Fossil Posted July 20 Share Posted July 20 Adrian will see what else is mentioned by Eric reference Birmingham, bet theres a few that would be interested in that items whereabouts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Dwyer Posted July 20 Share Posted July 20 5 minutes ago, Fossil said: Adrian will see what else is mentioned by Eric reference Birmingham, bet theres a few that would be interested in that items whereabouts I'd like to think it has pride of place somewhere. I hope it's not resting in landfill! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Posted July 20 Share Posted July 20 This is some terrific research! I'm slowly going through it. So did any subsequent post 42 information as in O&M come from Chilwell lists etc? Just to add a bit to missing information. Contract C13873 (35 Motorcycle combo's) I have them down as supplied to the RN with frame and engines WM20 71449-71483. I'm blowed if I can remember where the info came from although I would have sent it to Chris Orchard. Jan has already given me chapter and verse on my own, January 1940 M20. Ron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rewdco Posted July 20 Author Share Posted July 20 (edited) 22 hours ago, Ron said: This is some terrific research! I'm slowly going through it. So did any subsequent post 42 information as in O&M come from Chilwell lists etc? Ron That is correct Ron, the WM20.70000+ books have disappeared from planet Earth... Edited July 21 by rewdco Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rewdco Posted July 21 Author Share Posted July 21 On 7/19/2024 at 3:08 PM, Adrian Dwyer said: Many thanks. I will let you know if anything comes back. Re: the bomb damage book, here is a page of possible interest to Matchless aficionados . A Hi Adrian, You made me curious... Apparently the Matchless factory was at the crossing of Burrage Grove and Maxey Road, in Plumstead. When I check this address on the bomb damage map, it looks as if there was no (serious) damage to this factory... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rewdco Posted July 21 Author Share Posted July 21 (edited) Just did an interesting overlay on the Coventry map: In the war time "bomb damage map" it is difficult to see where the Triumph factory was located: So I did another overlay: the Triumph factory is at the right hand side of this map detail: I think the aerial view must be orientated like this on the bomb damage map... Found these pictures on eBay. Apparently they also show the Priory Street factory: Edited July 21 by rewdco 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Dwyer Posted July 21 Share Posted July 21 3 hours ago, rewdco said: Just did an interesting overlay on the Coventry map: In the war time "bomb damage map" it is difficult to see where the Triumph factory was located: So I did another overlay: the Triumph factory is at the right hand side of this map detail: I think the aerial view must be orientated like this on the bomb damage map... Found these pictures on eBay. Apparently they also show the Priory Street factory: Great images. Re: locations, I note some articles seem to misidentify the Standard Triumph factory as the Priory St. Works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Dwyer Posted July 21 Share Posted July 21 4 hours ago, rewdco said: Hi Adrian, You made me curious... Apparently the Matchless factory was at the crossing of Burrage Grove and Maxey Road, in Plumstead. When I check this address on the bomb damage map, it looks as if there was no (serious) damage to this factory... However, the black circle several roads down marks a V2 impact. That must have made their ears ring. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rewdco Posted July 24 Author Share Posted July 24 As promised: the Albion story... As many of you know, I’m doing a never ending research job on the Royal Enfield motorcycles that were built during WW2. Since the early 1930’s Royal Enfield had always used Albion gearboxes. These gearboxes were produced by the Albion Engineering Company, Tower Works, Upper Highgate Street 48-56 in Birmingham. But in 1942 Enfield introduced the new WD/CO model, the prototype of this model having a Burman gearbox. The first contract bikes (C/11081) still used an Albion gearbox, but very soon Enfield also made a contract with Burman equipped bikes (C/13870). For a long time it has been unclear why Enfield suddenly opted for the Burman gearboxes. It has been a long standing urban myth that the Albion factory had been bombed and therefore they would have had capacity problems. I have always had my doubts about this theory, and I’ve now debunked this myth… The “Demand Date” for the contract for which Enfield built the Burman equipped prototype was July 3rd 1941. Question is: was the Albion Engineering Company bombed shortly before this date? