robin craig Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 This is such a logical computer era type question but here goes anyway. Is there any listing of FV parts numbers and their usage, ie FV1234 left hand widget fits all land rover and bedfords and nortons. Im asking this as we have many Brit Mvs in the collection and it is only by familiarity that one knows that the same part fits another vehicle but might be a different number, the classic is some Land Rover parts have both a Land Rover part number and an FV part number, and yet another number in the Supacat parts listings. see what I mean? Robin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmite!! Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 Not FV numbers but interesting part number reading from Clive here... http://www.hmvf.co.uk/pdf/EarlyArmyPartnos.pdf http://www.hmvf.co.uk/pdf/NATOparts.pdf http://www.hmvf.co.uk/pdf/RAFPartNumbers.pdf http://www.hmvf.co.uk/pdf/ArmyandNavyStoresNumbers.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fv1609 Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 (edited) I don’t think you are going to find anything like that in the public domain Robin. A lot will depend on whether a particular component has been NATO codified. If you have access to a NSN database you can enter the FV number to get a NSN. With that you will get the manufacturer’s part number. That may be the actual manufacturer of the item itself, in addition you may get part numbers assigned to the item by the manufacturer of a complete assembly, vehicle etc. As you have noticed it can be in a Supacat or a Land Rover! If the item was used by the Navy or RAF, you will also get the vocabulary number that they used. In the case of the RAF the vocabulary section will indicate the manufacturer of the vehicle, but not I’m afraid the model or type. You will also get description of the item but this is limited to what can be displayed for instance this Ferret item FV 143029, “Pivot, assembly, generating mounting” comes up as “PIVOT ASSEMBLYXGENE”. You can generally guess the rest of it, but it’s nice to have the full description. Apart from the IPC or COSA if you are lucky enough to have microfiche records a fuller description is given there. Incidentally that item, apart from having a Rolls Royce RE number, it also has a 61BU vocabulary prefix showing that this item was used in RAF Rolls Royce ‘B’ Series engines. Furthermore it has a DMC (Domestic Management Code) LV10 indicating that it is a component for Standardised Engines & therefore could be common to many different types & makes of vehicle. One of the benefits of NATO codification is that commonality is encouraged between defence manufacturers so that items for a particular requirement can crop up in another product as you have seen. The FV number just means that an item, assembly or vehicle complies with the design specification laid down either in design document or simply a draughtsman’s drawing of a small item. We are all familiar with vehicles that are allocated FV numbers & can see the general logic to the structure of allocations. Although it is hard to see the structure that exists with FV codified parts. They are broadly chronologic, but many of us will notice from the index of an IPC how a particular vehicle has numbers that are closely related. Within the batch of numbers there are sections allocated for items made by certain manufacturers. Studying these for a Humber it is apparent that a manufacturer may have several batches of numbers allocated & not all numbers within a batch are used up. Before NATO codification it was not so easy to identify items used in one vehicle that may be used in another. Where these were identified the Vocabulary of Army Ordnance Stores (VAOS) contained items identified with the prefix LV1 – LV15. Gradually as the Catalogue of Ordnance Stores & Ammunition (COSA) displaced VAOS, the LV prefix assumed the role of Domestic Management Code (DMC) preceding the NSN. With time the LV was dropped & just the number was used. Sometimes items made to FVRDE specification might be made by several manufacturers & separate vocabulary numbers not used at all. Here is a Humber item that simply has the VAOS prefix & the FV number. As it happens this has several applications within the vehicle. Robin, going back to your Supacat & Land Rover observation, is that to do with a weapons mount? I note that there is a special DMC of 7WMK that identifies it as part of a weapons mount kit for either a Land Rover or Supacat. I suppose that gets around difficulties of “Sarge, they’ve sent the wrong bit! I don’t think I’m meant to fit this Supacat bit on a Land Rover”? If there are any particular numbers you are stuck on, let me know & I can see what I can find. Edited December 18, 2009 by fv1609 dyslexia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robin craig Posted December 18, 2009 Author Share Posted December 18, 2009 Clive, as always, oustanding contribution, sincere thanks. My question was generated from two different problems I face. They are from a maintenance point of view trying to find alternate sources for parts needed to repair vehicles, ie lets say the stop / tail light on a Land Rover 101FC needs replacing. From my Mk1 brain I think its the same item as on a Bedford MJ and on a Land Rover 90. So I would want to scout around and see if lets say Craddocks had one in stock but will need the Land Rover part number. The obverse of that is say I need a rear fog lamp lenses for our BV 206D I know thats also a generic Brit post war MV part and even has an FV number on it. There are many people in the hobby who cant identify parts like that and dont have the experience or developed knowledge to figure that out. The second is when looking at our parts list of our own parts we hold sometimes i'm not sure if one widget will fit or work on another vehicle. Ive kind of got a hang of it mostly in my pea brain but I know I can do better and save money by alternate sourcing when items are pretty generic. That brings me on to a related problem I am about to have. As you will know from other