Old Bill

Glad you enjoyed the Dennis. The pleasure of it is what this is all about and we love to share it with all of our friends!

Welcome!

Steve :-D

That's some lovely timber you have used there, Mark. What other things did you have to make? Looks like a new radiator and bonnet too.

Well done. It's great to see another one out!

Steve

When I made our first piston patterns for the Autocar many years ago, I did them like this and they worked well. It was only afterwards that I thought about the cores floating off! I hadn't thought about putting a large flange on the end of the core to trap it but it is an obvious solution now. Never mind. Father can take these to the foundry and we can hear what they have to say. Mother took the last ones in and she ended up with a guided tour of the foundry!

If I have to remake them, sobeit but I hope they can manage. We shall see.

I still have the onion pattern to make and then the water outlet as well so there is still plenty of opportunity to practice.

Steve

So that is how it is done! Proper colours too!

I see that the core hangs down into the cavity whereas mine has the crown at the top. That way, the dross will end up in the skirt rather than the crown. I think I will get away with it as any dross will end up in the chucking piece on mine.

It is very nice to see something professionally made. I'm afraid that I just make it up as I go along!

Thanks for sharing that with us Barry.

Steve

Is that the Albion from Farrall's Transport of Chester? If so, they have been working on it for a good few years. Nice to see another one out!

Steve

Yes, that's right. A classis 'cone-clutch'. They are very common on early vehicles, sometimes with leather linings and sometimes just metal to metal. They work well but can grab a bit if you are not careful. It says in the manual to apply oil to the friction material if it does!

The leaf springs are a bit unusual though. We are fortunate to have a refurbished set in stock. It is amazing what you can pick up if you spend long enough on a project!

Steve

Hi Chaps.

Many thanks for all of that. I hadn't thought of using a plastic but it would work. I don't think I want to, though, as it wouldn't be 'as built' which is the standard we have set ourselves. Thanks for the suggestion though.

I am sure we can straighten the worm but am still thinking on the most reliable process. It will certainly want heat as it is quite hefty and to get the bend where I want it, the pressure points are going to be very close together. I have the remains of the original column which I could use to lean on it in the vice but that will take a bit of control on my part to get the right amount in the right direction. I would like to use the press but it is going to be at its limit cold. It does have the advantage of much finer control than the tube. I am thinking that if I make two half bearings and mount them on a plate, say 4" apart, I could put that on the press to support the worm either side of the bend before giving it a push in the middle. It would make the setting up process when hot a lot easier. A two man job though! Tim??!!

The white metal is interesting. It is a very coarse two start thread so the backlash might not be significant. At the moment, I feel inclined to reassemble it all and see how bad it really is and then re-metal if necessary. Dad has cleaned it up today and says that it looks a bit rough in the middle so a bit more thought is needed. Thank you all very much for the procedure suggestions. That takes some of the fear out of the job! I have only done big ends before so this is really quite different.

I shall ponder this job a bit longer before tackling it. In the mean time it is back to pattern making. There should be some pics of that by the weekend.

Cheers!

Steve :-)

Well, I feel a bit more relaxed about keeping fire engine Breathing Apparatus in our dining room, knowing that Steve has a hydraulic press in his lounge!

 

 

Barry.

As Dad says, that is not my lounge. I keep my railway wagons in the lounge along with an air horn from a ship!

The back-lash in the arms and bearings is negligible but in the white metal, it is about 1/16". I'm not sure whether I want to do anything with that for the moment. It depends on how brave I am feeling! I must admit that once you get more than 90° of slop at the wheel, keeping the machine on the road becomes a bit of a challenge. This will give us about 30° I think which is pretty borderline. I think I will make up all of the other bits first and then see how it feels.

Do you think that the metal was simply poured in to fill the space between the worm and nut? Assuming it doesn't stick to the worm (smoking is a good idea) would not the wear in the middle of the worm prevent the nut from moving to the ends? Have any of you chaps ever done this as I am finding the thought of it a bit daunting!

Straightening the worm will be fun too. it is straight between the bearings and runs OK. Therefore, I need to unbend it at the point where it bent in the first place. Currently, I am thinking of making a split block which I can use to clamp the worm in the vice at the bearing seat. Then I will heat it with oxy-acetylene (borrowed) and lean on it with a piece of pipe. Does anyone have any thoughts about this?

More challenges! I will think about them further whilst making my piston pattern.

Cheers!

Steve :-)

Nice find, Doug!

Does the Melbourne lorry have an M2 engine? That would be the two cylinder version of our M4 in the J-type. What is the history of this one and how old is it? It is nice to see another veteran out and about.

Cheers!

Steve

I think those trailers are water carriers with the two filters mounted high up. If you look at posting number 43 on the 'WW1 Water Cart' thread, you will see a definate similarity. I think that you can even see the hand pumps on the back.

Wonderful photograph!

Steve

Hi Richard.

Many thanks for the tip-off. It is certainly the remains of a J-type with M4 petrol engine. If it were in this country, I would quickly pick them up. However, There is nothing there we don't have so we will let them go and hope that they find a good home.

It just goes to show that there is still stuff out there, even a hundred years later!

Thanks again,

Steve

Well, that's a bit different. I think, perhaps, that you missed your calling!

Thanks for sharing it with us.

Steve

Does that mean that it does not qualify for an age related licence plate then?

Now there's an interesting question! I think it should qualify as although it has no individual provenance, it will be made of mostly 100 year old parts and it will be as if the ASC had just out-shopped it after a heavy general overhaul. This particular set of parts did not come out of Basingstoke all together as part of the same machine but they are the right parts for it.