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rewdco Posted July 24 Author Share Posted July 24 (edited) It was time to make a study of the Birmingham Bomb Census Map that I found on the Internet: Unfortunately the map is only a low res version, so I had a problem: where is Upper Highgate Street? We all know that Google (Earth) is your best friend, 48 Upper Highgate Street is here: Hmm, looks like a weird place for a gearbox factory… But in Google Earth there is a slider to go back in time. This is the oldest aerial view (1945), it is clear that the complete area has been redeveloped. And that the current Upper Highgate Street is no longer where it used to be... Edited July 24 by rewdco Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rewdco Posted July 24 Author Share Posted July 24 (edited) I have started this study in 2017, on the Birmingham History Forum. Fortunately one of the moderators (thanks, Mikejee!) had a detailed 1950’s map of the area, and on top of that the Albion factory (“Tower Works”) was clearly marked! This allowed me to search on the bomb map for Upper Highgate Street. The bomb map is not an Ordnance Survey map, and it is very low res, so unfortunately I couldn’t use it as an overlay in Google Earth. But in the end I did find the exact location of the Albion factory: Then I made an overlay of the detailed 1950’s map in Google Earth: On this map I put pins on the locations where bombs fell in the vicinity of the Albion factory: Apparently no direct hits on the factory, although the unexploded bomb was very close. But on the Birmingham History Forum I also found a testimony of an eye witness: “First hand info. run downstairs to ask hubbie. Hubbie lived at 37 Upper Highgate Street. In the entry next to his back garden was Millars. his house and then the girls school plus entrance then continuation of houses down the street. The Albion was demolished many years later. The opposite corner got bombed. He said that as he was young it was called a landmine ??? it cleared the whole area on the opposite side all around the Cromwell Passage area to the corner. He said some of it may have got damaged but not that much, it continued production for many years. His family lived at no. 17 Upper Highgate Street before he was born (1936)” I have added a yellow pin on Hubbie’s house (number 37) and on Cromwell Passage, and a black pin (Landmine?) where the bomb that "cleared the whole area on the opposite side all arond the cromwell passage area to the corner” must have fallen. Please note that “incendiary bomb 3” must have fallen on Hubbie’s house, or at least very close! Hubbie didn't talk about that… On the other hand, when we look at the 1945 aerial photograph, it is clear to see that “a landmine ??? cleared the whole area on the opposite side all around the Cromwell passage area to the corner.” Then I found a cropped version of another Birmingham bombing map. The Albion factory can just be seen, just above halfway on the left hand side: The difference with my first bomb map is that there was no incendiary bomb on Hubbie’s house, no UXB on the corner of Angelina Street and Upper Highgate Street, but there was a bomb at the beginning of Cromwell Passage. Could this be a more correct map I wonder? This would correspond with Hubbie’s witness. But anyway, in both maps the Albion factory was not hit. And last but not least: the demand date for the Burman equipped motorcycles was 14/03/1942, this was almost a year and a half after these air raids… Quod dicere volebam. Edited July 24 by rewdco Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rewdco Posted July 24 Author Share Posted July 24 (edited) But there is more: Maybe the urban legend was based on the fact that Burman had been bombed...? Burman had two factories during WW2: Ryland Road and Wychall Lane. Unfortunately neither of these premises is within the reach of my bomb census maps… But I recently received this scan from a friend of mine: And in the Burman Archives (that I found in the Birmingham Library), I found the illustrations below: Edited July 24 by rewdco 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rewdco Posted July 24 Author Share Posted July 24 (edited) But let’s go back to my initial question: why did Royal Enfield use Burman gearboxes all of a sudden? Enfield (and Albion) had mainly been making WD/C bikes (and gearboxes) until the WD/CO came out. Approximately 19.000 in two years and three months time. All of a sudden the Army starts ordering WD/COs, also with an Albion gearbox. But these WD/CO contracts are much bigger contracts than what they had been producing until now. The first WD/CO contract C/11081 was for 5.000 motorcycles, and the demand for the second WD/CO contract C/12425 soon followed: another 5.000 bikes. It looks as if Enfield argued that they were unable to deliver as they could not guarantee gearbox supply (and I’m pretty sure that this had nothing to do with the blitz, as we were