mazungumagic

Simon, If it's this photo you remember ... all I did was to salvage the ends (lucon/lucar ?? connectors) and solder them onto new wiring. The yellow plastic descriptors were either salvaged, or I had them in stock from the dismantling of two other Champs. The individual wire locations are very well marked inside the instrument panel and the switchboard, so it would be hard to get the circuitry wrong. The connectors are a two piece item - the metal pin is pressed inside the conical rubber block. They are not generally too difficult to separate and most scrub up very well, given their age. Jack

Simon, you can buy almost anything you might need from Champ Spares http://www.champ-sparesukltd.com/ You might however, find the prices for the looms a bit of an obstacle at 395GBP for the forward harness and 215GBP for the rear. You can make up your own using the remnants of your original cabling, if it is still recognisable, which is what I will be doing. Jack

I'm the builder of the British Model T light patrol car - thanks to Rod (BSM) for introducing this thread to the HMVF. I am splitting my effort between this and the other restoration I'm doing, with a small team of helpers - the thread to that one is at http://hmvf.co.uk/forumvb/showthread.php?28539-The-Restoration-of-Austin-Champ-1824 My plan is to have the light patrol car ready for the centenary commemorations of WW1 events, which is only two years away. I've learnt a great deal about Model Ts in general and also a little about the Light Car Patrols which operated in the Palestine area during WW1. There are quite a few references to their activities in the Australian Official History, eg He passed Dhaheriye, and was sitting down south of Hebron, when one afternoon his patrols were startled to see two cars of the No. 7 Light Car Patrol, under Lieutenant McKenzie, coming down the road from the north. Besides a remarkable tale of adventures, McKenzie brought the astonishing news that Hebron had been evacuated by the enemy two or three days earlier. .... and there's a good deal more, though little of practical value to a Model T restorer. As a matter of interest, McKenzie was a New Zealander and he obviously enjoyed his reconnaissance role. I've done some minor improvements to my T including adding a starter and a solenoid, so the vehicle has been moved a couple or so years into the future, but generally the vehicle will be as it was in 1917. I'll keep you all up to date with the progress. Jack

Our gun welder was marked Sick in the roll book this morning - he's down with some girlish complaint, so we had to move on from the welding of the tailgate, to something we amateurs could handle. Decided on stripping the rear suspension (note, I didn't say the rear diff - because that's a task for our jack of all trades welder when he recovers). Most of the progress was simple and relatively fast - we've learnt a lot about these components from experiences with the front diff. However one or two of the wishbone arms gave us a few problems, which in one case was solved with brute force and a BFH. The second case was quite different and involved a seized bush. I think it was the last wishbone arm to be removed which proved stubborn and no amount of BFH work would persuade it to slide off the pivot pin. After much heating and pounding it was noticed that the pivot pin seemed to be coming out complete with the wishbone arm. As everyone knows, that can't happen unless the tip of the grub screw holding the pivot pin in place on the cradle, is sheared. Which is what it turned out to be. The grub screw was ineffective and from the look of the shear point, had been like that for so long that there was wear on the pivot pin where it sat inside the cradle (just to the left of the grub screw hole). In short, the pivot pin had seized inside the wishbone arm bush, sheared the grub screw and any subsequent pivot pin movement was then taken up, inside the cradle. We haven't removed the pivot pin from the bush yet, but as mentioned above, the wear between pivot pin and the cradle is very evident. I suppose that given the difficulty of getting lubricant into these pivot pins, both upper and lower, the seized bushing may not be all that uncommon. The end result of the day's work is the diff is now awaiting inspection - hopefully, all will be well and we can start cleaning it for eventual re-instalment.

We started the replacement of the tailgate area, by cutting out and replacing the various rusted sections in the donor panel. It took some time to fashion all the little bits, to conform with the intricate detail of the inside sheet pressings, but here's the result ... Then it was a matter of cutting the old and new panels to ensure an accurate fitting to the vehicle. Not an easy task, given the fact that it is a double skinned area. Anyway, we made the final cut and tacked it in. About this time, we ran out of gas for the welder and moved onto the engine bay which had previously been the subject of a few welds where the metal sides in particular, had torn - no doubt due to chassis flexing. The engine compartment has now been given a good coating of primer - this area of the vehicle is starting to be transformed and its final look is now more easily imagined. We are making progress !

ST, I would use you but you're such a girl about mechanical things and always seem so distant !

