wdbikemad

Mark, you flatter me ! I only supplied the damn zip !!!! Seriously though, if such efforts result in preserving this kit then I'm up for that...........

We still have a few 60 pattern "NZ" and "Clix" brand NOS smock zippers here, plus tons of trouser zips too.........not for sale as we haven't got a great deal of the former (smock) variety left..........BUT, will always try to help with genuine cases !!

PS - got buttons and cords too......)

Definitely RAF and flying kit on account of the aircrew "22c" stores ref........

I abandoned all hope of finding comfortable WW2 DR breeches to fit me......at 6'3" and a 38" waist I was on to a loser at the beginning........

BUT, a decent alternative was to secure a pair of modern British MoD Household Cavalry/RHA khaki breeches........still made today in an almost identical khaki cord fabric..........but they now have a zip fly, velcro leg fastenings and are slightly less generous in the upper leg but look okay.........and made to fit "modern man" sizes too....)

These were introduced mid/late 1970s with matching trousers for the arctic.....(AMF deployments) and commonly went to RM as frequently operating in such areas...............but also issued to all other arms alongside the DPM arctic windproofs and associated items if similarly deployed.............Para's in the Falklands also seem to have received an issue of these.........

They don't survive well in storage, even NOS..........

And another one - black, thick faux fur lining and face cover. Thought it was a civilian hat but has broadarrow markings....any thoughts?

 

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Sabre sales have a similar one currently listed on Ebay......same apart from a lighter lining and pin-head size.......described as a RN 1950s Korean War era Naval arctic/cold weather cap.........they may be correct.....?

Hi, probably not a lot of help but to give you some hope I got a new old stock one off ebay last year. Just keep looking.

I have re read your original post and I had trouble with mine running weak just off idle and was in the odd position of having the choke partially on and it spitting as if running weak. I found that be lifting the need a notch at a time I got it to the point where it runs without spitting but is just a touch rich at wide throttle openings. My mate reckons its all to do with the way modern fuel burns because it has ethanol in it.

 

I found that if I can find ethanol free or use the best quality 4 star ( yes I know there supposed to run on poor fuel) it runs a lot better

 

Regards, Centurion

Carbs are a funny thing..........our 16H has a totally NOS carb fitted of the correct spec.........but no matter what I try she still blows back out the rear all over the oil tank..........she runs beautifully, starts first kick hot or cold, and pulls like a train.............the carb has been regularly cleaned out, and everything checked with nothing amiss.......

To combat the blowback, I fitted one of the screw-on "pancake" period filters that helps to a point (also seen on Enfields).....but doesn't entirely cure the problem............I even tried raising and lowering the needle but the bugger just wouldn't run in any higher or lower position...........I now just put up with the blowback as everything else is great.......

I like mint smocks, but also really like to see garments used and modified in-service as they have the history........

Looks like a "84" combat smock FFD pocket added.............nice item !

These were not listed within the DPM CS95 trial garments, but, it is thought that the ripstop trousers were subsequently introduced although found to be less hard-wearing than previously thought thus were rather short-lived........

I have two pairs only.......one well used and the other near mint.......both a contract number marked and genuine issue.......rather rare items it would seem.......

Nice......these date from the early 70s era on account of the American "ALICE" style clips used and employed on '72 pattern webbing ..........it's possible that these clips lasted longer in use on other items, such as the "SAS" vests.........not entirely certain though........

Hi all, first, the date of manufacturing should be established, can be found with the frame number, only a very small part of all the 41 G3L's were manufactured in 1941, so if you give me the number, here or by PM, I can have a look.

 

Cheers,

 

Lex

One of the biggest issues has been establishing exactly when production of the G3L commenced..........contract issue dates are not reliable as these were often issued months in advance of production.............

My opinion ? Trial G3Ls during late-1940 to 1941, production not actually commencing until early 1942............

My own 16H had a mid-1940 contract, but the factory ledgers suggest manufacture did not occur until around March 1941 and delivery (to an ordnance depot) and issue likely some time after that.........

Do these have the same variation in sizing as the 1960 Pattern combats (i.e. more restrictive pre-1966)?

Good question ! Never looked into this fully........introduced early 1960s and obsolete by 1971-72..........thus basically a 60s design........but then, these were "overall" garments so may have been sized slightly larger to fit over other layers........? I will need to measure-up the items I have in due course..........