already one year later by now!). The M.o.S. then took the decision to approach other suppliers, to effectively stock the boxes as a buffer and loan them to Royal Enfield for installation as needed (this is known as the “embodiment loan” system). So it was agreed that the gearboxes for C/12425 were to be built by a subcontractor, who had to deliver the 'boxes to Chilwell. The Army would then send the gearboxes through to the Enfield Works, who would put them in their frames. The subcontractor who had to make these Albion gearboxes was Kitson Pease Ltd. (Kitson Pease was making high-pressure hydraulic couplings until then, so for the War Effort they now also had to make (assemble?) Albion gearboxes under license). The Kison Pease contract demand date (contract A/2551) was November 4th 1941, the Royal Enfield contract C/12425 demand date was November 10th 1941. In the Ministry of Supply contracts ledger (Source: National Archives) I found the following quote in the contract C/12425 information: “Gearbox equipment (assemblies): Albion types. These assemblies are required to be produced pari-passu with the machines at item 1 (these are the 5.000 motorcycles, ed.) and are required to be delivered to the chief ordnance officer central ordnance depot Chilwell.”. In the same book it can be found that the C/12425 bikes only costed £50-3-6, whereas the C/11081 WD/COs costed £57-16-9. No doubt because the price of the gearbox was not included for the contract C/12425 motorcycles... A few months later (March 14th 1942) the Army wanted to order another batch of 6.000 WD/COs. Once again, the problem of producing enough gearboxes arose. This time they found another solution: the contract was split in two smaller contracts of 3.000 motorcycles each. Burman (who was another well known gearbox manufacturer) and Albion will each make 3.000 gearboxes of their own design. So this batch was split up in a 3.000 WD/CO models contract C/13869, and a 3.000 WD/CO/B models contract C/13870. In late March 1942 Enfield starts producing the first contract C/11081. But when they should start producing the second contract (to be produced pari-passu with the gearboxes), they notice that Kitson Pease hasn't started making the gearboxes yet. So this contract has to be postponed, and Enfield starts making the Albion contract of the two sister contracts instead. (They had already started the Burman contract during the C/11081 production). Here we see that Albion coped very well, but it was Burman that couldn't deliver their gearboxes fast enough, as that contract took ages to complete... During the summer of 1943, it was decided that Enfield didn't have to wait for the Kitson Pease gearboxes anymore. They were allowed to build complete (inclusive gearbox) contract C/12425 motorcycles now. Then in 1944 all of a sudden Kitson Pease announced that they would start to build the Albion gearboxes, so these were now reserved for contract S/3357. In the Ministry of Supply contracts ledger (Source: National Archives) I found the following quote in the contract S/3357 information: “Delivery is to commence not later than May 1944 at 1,200 per month or alternatively as soon as Embodyment Loan Gearboxes are available.” Well, it would actually take Kitson Pease until 1945 before the boxes were ready! It also looks as if this 5.000 gearbox contract was the last thing Kitson Pease ever did before finally closing their doors, as their “Last annual return” was on March 31st 1945... Jan (hope you didn't get bored too much... 😊) Edited July 24 by rewdco 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rewdco Posted August 18 Author Share Posted August 18 Some more research… I was suddenly intrigued by frame number WM20.97102, the bike from the 1971 letter which triggered me to do the Blitz research. Does this bike still exist? Do I have a WW2 photograph of this motorcycle…? (A long shot, I know, as I have approximately 350 WW2 WM20 photographs with visible census numbers. Compared with the more than 120.000 bikes that BSA built during the war, that’s only a small percentage.) Do we know anything else about this bike…? I started my research by checking the KeyCards. Bingo: 97102 is listed! (For those who are not in the know, the KeyCards were compiled in 1949, and give us the link between the war time census number and the post war ERM number. They also give us the demob date and some other details. KeyCard scans are available from Lex Schmidt.) WM20.97102 was built under contract S/2603. This was a contract for 8.000 motorcycles. Census numbers for this contract were C5207518 - C5215517. WM20.97102 would have had census number C5207802. Deliveries for this contract started mid March 1944, @ 2400 motorcycles per month, so “our" bike must have been delivered to the Forces towards the end of March 1944 (which is not “around 1943” as stated in the BSA letter). These are the closest numbers that