where it had been rubbing on the hub and incorrectly fitted.
Fitting the hub into housing item 22
Grease the seal and the surface on which the seal faces on the hub.
Place the hub into housing 22, centre spacer 24, the hub now needs to be pulled back into item 22 and it’s two bearings using a suitable bolt and two face plates.
A suitable kit is “23pc Front Wheel Drive Bearing Puller Removal Installation Tool Kit Set” from eBay or Machine Mart, together with a suitable locally produced flat plate with a hole.
Once the hub is back into housing item 22, the housing can be reattached to the gearbox, use blue Hylomar to seal the joint before reattaching item 22.
Replace the slotted lock ring, tightening it back to where it came off such that it can be locked in place with locking washer item 36 after the spacer 35 is fitted.
Refit spacers 37 and 38, refit bearing 39 hammering it in squarely on its outer race.
Proceed to fit the bearing retainer/seal housing as per part one and continue assembly as per part 1
http://hmvf.co.uk/topic/40807-cvrt-gearbox-oil-seal-replacement-part-1/
Item 35 spacer can clearly be seen, behind that is the difficult to remove lock ring
Steering disc hub removed, old oil seal clearly visible
The incorrect fitting of the old seal can be clearly seen.
New correctly fitted double lip seal
Preparing to pull the steering hub into it's housing -Notice the rust marks on the sealing flange ! The silicon sealant used previously had not been correctly applied. - use Blue Hylomar!
The steering brake hub being pulled back into it's housing with a super large bolt and a piece of scrap aluminium. The 7/16" UNF bolt is still in place used to split item 22 from the gearbox.
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Many Thanks to Richard Farrant for the many message exchanges and brain picking!
List of parts
8 Slotted nut (incorrectly numbered in spares book - should be 48?)
47 Tab Washer
46 Washer
45 O ring
44 O ring
43 Output Drive Coupling
42 Oil Seal
40 Bearing Retainer and Oil Seal Holder
39 Bearing
38 Bearing Inner Spacee
37 Bearing Outer Spacer
36 Inner Lock Ring Retaining Tab Washer
35 Spacer
34 Steering Hub inner slotted lock ring
33 Steering Disc Hub
32 Oil seal
22 Gearbox Steering Hub Bearing Retainer and Oil Seal Holder
23 Bearing
24 Spacer
25 Spacer
26 Roller Bearing
27 Roller Bearing outer track retainer
13 Steering hub drive
The O rings are BS 120 and BS 131 however I believe BS 131 should be BS 133
The Outer Oil Seal AS33726237VIT42 DOUBLE LIP - The British Spares book gives metric measurements for this seal that are nonsense, no seal can be matched to these measurements
The Inner Oil Seal 117.47 mm x 142.88 mm x 12.7 mm (4.625 x 5.624 x .5 inch) DOUBLE LIP if possible. Equivalent AS56246250VIT18 (double lip) OR - SKF CR46155(Single lip)
All seals and O rings should be Viton and all Oil seals should be double lip.
Do not waste time using Nitrile Seals. The British MOD are using PTFE seals, they are highly expensive and not needed for MV use indeed they may lead to shaft groove wear.
The oil seals and O rings can be obtained from Barnwells Manchester.
Special Tools needed:-
Motorcycle suspension castle socket 6170 – This will need to have the internal castles ground back slightly
Drive Shaft puller – it may be possible to adapt/modify a 3 leg puller
Inner Lock Ring IMPACT socket – Special Tool! ¾” drive (contact me for info) to remove item 34
Possibly 1500Nm impact driver to remove item 34
Procedure to replace outer oil seal.
Remove gearbox out of vehicle, drain all oil, leave the brake caliper in place.
Knock back tab washer item 47
Using the 6170 castle socket remove the slotted lock ring, to prevent the Drive coupling moving insert a suitable drift into one of its three holes and let it rotate against the brake caliper.
Remove item 47
Fit puller and pull off drive shaft coupling against centre shaft. The washer item 46 can be recovered when the driveshaft coupling is removed.
Remove the bearing retainer item 40 lever out oil seal item 42
(Note to remove the bearing retainer remove the 6 retaining screws, using 2 x ¼” unf bolts screw into the housing in the threaded holes provided. Recover the bolts after the housing is extracted)
If there is a dust cover fitted to the bearing remove it, since it’s not needed and should not be fitted.
At this point the outer seal can be replaced and if the inner seal is not to be replaced then reassembly can begin. If the inner seal is to be replaced go to Inner seal replacement.
Examine the seal surface of the drive coupling, if it has a groove, as confirmed by a finger nail fit a speedy sleeve shaft repair (see Youtube), the shaft may have a polished ring where the seal has rubbed, this is fine as long as no groove can be felt with a thumb nail.
Use Blue Hylomar to seal the bearing housing, use blue thread locker to lock the retainer holding screws and screw in using a sutable HAMMER impact wrench to tighten.
Grease liberally the oil seal, grease liberally the drive shaft coupling, fit to the splined shaft and knock in using a soft drift, such as aluminium, brass or nylon.
Fit the two O rings, on the inner (smaller) O ring use a smear of silicon gasket maker.