With 60 pattern gear, the combat smock was redesigned by early 61 but the changes didn't enter the manufacturing stream until around 64 going by surviving items today...........the main change was the cut and fit of the sleeve, being widened and the attachment to the body of the smock radically altered and enlarged (main clue with the improved garments is the lack of vents under the armpit and the oval patches on the sleeve elbows......)..............not sure if similar applied to the overall jacket of the same era........

Rear right arse pocket is present on the example I have show above.....

 

Yet another variation on an issue item!

Looks like the left leg pocket was added to late production then Jason......:-D (ps - I got these from WS Surplus in Oxford.......)

I think mine (Size 8, also new, by F. Fryer Ltd) may have a large leg pocket like the combat trousers...? I need to check....

They do !!! Looks like there were two versions then....? These are late manufacture in green poly-cotton as used for the new lightweight trousers (TMLs) and coveralls coming on stream during the early 1970s.........they also have the rear-right patch pocket on the arse, thus are a similar cut and style to the 60 pattern combat trousers.......

I think mine (Size 8, also new, by F. Fryer Ltd) may have a large leg pocket like the combat trousers...? I need to check....

50s manufacture again.......nice to see the oilcloth in better condition than usual though......

The DPM bush hat appeared around 1975, so pre-metric sizing up to the early 80s I would imagine.......

BD Hats also made combat caps during the 1970s, all the ones I have dating from this period..........

Tower Uniform Headdress also made the RAF (and probably Army too) peaked dress caps.......they were still making them during 1983-84 but by then in metric sizes and seem to have disappeared since........

The second-from-last desert smock appears a 68 copy made by James Smith ("JS")........the last smock is a poor copy of the 60 pattern......I seem to recall a wholesaler (P G Wing ?) who had bales of these new during the early 90s.....? I love the other item made by "Samsung" tho............hope it's as good as my phone......!!!

Bloody hell Jason....talk about throwing a spanner in the works !!!!

I think the blue-grey one is still RAF, but a variant....? Any labels/marks ?

As for the faux leather type, again I suspect either RAF or RN.....? The latter maybe to go with the oilskin waterproofs...? Made by John Compton Sons & Webb (JCS & W)............

I have really no ideas........

The official records note that the UK combat suit was based on the US garments (whether 1943 or 51 pattern)........including the sateen cloth used from mid-1952 on..........gabardine, although a great fabric, was both expensive and found to be less than robust under extended field conditions over the second Korean winter thus sateen-type cloth came on stream for the third winter during mid-late 1952..........

To add concealed buttons to a garment adds to manufacturing time (similar with WW2 battledress that lost the concealed buttons by 1942)......prior to the Korean War, combat clothing development had continued at a fairly leisurely pace, but experience of the first Korean winter over 1950-51 in WW2 mountain clothing and borrowed US combat and winter kit expedited UK production for our own UK combat suit, so I guess speed and volume of production overtook some practicalities such as non-snag concealed buttons........?

Note also, the high-leg boots worn by the figure in the cap.........and the bod in the MK4 tin hat has it on back-to-front...lol !!!

Nice chronological history Jason ! Have a look at the attached images.........trial combat suit, circa 1950-51, made in gabardine...........note the extra pocket on the right-side of the strides, and the pleated cuffs of the smock........

But the biggest difference is the buttons.........they are all "concealed".........this suit is thought to be a development of the original combat suit shown to the press during 1949......when the production garments began to appear during late-1951 all buttons were now exposed (no doubt to expedite manufacture for Korea) and the large pocket now missing from the outer right leg.......

Nice Jason ! Apart from the label, these are identical to the first (Army) issue trousers in gabardine made between 1951 and 1952.......

Thanks Jason ! Is this made from the earlier gabardine or the heavier sateen cloth ? Changeover was mid-1952....

Yep, RN 80s issue......also made in olive drab to the same pattern and much harder to find.........

Earlier versions of both (MK1/2?) have a buttoned front instead of the velcro but otherwise similar.......

Hood was designed for insulation and hearing on carrier flight decks......

Matching trousers also made........

Yep, RN 80s issue......also made in olive drab and harder to find.........

Earlier versions of both (MK1/2?) have a buttoned front instead of the velcro but otherwise similar.......

Hood was designed for insulation and hearing on carrier flight decks......

Matching trousers also made........