I could find in my WW2 photographs, they clearly show how “our” bike must have looked like: 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rewdco Posted August 18 Author Share Posted August 18 In 1949, with the introduction of the new ERM registrations, the bike was issued with number 22YE04. It was finally demobbed on December 3rd 1966. Here’s a close ERM number, to give you an idea on how the bike may have looked like during its BAOR days: 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rewdco Posted August 18 Author Share Posted August 18 The next thing we know is what’s written in the 1971 letter, when the bike was owned by Mr J. Green in Connecticut, USA. “One of the reasons that so many M20s are in the USA, was a large consignment of reserve stocks stored in Germany (in case the ruskies invaded) in the late sixty's and were bought up from auction in Antwerp and delivered to Florida by enterprising dealers, all were in ready to go order, and had been through a rebuild and had bi annual checks, marking the checks by stencil on to the tank." (Andrew Hemsley on the WD Motorcycles Forum). I guess Mr Green must have bought his bike after seeing one of these advertisements: 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rewdco Posted August 18 Author Share Posted August 18 Lots of WM20 owners ask about the history of their bike on the WD Motorcycles Forum. So that’s where I did the next part of my research. And yes, bingo (again)! On December 3rd 2013 a Mr Bob OBrien asked the forum for advice: "For many years I've been involved in the MV hobby. Jeeps- M38A1, M38, MB's GPW's,DUKW's, and others. I've also been a BMW motorcycle rider with R100s, R100rt, and currently ride a R90s. Yesterday I bought a BSA M20 that had sat in storage for fifteen years... Soooo, could I get some feedback on the quality of parts manufactured offshore? Thanks, Bob in Maine”. Followed by another post on December 9th 2013: "Hello all, I'm one week into my M-20 ownership.I'd like to know what tank # would be correct for frame# WM20 97102 / engine# WM 20 94932. The bike was painted a blue/grey with RAF 83049 stenciled on the tank. Is that number significant, or might it be the previous to the previous owner's losing lottery ticket number that day? Thanks guys, Bob O “ So when Bob bought the bike on December 2nd 2013, it had sat in storage for 15 years. That is since 1998 (approximately). It had been repainted in blue-grey, and a (fictitious) RAF census number had been applied to the petrol tank. The bike had a non-matching engine (number WM20.94932, I’m sure that this engine had been fitted during a BAOR rebuild). I have contacted Bob about this bike, and this is what he told me: "I no longer own it. Strangely enough , it returned to Europe. I sold it to a Polish collector in 2020 and his name I don't recall. Hopefully you will hear of it amoungst the WW2 vehicle hobby. It was in RAF blue when I sold it. “ Is the new Polish owner a HMVF member I wonder…? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Dwyer Posted August 18 Share Posted August 18 5 hours ago, rewdco said: Lots of WM20 owners ask about the history of their bike on the WD Motorcycles Forum. So that’s where I did the next part of my research. And yes, bingo (again)! On December 3rd 2013 a Mr Bob OBrien asked the forum for advice: "For many years I've been involved in the MV hobby. Jeeps- M38A1, M38, MB's GPW's,DUKW's, and others. I've also been a BMW motorcycle rider with R100s, R100rt, and currently ride a R90s. Yesterday I bought a BSA M20 that had sat in storage for fifteen years... Soooo, could I get some feedback on the quality of parts manufactured offshore? Thanks, Bob in Maine”. Followed by another post on December 9th 2013: "Hello all, I'm one week into my M-20 ownership.I'd like to know what tank # would be correct for frame# WM20 97102 / engine# WM 20 94932. The bike was painted a blue/grey with RAF 83049 stenciled on the tank. Is that number significant, or might it be the previous to the previous owner's losing lottery ticket number that day? Thanks guys, Bob O “ So when Bob bought the bike on December 2nd 2013, it had sat in storage for 15 years. That is since 1998 (approximately). It had been repainted in blue-grey, and a (fictitious) RAF census number had been applied to the petrol tank. The bike had a non-matching engine (number WM20.94932, I’m sure that this engine had been fitted during a BAOR rebuild). I have contacted Bob about this bike, and this is what he told me: "I no longer own it. Strangely enough , it returned to Europe. I sold it to a Polish collector in 2020 and his name I don't recall. Hopefully you will hear of it amoungst the WW2 vehicle hobby. It was in RAF blue when I sold it. “ Is the new Polish owner a HMVF member I wonder…? Top sleuthing! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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