This is very similar to the B-type bus, 'Old Bill', owned by the IWM. It was built by the London General Omnibus Co. for its own use. They had so many of them that they set up a maintenance depot to look after them. When buses arrived, they were stripped right down and the parts sent to various shops for overhaul. At the end of the line, buses were reassembled using overhauled parts as they arrived. B-type buses arrived and B-type buses left the works but the chances of a chassis leaving with the body, engine and gearbox it had arrived with were slight. Is Old Bill original? Certainly. Is it the vehicle which was assembled in 1912? Certainly not! Admittedly, this vehicle has now been assembled for 80 years which the Thorny has not.

Mr Larkin will undoubtably have something to say on this subject!

Cheers!

Steve

One question I have about the project is whether it still feels like Steve's original lorry, or does it feel more like a new lorry in its own right? When I used to 're-engineer' motorcycles from bits and scraps they always felt like a new thing made of old things. If that makes sense.

That's a good one! We do not have enough bits of any single lorry to give it a provenance so, like the Dennis, it will be a Thornycroft J type lorry assembled from original Thornycroft bits or new parts made as close to the original specification as possible. Hopefully, it will drive and perform like a freshly overhauled lorry. It won't be a replica but, strictly speaking, it won't be a restoration either. Perhaps 'further original' might be a better description!

Steve

Hi Barry.

Yes, you are quite right, the boss is welded on. The silver solder holds only the washers at the bottom end and the pinch bolt boss.

We use silver solder because with a bit of care, it gives a first-rate joint and we can do it. Neither Tim nor Father welds and mine is absolutely awful so it is always a last resort. I have been taking lessons recently but my trainer and I have reached the conclusion that my vision is the problem. I hadn't realised that most welders can see some of the job when they are doing it whereas I can see only a bright dot and have to guess where the joint should be. Marginally better than doing it with my eyes shut but not much!

I have had a failure, as predicted by Gordon, and I will get Tim to post some photos later.

Cheers!

Steve

 

Never had a silver soldered stressed joint come apart?

 

Gordon

A bit of a story there and you were right! I'll sort some more photos out tomorrow.

Steve

Thank you, Gentlemen, for all of your kind thoughts and suggestions.

Dad found the crack after we went our separate ways last weekend so I have only seen the same photographs that you have! I am sure there is a fix in there but I feel inclined to have a closer look at the second clutch before deciding on which one to use. I did start pulling the second one to bits but broke the spring clip off in the hole and so decided to continue with the first instead. As a result of the clip still being in the hole, I think we will have to cut the nut off which is a great pity as it is better than the first. Oh well. At least we can make a new one if necessary. The other plus side of using the second clutch is that we might be able to get away with the original lining again.

Cheers!

Steve

Hello Steve,

 

I use Pine for the patterns..........

 

Best regards,

 

Terry

Thanks Terry. I think you must get better pine than we do!

It is wonderful to see how you do it with removable pieces and so on. I have learned so much from seeing your step by step pictures of the process as well. Thank you very much indeed for sharing them with us.

All the best,

Steve:-D:

Glad I could help Steve!

Hi Tharper!

I have been admiring your exquisite patterns again. They really are beautiful. What sort of timber do you use? Also, how did you put the blank together for the elbows? Can I see three layers put together in small segments?

I use MDF as it is easy to work and good enough for the few castings I want. Not nearly as pretty as yours though!

All the best,

Steve

Might have known Tim would pip me at the post! (Pun intended!).

Steve

Hi Keith.

Back left corner, a Commer (I think). Bottom right where you can see the radiator is an early Leyland (pre-war) and the one to the left of it is a Hallford (A & E Hall of Dartford). Bottom left is very tricky but might be a Peerless. Can't really tell but those are my thoughts. No doubt Tim and Runflat will come back with their thoughts very shortly!

Cheers!

Steve

That is a beautiful plate. The letters are all so crisp too. Wonderful work!

I think we are going to have to have a go at this backyard foundry stuff. Something else to ponder.......

Don't worry about hijacking the thread. I think of this as a bunch of friends sitting in a pub having a good old natter and whilst we have common interests, the topics can ramble into all sorts of interesting corners!

Steve:-D

Hello Steve,

 

Remember I have only been at this a short time.......... Once cured they glue the halves together and insert into the core prints. In some cases Chapletts are need to keep the core from floating or shifting.

 

I hope this helps!

Ah, so that is how you do it! You make the core in two pieces and glue it together afterwards. The light is blinding! Easy when you know how!

Your turning of the elbows is impressive too as the circular section relies on your skill rather than the rotation of the part. Because they are turned at the same time, the two halves of the elbow match exactly for width and section. Sooner or later, I am going to have to treat myself to a larger woodworking lathe as with only a 3 1/2" centre height to play with, I don't have the capacity to do what you have done but at least I know how, now!

Many thanks,

Steve :-D

I think he used a Pattern Makers lathe. They have a flexible section in the bed that you set to the radius that you want. If turning a small radius bent cylinder you have to keep the speed down or it will thrash about a bit.

 

David

Thanks David. I don't quite understand but will have a look at Google and see if I can find some pics.

Cheers!

Steve

While it may not be such an authentic solution, why not use a modern aditive such as 'K Seal' in the cooling system once the engine is running.

Hi Alix.

Thanks for that suggestion. Yes I have heard good things about K-Seal and I think it might well be the final solution. At the moment, one of the leaks is quite severe and it will be simple enough to have another go with the welder. However, the small ones are not worth getting it all hot again so the plan is to suck the air out and paint it with Loctite to try to draw it into the holes. If it still leaks here when we run it, we will add the K-Seal to the radiator as there will undoubtably be leaks elsewhere in the system as well. One thing we have learned about these old lorries is that if they stop leaking, it is because they are empty!

Steve:cheesy: