Pete Ashby

Thanks guys for the kind words, as you will have guessed I'm having to scan the photos from my old restoration albums so it takes a while to scan, change the format and upload. Next will be frame strip down and work on the cab coming in the next couple of days.

Pete

Vulture

I'll look out a couple of photos of my old truck KSU 498. Iv'e not seen her around for years although she still appears on the DVLC data base. how would you like the photos Jpg ?

Pete

A story I am trying to get to the bottom of. I have heard this from several soucres and want to know if there is any truth in it.

 

'Three on the Floor' magazine at the time.

 

Anyone help with any definite information on this?

Now there's a publication from the past Robert, I'll see if I can dig my old copies out for 1976 and see if I can find anything.

For the young readers of this thread 'Three on the Floor was not a 1970's sus publication on the top shelf :wow: but a vintage magazine that covered Fords and also started to cater for the fledgling MV movement of the time produced by the late John Carter.

Pete

A few shots of the engine rebuild

this shows the head on the left, the cylinder and water jacket on the right and the pistons in front.

The engine is back together and ready for installing in the frame for a test run prior to finishing the painting.

The engine installed in the frame.

The rad has been overhauled and installed temporally for the test run.

A few turns on the handle with the plugs out to move the oil round then connect up the starter motor a couple of turns and the engine burst into life. I can only describe it as awe inspiring it was like standing next to a 6 litre stationary engine, the Retriever is flat out at 1700 rpm and ticks over so that you can count the fan blades going round the whole vehicle rocks gently from side to side. After we got tired of just listening to it we adjusted the mag a little to improve the pick up speed and adjusted the carb. Then it was time to add inhibiting oil into the air intake until the engine stalled. plugs out more oil down the bores then seal all orifices and lift out for painting and storage.

Finished engine ready for crating up.

Keep the riff-raff in another thread Vulture..................As Jack would say "We only want a man's truck here!!"

 

Te he he

 

I'll send you a few shots of mine when I have a minute.

Tut Tut young Mr Stevens...................nothing wrong with Chevrolet :-D

Regards

Pete

The next phase was to remove and store the remains of the cab to enable the engine and gearbox to be removed, despite the obvious signs of decay and corrosion virtually all the bolts could be undone either directly or after a short soak in wd40, just goes to show you can't beat good old BSF and Whitworth threads.

here the engine and radiator have been removed

The head and cylinder block have been removed, the Leyland Retriever was fitted with a 4cyl magneto ignition petrol engine as specified by the War Office, interestingly Leyland offered their standard commercial 6 cylinder conventional ignition petrol engine but this was rejected at the time of tender. The engine block is made up off three major components namely head, cylinder block and water jacket and then crank case. This form of construction echo's steam engine construction from a previous age.

Unfortunately the drain taps in the water jacket had become clogged and although the system had been drained water had remained in the jacket and cracked the fairly thin casting so that would need to be sent away to be stitched. The bores pistons and bearings were all good with very little ware evident the rings however were broken in several places so as new rings were unavailable the ring belts were turned to accept modern commercial compression and oil control rings. The bores were then honed, valve seats cut and valves reground then everything was ready to go back together with new seals and home made gaskets.

ciao! a new question for you...about a 1942 Willy MB exhaust muffler must be round or oval version? when one version end and start an other?

thanks for your help!

The change from round to oval for Willys was during May 1942

Pete

The first thing to do was remove the remains of the coach built cab and then see what was left...... in reality not very much.

The next job was to photograph, sketch and measure and make notes before any of the original truck components were removed. The Retriever up to the middle of 1940 was of complete bolt together construction so everything would eventually come apart including the frame rails cross members spring hangers ect. After the middle of 1940 and up to the end of production in November 1941 frame was of the more normal riveted construction. The measuring and photographing phase took about three weekends...no digital cameras in those days.

 

 

 

I don't have any clever analogy to give that could clearly state what I am trying to say, and I know that 99.9999% of the time most people simply shoot for 'acceptable' rather than really go for 'exceptional'.

 

 

I like looking at CCKW just as much as the next guy... and sharing your blog is more effort that most people will ever put into CCKWs. Its a good start, it really is.

 

.

Deadline we have exchanged views before on another thread about GMC prices, it occurs to me to ask if you have ever attended any MV events in Europe ? the reason I ask is your general statements above.