I think I might have mentioned previously, that there is/was a little bit of rust around sections of the tailgate (or where the tailgate might have been). We decided after looking at the donor vehicle again, that although it had its own rust issues, it was a better section and decided to cut the old one out. We spent the afternoon cutting out rust on the donated section and will finish that off next Wednesday. Maybe we'll also be able to tack the new piece in place as well, before there's an appeal against the light. In between doing that, we finished off the Model T door, welding on the bottom section and making the last fold which in due course, will be hidden by the interior trim. A beaut smell of burning jarrah, for a while there. and the 'seen' side, with lovely vertical and horizontal curves .... A bit of TLC in the shape of body filler where necessary and some paint and it should be ready to hinge.

Could well be, Chris - though I think this vehicle like many others here in West Australia, was a direct import from the UK stocks. I'll take more photos of the rear diff when I get to that job. Jack

Although we still have the rear tailgate to de-rust which won't be done till we can inspect another donor vehicle to see if it possesses better metal, we've started on sanding down the vehicle and the welded areas, with a 7" sander. It is transforming the look of the vehicle and identifying the depressions, most of which will need to be filled. Some can be panel beaten out but the majority are where double skins exist and that makes it pretty much impractical for metal repair - unless significant extra work is done. Progressed with the front diff - just a little bit. I found that once it was re-assembled and I tested the drive flange, I couldn't get the driving gear wheel to spin freely in either position of the selector rod. It turned out that I had placed the sliding gear in back to front and it wasn't able to disengage ! So it was off with the driving gear housing again and with some dexterity, we managed to turn the sliding gear around and refit everything. The internal circlip on the selector rod is a true mongrel to fit. It's OK to remove, but in a very tight space you need lots of light and three hands (which won't fit in the space available), to get it back on. Anyway, it was done and it now works the way it was designed. I did a little more fitting of wishbones and their spacer brackets, but found I was short of one important piece. I will clean that up and instal next time. So at the moment, it all looks like this now .... A little work was also done on the Model T Ford which we are building as a WW1 Light Car Patrol vehicle. I've got to build a LH door and while I've made the wooden frame, the skin has now to be attached. I rolled in the perimeter bead with a bead roller and today we cut the edges, to allow us to build in curves along the top and sides to conform to the wooden frame. So far it looks quite acceptable. Latch side .... ... and top

Did a little more work on the RH rear wheel arch, which filled up the gap left last week when we replaced the forward edge of the rear stowage bin ... so that's pretty much fixed now, but we still have a bit of rust to remove from the tailgate area, which I think, is the last of the corroded areas. It is all double skinned there and it would appear to be a common location for the rust worm. We have access to another body for donations and will check that area on the donor vehicle, to see if it is in better shape. If so, we'll cut it out and replace the original with the better bit. This donor vehicle also had what appeared to be a reasonable front diff assembly on it, so I disassembled it as far as I needed to, to get it into a car boot/trunk and took it to the workshop where it was pronounced better than the one which came out of 1824. This diff actually has ball bearings and they are massive balls as well ! I forgot to take a photo but they must be around the 1/2" - 5/8" mark, in diameter. I guess that would make it an early -ish diff ? I'm pretty sure the original diff on 1824 had roller bearings. We also noticed that from what we could see of the pinion bearing, although it was a roller bearing, it too appeared to be more than adequate for the task. So the rest of the day was spent in cleaning the cradle of the accumulated farm junk, grease and solid packed clay. I also replaced the swivel ball seals where it was necessary on the RH side and adjusted the shims to give adequate pre load to the seals. They now wipe very well and will I think, confine the oil to where it's designed to be. I'll go in again in a couple of days and finish off the cleaning/painting of the diff and cradle, so that's ready to replace in the chassis, when the time comes (at last).

John, Thanks for the second lot of useful information. I had a set of four boots from a batch that Archie Marshall had made up when he imported the Champs into West Australia, but obviously needed four more and have just received those from Champ Spares. I assume that these were produced by you. Had I known, I would have avoided the middle man ! Archie's boots actually have an embossed imprint of his name and brief details on the rubber boots, so it's plain to see where they originated. The ones I received from Champ Spares are without any such embellishment. I'm just going through some difficulties in changing my internet service provider at the moment, but will get back to you when I've worked through the difficulties - a couple of days at most. Jack

Although there's a little bit of tidying up yet to do, I think we can just about say that we have finished the rust removal process. Yesterday we cut out and replaced a section of the rear upper body section - and also removed the rusted out RH rear sheet metal between wheel arch and stowage bin - ....replacing it with shiny new stuff - We've got a little more to do in this area, more sheetmetal is being shaped to cover the outer skin of the body and the lip into the wheel arch, but that'll be welded in next Wednesday. We were also able to finish off the LH sill, which is now fully welded and ground to the point where we can add a little bit of smoothing body filler and "job's done". Once all that is finished we'll be able to lift the body shell off the chassis and finish all those hard to get at welds. There are still any number of small tears, bumps and gouges in the metal which will require work or as a last resort some body filler, but most of what now remains to be done on the body is cosmetic, though time consuming. The light at the end of the tunnel is glowing a little brighter !

