The Bedford Boys Posted January 28, 2010 Share Posted January 28, 2010 (edited) Hi guys, thought I might put up a few photos of a rare vehicle , the New Zealand pattern wheeled carrier. These vehicles were powered by a ford flathead V8 which was situated in the rear of the vehicle. The New Zealand pattern vehicle was based on the Indian Pattern wheeled carrier, the main differences being the chassis, wheel sizes and hull construction. We and another forum member collectively have three and a half hulls and two chassis of these vehicles. There are only three (possibly four) of these vehicles restored. I do not know of any Indian Pattern Wheeled Carriers that have been restored. The only pictures of one in existence I have seen is next to a sherman ARV in Iraq (Sorry if it's not a sherman, I don't know my tanks. Picture is from this forum). I shall post pictures of our projects in the near future. Edited January 28, 2010 by The Bedford Boys I'm a noddy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveo578 Posted January 28, 2010 Share Posted January 28, 2010 There was the remains of a Mk4 Indian Pattern Carrier in the large scrapyard in Kabul Afghanistan many years ago, it had probably been the exhibit in the Afghan Army Museum where one was displayed for many years. The Indian Army Museum at Ahmednagar may have an Indian pattern Carrier and I think there may be a Mk4 in the large park in Calcutta were many Army exhibits were displayed in the mid 1970s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcspool Posted January 30, 2010 Share Posted January 30, 2010 Hi guys, thought I might put up a few photos of a rare vehicle , the New Zealand pattern wheeled carrier. These vehicles were powered by a ford flathead V8 which was situated in the rear of the vehicle. The New Zealand pattern vehicle was based on the Indian Pattern wheeled carrier, the main differences being the chassis, wheel sizes and hull construction. This Life Magazine picture of UN Troops In Korea taken in February 1951 provides a magnificient shot of an Indian Pattern Wheeled Carried in New-Zealand service. H. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcspool Posted January 30, 2010 Share Posted January 30, 2010 There was the remains of a Mk4 Indian Pattern Carrier in the large scrapyard in Kabul Afghanistan many years ago, it had probably been the exhibit in the Afghan Army Museum where one was displayed for many years. Steve, Are you referring to this picture - see inside red circle? Picture source: AFV News Forum. Hanno Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveo578 Posted January 30, 2010 Share Posted January 30, 2010 Hanno Yes that looks like one, some-one has sharp eyes!:-) Couple of nice BAV 485 Dukws in the foreground too, I wonder what use they were? I've copied some photos showing the Afghan museum Indian Patern Mk4 carrier from Armor of the Afghanistan war. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcspool Posted January 30, 2010 Share Posted January 30, 2010 (edited) Yes that looks like one, some-one has sharp eyes!:-) Steve, Thanks, over the years I have developed a sense for spotting Sherman and CMPs. The sighting is confirmed by this picture: Hanno Edited January 30, 2010 by mcspool Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcspool Posted January 30, 2010 Share Posted January 30, 2010 (edited) The only pictures of one in existence I have seen is next to a sherman ARV in Iraq (Sorry if it's not a sherman, I don't know my tanks. Picture is from this forum). Picture source is my G104 album: http://www.surfacezero.com/g503/showphoto.php?photo=42856&title=img-3207&cat=797 And here is another picture of it. Edited January 30, 2010 by mcspool Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bedford Boys Posted January 30, 2010 Author Share Posted January 30, 2010 Have yet to take some photos of our projects sorry. Alot of the NZ Pattern Carriers were converted into forestry fire tankers when they were withdrawn from service in 1957. New Zealand recieved 99 chassis from canada during production but only around 76 of these ended up as operational vehicles. A fair amount of unused chassis from NZR Workshops ended up in the fire tender role as early as 1944. The carrier with AVIATION on the side was once owned by the Museum of Technology And Transport in Auckland, but unfortunately this vehicle was scrapped. In service, the NZ Pattern Wheeled Carriers were known as LPOP's (Local Pattern Observation Posts) or FAOP's (Field Arillery Observation Posts). The LPOP's first saw service in Guadalcanalin August 1943 where seven vehicles were sent to 3 NZ Division. The vehicles performed extremely poorly ofroad and were found to be overweight and underpowered. The only vehicle capable of recovering a wheeled carrier being the Scammel. Also an interesting point to note is that the clutch, brakes AND accelerator were all hydaulic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bedford Boys Posted January 30, 2010 Author Share Posted January 30, 2010 This Life Magazine picture of UN Troops In Korea taken in February 1951 provides a magnificient shot of an Indian Pattern Wheeled Carried in New-Zealand service. H. I have that photo aswell, magnificent as you say. That carrier is a NZ Pattern carrier. New Zealand did not use Indian Pattern carriers. One was imported for research into building our model. The Indian Pattern carrier is virtually identical but the two can be differentiated by hull construction, wheel size and driver's position. The Indian patern hull is rivetted, the Nz welded, the Indian Pattern uses 16" wheels, the NZ 20", the Indian pattern has the driver sitting above the chassis rails, the NZ between the rails. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveo578 Posted January 30, 2010 Share Posted January 30, 2010 Hi Hanno Well in a way they are CMPs the two latest pictures are great -2 of them, unfortunately not likely to attact any attention. The photo of the Mk2 Indian pattern carrier in Iraq also shows a Daimler Mk2 and the body of a Crossley indian pattern a/c. great stuff. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bedford Boys Posted January 31, 2010 Author Share Posted January 31, 2010 Those Mk4's sure do share quite a likeness to the Mk2's. they look as if they have sliced the top off and added a box on the front. Were these mk4's fitted with turrets? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveo578 Posted January 31, 2010 Share Posted January 31, 2010 Indian police and border guard have been known to modify vehicles but AFAIK Mk4s were not fitted with turrets, certainly not as built. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcspool Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 The Indian Army Museum at Ahmednagar may have an Indian pattern Carrier This is the most comprehensive set of pictures I have found of that museum: http://picasaweb.google.com/vibhu.rishi/AhmednagarTankMuseum#. Not saying they do not have one, but I cannot spot an Indian Pattern Carrier in these pictures. Many other rarities though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcspool Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 (edited) Were these mk4's fitted with turrets? Like Steve said, they were not manufactured as such. The Mk.IIC and III had a smal turret though, a bit like the one on Otter and Humber LRC. Edited February 2, 2010 by mcspool Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcspool Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 The Indian Army Museum at Ahmednagar may have an Indian pattern Carrier and I think there may be a Mk4 in the large park in Calcutta were many Army exhibits were displayed in the mid 1970s. None found here, either: http://relics.warbirds.in/main.php Not to say there are none in India, if we look hard enough I am sure we will find some more! H. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveo578 Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 (edited) mcspool This is the most comprehensive set of pictures I have found of that museum: http://picasaweb.google.com/vibhu.ri...garTankMuseum#. Not saying they do not have one, but I cannot spot an Indian Pattern Carrier in these pictures Hi Hanno Downloaded photo from picasaweb The 1st photo shows the following a Universal Carrier marked T16 (G*d knows why:undecided:) in the mid background a turreted Mk3 and further aft a Mk2 personel carrier, far background a Humber Mk2-3. 2nd photo shows the Mk3 The bad news on another thread is theat the Kabul tank scrapyard is being cleared and I doubt the Mk4 will be saved. I would be surprised if anyone from any of the allies military has really looked at the stuff prior to its disposal. There is a nice photo of a NZ pattern OP Carrier in Jim Mesko book Armor in the Korean War. Steve Edited February 2, 2010 by steveo578 spelling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcspool Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 (edited) Downloaded photo from picasaweb The 1st photo shows the following a Universal Carrier marked T16 (G*d knows why:undecided:) in the mid background a turreted Mk3 and further aft a Mk2 personel carrier, far background a Humber Mk2-3. 2nd photo shows the Mk3 Hi Steve, excellent! Like I said: "if we look hard enough I am sure we will find some more!" In which Picasa folder did you find these photos? Interesting to see both the open top and turreted variant, shows how the original carrier concept transformed into an armoured car. If the war had lasted any longer, it might have evolved into a tank destroyer or even tank! The bad news on another thread is theat the Kabul tank scrapyard is being cleared and I doubt the Mk4 will be saved. I would be surprised if anyone from any of the allies military has really looked at the stuff prior to its disposal. It seems there is more than one scrapyard in the area. The one shown on CNN is a tank repair depot facility of some sort, while the other seems more like a dumping ground which must have been there for decades as the remains of six Hawker Hinds were recovered from there. I agree most military would not give a second glance to such a scrapheap, one cannot really blame them as they have been trained to do other jobs. . . Hanno Edited February 3, 2010 by mcspool Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveo578 Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 Hi Hanno In which Picasa folder did you find these photos? The volume I viewed was http://picasaweb.google.com/patilrao...agarTankMuseum The same site as I posted in the BARV thread. The photos are number 93 and 121. The photo showing the TATA indcom logo is interesting perhaps TATA is is giving funding to the museum, TATA heavy industries developed from the railway-heavy industry facilities where the Indian Pattern vehicles were built during WW2. I have yet to find any photos of happy Indian families with their newly acquired digi-cameras taking photos of the exhibits that are in the Maidan park in Calcutta, which is where the Mk4 was in the 1970s. One of my mates was in Calcutta a few years ago to work on a heavy industry project and said when he got back -"I saw a couple of tanks" when I asked where were the photos the reply was "No fear, I'm not photographing tanks in India I'll end up in prison" - a mutual friend was nearly arrested in Lahore (his home town) for attempting to photograph the Churchill and Shermans at the PAC centre, -even allowing for the fact that a relative is a senior officer in the border protection force:undecided:. I agree most military would not give a second glance to such a scrapheap, one cannot really blame them as they have been trained to do other jobs. . . While watching where to step is the most important training:-), I have to say that both UN and members of the various Allies (NATO?) have specialists in both historical and environmental disciplines out there, afv history does not have acumen as other subjects in post graduate research therefore it is not a priority. The only stuff that seems to be saved is the FT18s removed by U.S. army units sometime ago, the first photo you posted is the one where the FT18 is in the centre of the scene. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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