Vulture you keep doing what you are doing well done to you.

regards

Pete

Could any one do me a favour and help my friend price he's Bedford OY type tanker 1942 she seems all there but the engine docent run only turns and a few bits are off but there ???

Bill

to stand any chance of giving a ball park figure a few pictures would be required I'm afraid.

Pete

After unloading and sweeping up the bits that had fallen off the driver departed with a look that suggested I should be sectioned :nut: never mind time to look around the truck in the safety of the yard.

The more I looked the more I realised this one was going to be a long haul but I was committed..... or perhaps should have been.......and so it was time to get the tractor and push the Retriever into it's new home.

The story now jumps forward 51 years from the factory photos above to the arrival of the 'remains' at my workshop in 1991:wow: .

The transporter driver did a brilliant job even stopping several times coming back down the M1 to tie loose bits on that had started to break loose at the dizzy speed of modern travel. This was the first time I had been able to see the truck in the the daylight as it had been jammed between a brick wall and a Super Mack artillery tractor in a large shed back in the yard.

Never one to be faint hearted I must admit I had a moments doubt......but not for long:laugh:

Pete,

 

It will be a pretty good bet, that the Machinery bodies fitted to WOT6's ( and some transfered to QL's postwar), are of the same dimensions.

 

Richard

Ah yes good point Richard, they are similar in construction, however they are just a little bit shorter, I drew my plans up using a genuine 1940 MK3 machinery body that had been fitted to a post war Albion Clansman that I did some work on years ago for a chap. I then checked them against the Retriever that used to be in the Beverly museum.

Pete

This restoration blog may well qualify for a long service award but here goes.

This story starts back in 1991 with the arrival of the remains of a Leyland Retriever from Sam Loptons yard near Leeds both the yard and Sam are now sadly long gone.

The truck had been in the yard for nearly 30 years and before that had seen service with a Northern Showman gaining modifications to the cab in the shape of a coach built hard cab and the removal of the rear body.

It would be an understatement to say that progress has been steady, this is a long term project that keeps being side lined while parts are sourced or other restorations take precedence. It’s probably true to say it will turn out to be a life times work.

However, as the tortoise was apt to say ‘it’s the getting there that matters not how long it takes’.

I hope you enjoy the following story as it unfolds it’s still a long way from finished. I’ll post a series of pictures and text to cover the previous 21 years and then I’ll add pictures and a bit of text from time to time as work progresses.

First a bit of background history on this particular truck was part of contract V3929 placed on the 31 May 1940. This contract included 199 search light, 141 bridging, 6 derrick, 24 wireless workshop, 374 machinery workshop and 59 Royal Engineers workshop trucks, WD numbers 4409708 to 4410860.

My truck has frame No WLW1 3/308739 so it fits neatly into the block of search light trucks however the 500 ordered has been crossed out and reduced to 199 while the order for machinery trucks has been altered to include another 200 units. All this is of academic interest except the result of this change would become evident as the restoration progressed. Search light units were fitted with large PTO generators this involved drilling the frame and additional outputs from the transfer box my truck has neither of these features. If you bear in mind the desperate situation which was moving into its last act on the other side of the Channel at the time of contract placement I think what may be happening is a attempt to make up for actual and projected losses from the BEF. This amounts to literally changing the contract requirements with a stroke of the pen or in this case pencil. As a result of this I elected to restore the truck as a machinery bodied variant.

I thought I’d start off with a couple of factory pictures (credit to the IWM) showing what the machinery workshop Retriever should look like.

Neil

Really do like this, an unusual subject executed to an extremely high standard.

I like your choice of base, simple and un cluttered shows the model of to it's full potential.

Pete

Very nice work very impressed, nice to see some of the early war British kit looking forward to seeing the FBAX.

Pete

Robert, it is one and the same vehicle.

Ah I did wonder

Pete

It's my birthday at the end of the month Hanno, so I have made my interest known to my off spring here's hoping they take the hint and use the link to Jeepworld i provided....

Having corresponded with Les on MLU about 3 ton 6x4's I have no doubt that it will be a excellent reference work I trust you have ordered your copy Mcspool?