Today's production output was a bit of a disappointment, mainly due to my inexperience with Champ suspensions. One of the team was absent on a run in his Chev Blitz, north to the Moora Show and another was called away in the morning to head south to Busselton to help a friend. Then it was just two of us left. While my colleague began to de-rust the body, I spent the day working on the Champ front suspension and thought I had it fairly well licked till I saw this - Yes, the steering arm fouls the shock absorber mount and no doubt the shock absorber as well, if it was in situ. Took me a while to work out what had gone wrong, but I realised after a thoughtful pause, that I was probably using rear suspension wishbones rather than front ones. Bugger. I would guess the only difference is likely to be the positioning of the shock absorber extension from the wishbone, in other words the shockie mount should be at the front rather than the rear. The problem is that these mounts are generally well rusted inside the wishbone and hard to shift without significant heat. While I have access to the EMERs and the article on Cradle Snatching (Champ World - Issue 13), none of these focuses on assembling a suspension from scratch. That'll do for an excuse - it must have been someone else's fault ! The only option was the disassemble what I had done, spend another day cleaning up some new (front) wishbone arms and then re-assemble next week. By that time the welder chap (Tony) will have returned in his Blitz from Moora and we can weld up the previously tacked LH sills on the body. Then will come the real test - can we still lift the body off the chassis ?

Finally finished one side of the sill panel and have tacked up the other, ready for a final assault soon. Our welder is off on safari next week, so it'll probably not be until Wednesday week, that we can finish off this area. Here's the RH side - ... and the tacked on/partly spot welded, LH side - There's been a lot of work effort expended on this body shell to date, but there's much yet to be done, as well. There is an area of rust under the RH rear wheel arch, where it forms a part of the storage bin, which needs to be cut out and a new panel welded in, together with the repair of many dings and the filling of unofficial holes. Much of the remaining work is difficult due to the location and the nature of the original construction, where many areas needing attention are double skinned or just plain unget-at-able. I have pretty much finished cleaning up all the missing parts from the front diff assembly. It took a lot of effort to extract the pins from the torsion bar adjusting forks, but some heat did the trick and they're now rotating very satisfactorily. When this photo was taken, I still had two lower wishbone arms to complete, but I put them in for comparison - and will add them to the part finished diff/cradle on Wednesday - Also about to receive my first (but probably not my last) consignment of parts from Champ Spares - so I'm looking forward to that.

Only two of us at roll call this morning. Of the other three, one was off on a round the world tour with the missus, another was in the eastern states buying yet another jeep and the third was entertaining a Japanese visitor. Anyway, we two did some very productive work, which included tack welding the first part of the side skins on both sides of the vehicle as well as fabricating and welding in, the two left and right hand lower front panels, which connect the body shell sides to the floor via a single 5/16th" bolt. This pic shows the first part of the skin tack welded in place. On both sides, we were able to cut off an intact section of the side panel from a donor vehicle, complete with the bead, which was then adapted to take the place of the original lower (rusty) section. The layers of paint on the donated pieces of the skin are significant and include thick black,thick orange and yellow, as well as the usual in service colours. The WD 40 you see on the upper side panels, was sprayed on in a successful attempt to loosen all the self tappers holding the Murphy fasteners to the body. Right side Left side Before these were tacked onto the vehicle, we fabricated and welded in the two front sections which attach the sides to the floor of the chassis, eg Right .... and left Perhaps it's time to compare this progress with a pic showing where we began .... After we'd done all that, we dismissed ourselves, secured the area and drove/rode home. Next week should see the above pieces welded in and the final stage of the sides with the flange under the vehicle, welded in place. Once that is all done there'll be a short lifting ceremony to see if the body shell actually comes off the chassis like it was designed to do - in case we have welded where we shouldn't have - and then we can perhaps start on the engine.