Fit the washer, 46, smear grease on the lip where the outer O ring fits, smear grease on the outer face of the washer, tighten the slotted nut, and then remove it.
Fit the lock tab and grease the outer face
Refit the slotted nut and tighten – WARNING, if overtightened it may destroy the locking tab.
Knock over two of the lock tabs into the slots in the slotted nut.
Left Viton Seal, Centre Nitrile seal with gaiter spring, old nitrile seal with steel casing and spring fingers - maybe found in Belgian gearbox get rid ASAP
Left to right: Drive shaft coupling extractor, drive shaft coupling lock ring retainer socket, lock ring tab washer, impact socket to remove inner slotted ring 3/4 drive.
Bearing retainer and oil seal holder removed, clearly visible is the bearing, which still has it's dust cover fitted - should have been removed!
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The integrity of the bulkhead (drivers wall) is essential for your safety. It's a firewall to stop fire, fumes and fuel getting to the driver and occupants and killing them.
Both the throttle idle screw and mixture screws can be reached without removing the decking or drivers wall. It requires a little dexterity and knowledge of where the adjustments are located.
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6 hours ago, Bob Grundy said:
Thank you for that illuminating information....
Oh and the dial illumination is via a 6.3 volt bulb... 😁
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The Avo is a piece of C**P wanders like it's drunk and has a miniature EC70 or 71 tube..as it's oscillator output tube. The output attenuator is likely to have spot burns across it's range.
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Pair of CVRT steering calipers for sale,
Pistons and bores look good, new seals needed - note these are MINERAL OIL SEALS not DOT4/5 seals for a CVRT
Both Calipers are offside (Right) £60 each plus carriage. - and they are heavy
Private Message me if interested.
Diana
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One pair of Viton/FKM toroid rings or O rings for the hub face oil seal of a CVRT final drive.
One O ring per side.
PLEASE NOTE, these do not fit nor are required for a Scotseal oil seal.
£10 plus carriage.
Diana
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Think you have your answer - a parts manual is the best place to find numbers, and the place to get one is GreenMachine surplus.
Diana
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No problem, thought it may have been a simple microswitch problem or switch setting.
Diana
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There should be continuity between the copper armature segments, with everything disconnect, ie the brushes lifted, there should not be continuity between the armature shaft and copper segments. follow the field windings and see if there's continuity of the field coils,
Common failures are sticking brushes i.e not making contact with the armature and loss of residual magnetism.
A mechanic who knows what they are doing should be a bit more precise than "it's U/S"
Diana
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See chapters 4 and 5, suggest checking the operation of the microswitches and wiring to the microprocessor and controller.
Diana
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Thanks to Richard I've just replaced the two outer seals on my CVRT Gearbox, there is also a slotted nut and behind that a washer, which has two seals, a rubber O ring and a flat rubber washer, both can also be a source of a leak as well as a loose slotted nut. Theses seals are also set in a removable housing held by machine screws, again the face of the housing can also be a source of a leak, I uses RTV silicon to seal the housing,
If you replace the seals use Viton seals, also worth doing the two seals in related to the clutch, one inside the clutch and the other on the gearbox.
Diana
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I recently wanted to renew a CVRT gearbox lubrication hose that was unavailable. After contacting Hoseman (Paul) on this forum he found a suitable replacement fitting and made up the new hose for me at a very reasonable cost.
I know he has now bought all the spare 1 1/8 UNF hose ends in the UK, so if you want a CVRT hose remaking or renewed or a hose for any other vehcile this is the person you need to contact.
Diana
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A picture of the output coupling and castle lock ring. Subsequently the castle lock ring was found to be loose, underneath the washer was an O ring and a rubber washer, who's purpose is to stop oil leaking out of the box. If the castle lock ring is loose then oil is going to leak past the washer..
I managed to remove the output coupling, the oil seal had gone hard, another cause of a leak.
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Here is a scan of the output shaft(s).
The seals are items 42 and 32, there are also associated O rings items 44 and 45 . I spoke to Trelleborg some time ago and they confirmed that whilst The British Army use PTFE seals for our applications it's quite satisfactory to use standard seals.
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Hi Richard,
I think I am getting my inner and outer seals confused. The smaller seal I believe can be removed with a Laser Tools part 6179 castle lock ring tool (for a Kawasaki motorcycle).. The removal of castle lock ring which has already been butchered on my gearbox, allows access to deal with the smaller seal, it's the larger seal that presents the problem.
At least knowing the box has to be vertical is a start 🙂
Tomorrow I will post a scan of relevant part of the box so that you may be able to enlighten us further !
Thanks again for your invaluable input .....
Diana
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Has anyone replaced the output shaft oil seals of a CVRT Gearbox? If so how did they do it?
All the output seals on my CVRT Gearbox are leaking, I have the seals, and I can probably do the outer seal fairly easily - but the inner seal maybe more difficult.
Any tips or tricks would be helpful?
Diana
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Just had some CVRT main brake pads relined £12.50 each, a bargain considering a set of pads is over £120.
Diana
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Diana
WANTED CVRT Drawbar/towbar/pintle
in HMVF Classifieds
Posted
Wanted drawbar/pintle/ rear towbar as fitted to CVRT rear to tow bar minelayer etc...
PM please with price
Diana