Pete

Thank you Richard I knew you were the man to ask............Eau-du-Nil...... well there you are then sounds a bit posh to me

Regards

Pete

Can anyone explain to an MV novice what the thing is about light blue paint and MV's. I have seen engines that colour but my ex Navy 1958 Bedford CA van seems to have the engine bay and interior footwells that colour. Would it be an original feature because someone has gone to quite a lot of trouble to badly spray green over the top of it.

My engine however doesn't ever seem to have been painted.

 

The British army post war painted all engines Duck Egg blue all post war rebuilds of WW11 stock were also painted this colour. I seem to remember reading somewhere that the rational for this was that the light colour would show up leaks quickly and made maintenance in dark engine bays easier to carry out..... Richard Farrent will be able to give chapter and verse on this as I may have dreamt the bit about maintenance.

Pete

Interesting question and one that must occur to most of us from time to time.

To try to add a little detail to your conjecture lets take the case of very early issue 11 and 12 cab CMP's issued to the British forces.

The first CMP's issued to the British arrived in this country in May 1940 and were issued to units sometime after June of that year.

These trucks had two possibilities,

1, perform home base and exercise duties until the parent unit was shipped out to N Africa with the 8th army and latterly with the 1st Army.

2, remain with the parent unit in the UK until early 1944 and then traded in for brand new 13 cab versions just prior to D Day.

In the case of possibility 1 the trucks would be worked to death or lost to enemy action, the comparative few that survived would then take part in the Sicily campaign where even more would be lost. The small number that were still operational would then take part in the Italian campaign. This is exactly what happened to trucks in use with my Father's unit and a study of contemporary photographs will confirm that by the time the British got to Rome they were using 11, 12 and 13 cab variants of CMP's. I believe it is doubtful if any of these trucks ever returned to UK although I have no proof of this.

In the case of possibility 2 the 11 and 12 cab trucks saw relatively little use other than routine operation and on exercise training schemes, they were regularly maintained and suffered no losses to enemy action. As a result when handed in prior to D Day the trucks were serviced and reissued to mainly Polish and Czech free forces that were taking part in the second front. These trucks would then be subject to front line attrition in Europe many were lost and the few that survived almost certainly all ended being collected and sold off from Darleen Dump in Holland again photographic evidence supports this theory.

The two examples above I believe explain why early CMP's are rare in both the UK and in Europe, the few that did make it into post war release sales I would suggest spent their entire service life as base vehicles here in the UK. These vehicles came on to the civilian market early as they were by then considered as limited standard in the immediate post war army, my 12 cab C15A was a good example of this being released early in 1946. Using the above as a model I would suggest that early war British produced trucks followed a similar pattern however the huge losses incurred as a result of the BEF evacuation has also to be factored in to the equation, I have no doubt that is why there are so few British 3ton six wheelers that have survived for example.

Interesting subject thanks for raising it.

Pete

Rub a soft lead pencil along both sides of the zip cheap,works well and the pencil will last for years

Pete

Another variation on this I came across today:

 

"And remember – it isn’t only about what you are willing to pay; it’s also about what the seller is willing to take."

 

:coffee:

Indeed Hanno, sucking the teeth and looking at the ground is all part of striking the deal

regards

pete

 

I find it interesting that there is a 2x -4x price differential in the UK when you folks have more trucks, in better shape and many more rare variants. One would assume that a greater supply would reduce costs. Parts are also in much better supply in Europe.

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Deadline, I'd refer you one of my previous posts on this subject where I suggest that population density plays a part in price paid.

To put it plainly, market force dictates selling price this is a basic fact of commerce.

Here in Europe there is a big demand for MV's of all ages and nationalities.

I have to say that I fear your argument is turning into a flat earth wish :-)

Pete

Sorry, I know this was a typo Pete - but it did make me laugh[/size]:-D

I think describing a signature on the US Constitution as 'inadvisable' would probably be grounds for a lynching in some[/i] states - you'd be safer with 'illegible':cool2:

:red: Well done Martin, that will teach me to pre read before I push the post button :blush:, but then again it might have been a Freudian slip of the finger

A vintage vehicle is an emotional purchase, it's not something you do with your head, you do it with your heart and the value is affected accordingly

Very true, as I think I said several pages back they go for what ever people are prepared to pay.

Pete