threads I am joining the ranks of others such as Antar Mike in owning an Eager Beaver. There was a comment in that thread about ROF raiding the parts bin when building it. So after Christmas when Santa has brought me my Eager Beaver parts list (Ive been a good boy so I know im getting these) and manual I will be looking at various parts and wondering if the item of interest is also used on another vehicle. If it is then instead of asking for a indicator for an EB I will ask for the Land Rover equivalent as it may be cheaper. When I mentioned above the "parts list of what we hold" I was talking about our 20 ft ISO sea container. A few years ago I made the decision to once and for all get a grip on our spares for the various vehicles we have in the collection. These have been acquired as provisioning spares as we have bought vehicles and also from trips to the UK. They were spread all over in packing cases and cupboards and chests in any corner that there was space. At the same time we took delivery of the sea can and fitted it out with shelving. One row across the back wall and one row down either side and a double row doen the centre. Each bank was allocated a letter. Each column of shelves in a bank a number, and each shelf in the column a letter. We took a bunch of very large tarps and cleared out a building floor and brought everything over and opened boxes and crates and sorted using my MK1 eyeball and various lists we had to group parts together. Then slowly, grouping by grouping we enetred them to an excel spread sheet. We gave every item our own unique number and then entered a series of data about it including the shelf location quantity of the items and what its manufacturers number is and what its FV number is if known and what category its in and what the part is and what it also will fit and whether it is NOS or take off. For some items we also took a digital picture of the part with the tag on it. So now, when we need to do service work I can open up the file and see we have so many in stock and what shelf it is on etc etc. It works very well as long as one person is ruthless with the database and access to the sea can is restricted and its not used as a candy store to go picking items from. Nothing comes out or goes back in without it going over my desk. This coming spring we are going to do a verification which should only take a couple of days as it has been 3 years since we started the system. It has been a worthwhile investment in manpower and basic computer skills. It was a mamoth project to acheive but I will never look back now. regards Robin See what I mean? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fv1609 Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 Robin I commend you on your ‘stores discipline’. I think that of military stores that are not available, traditionally 80% of the loss is because the label has come off & nobody knows what it is for, rather than fire, theft, sabotage etc. So taking pictures is a very good idea particularly if others are involved in your supply chain. I think I should have adopted this policy not because labels have come off but when salvaging components. Last year I dismantled a couple of Pig wheel stations, diff & transfer box. I put them through the cleaning bath but now they remain on the shelf & floor all jumbled up. Most do have FV numbers stamped on but it would have been so much better if I had taken pictures as I dismantled it all & beforehand when it was in situ. Things seem so obvious when you are dismantling something but not so obvious a year later looking at a pile of bits! An additional complexity is that sometimes things not envisaged to fit, sometimes do. I took a prop shaft off a Pig, it was not the proper item but someone had found that something else would do the job. Such innovations are of course down to the individual & will depend on their experience of other vehicles as to what might fit. At least with the Army you can get back to a common standard if there is a FV number. The Royal Navy catalogue a lot of their stores items on the identity of the equipment it is used in & in turn the system, rather than the identity of an individual item. I remember a submariner telling me, how they had to return to base because of a breakdown for which they carried no spares. When they docked they had no spares in the base, so the manufacturer was contacted who told them that the item was also used in another onboard system for which they carried the spares in the sub! Anyway I think the way you are going about it is excellent. I don’t have the problem of inadvertent pilfering & jumbling up of stock, all loses & chaos are solely my fault! The container seems an excellent idea not just in the security of it but having the spares all together stored with some logic. Here stuff is shoved on shelves, under benches in various sheds & more fragile items in the loft. My fetish for part numbers was born of necessity. Some years ago a dealer stitched me up with inappropriate components, which had I understood labels better, I could have avoided. So now I know what to buy & more importantly what not to buy! The trouble is that part numbers like EMERs & Army publications have become an obsession in their own right! Very wise to try to bring this down to Land Rover commonality if you can, some savings to be had there unless of course the seller can say it is fitted on a Wolf or was used by the SAS! Anyway if you have a list of any FVs you’re stuck on, PM me & I can send what info I can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fv1609 Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 I found some notes I made on the allocation of FV numbers. I had assumed these were Humber but the extent of allocations suggest it must be for other vehicles. 16200-17699 Chassis 17700-18199 Body 174581-175080 Chassis 228251-228750 Body 275902-276007 Chassis What I would like to know is what goes in the gaps. I have a further list somewhere(!) but I think it is mainly for later numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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