The sides of the body shell are quite complex pieces of artwork, especially when what you're left with to replicate, are more holes than metal. This pic shows the original bits cut away from the internal lower sill area of the shell. We managed to find some hat channel which had the right profile to use as the required strengthener at the bottom of the sill. Once that was cut and shaped to follow the slight inwards bend of the outer body near the front wheel arch, it was welded in place. This shot shows the same hat channel from inside the rear RH side .... Then it was onto forming the panels which at the rear, hide the two bolts used to secure the body shell to the floor of the chassis and at the front are slightly more complicated, but hide a single securing bolt. These panels (front and rear) would also serve to limit road water and/or dust penetration, as well as providing some aesthetics to the join between body shell and floor. We were able to finish the rear two panels and bolt them up to the floor, but time saw us only get a little into the fabrication of the front panels, before we had to pack up. The two rear sides ... and... Once the two front panels are completed next week, we should be able to move onto the outside skin of the body shell which has been prepped and is patiently awaiting our attention.

Now we start on the second part of the rust removal - around the sills. This section seems to often be a problem on Champs and is complicated by the framework, inside the sills. So the first job was to position the body on top of the chassis and ensure that it fitted. We then bolted it onto the chassis to get an accurate start point for welding and as a check of our previous work. Some of the holes didn't line up perfectly but a bit of tweaking fixed that. Now we were able to weld in the extra bits of the framework needed to replace that which had rusted out. You'll see part of that in this picture .... We've managed to save/recycle enough of this framework from another Champ, so we were able to weld it onto what was still intact, on the existing frame. Once the sill has been tacked into place we'll be able to remove the body shell and complete all the welding of both sills and framework. We still have to make up or find some hat channel to run fore and aft along the bottom of each sill and weld that to the framework to provide strength to the sill. We may be able to get all that done next week including the new sill, but in one day that might be a "bridge too far". The diff is now back in it's cradle and the new rubber boots installed. There is a master spline on the tracta joints and it doesn't look as if it will be too difficult to match up the splines, with the cradle on the bench. I'd imagine though, that trying to do that job with the cradle still on the vehicle, could be awkward. I understand from more experienced Champ owners, that it is a good idea to leave the boot clamps loose till the position of the vehicle, vis a vis the cradle and the swivel ball/tracta drive bits, is fixed.

Well, that was simple - thanks again John. The diff is now out .... ... and its been disassembled to the extent that we can verify, it's OK. There was a bit of wear mainly on the pinion, but it's quite acceptable for a front diff and reasonable, given its advanced (almost pensionable) years. So we began the re-assembling job and got as far as the inner boot stage before the day gave out. I'm using some swivel boots made by Archie Marshall (they have his name cast into them) which were "long term loaned" by a friend. I'll have to find more though - a job for later. The day also saw the welding of some additional strengtheners to the rear bumper area where the fuel tank straps are secured. The original welded brackets were too flimsy for the task and had been distorted, so we welded on some 3/16th" plate to adequately cope with a full load of 20 odd gallons I've also made up the new fuel tank straps, using the old (rear) ends, ie the threaded T pieces and the forward mounted clevis pins. Some 40mm strapping and the job's almost done. I mounted the tank and the engine end of the straps to measure the length and will now cut the strapping and spot weld the rear loop. There were a number of smaller holes in the bottom of the tank, mainly where the inner baffles were spot welded, but after a lot of effort went into cleaning up this area, we were able to solder up the holes, so all should be well. Obviously we won't be fully satisfied, till the tank has fuel in it but the one good thing about the Champ tank, is that it is easily removed. Next major job is the body shell sill area and this has now been cut where we will weld in the replacement panelling. This sill area has a very complex interior and will need some careful pondering to make it all work the way it was originally designed. No doubt it will consume a lot of time to duplicate the design work, so it's fortunate that it is mostly hidden from view. If our work is not quite the same as the original, it won't be glaringly obvious.

Thanks for the lead, John. We have removed the cap you mentioned , under which is the split rubber bush, but I didn't see any obvious sign that the diff could then be persuaded out. I assume from what you are saying that the diff carrier simply sits on the rubber bush and the cap holds it in place - makes sense. I'll have another look on Wednesday. What seems to be certain however is that the shaft is well located - it didn't appear at all concerned about the 4 pound hammering inflicted in ignorance ! Jack

Added a skin of "Proofkote" or body seal/deadener to the underneath and a couple of the bolt on brackets including the jacking points - not that I'd ever use these to lift the vehicle. Just couldn't bring myself to apply upwards force to the middle of the vehicle when it has two major (ie heavy) components, at the front and rear ends. No doubt it was well designed and capable but if I need to lift the vehicle (and I'm sure I will), I'll do it somewhere around the wheel area. We are now preparing to de-rust the body shell and have retrieved some sections of the side panels from the two available donor bodies. We'll use these to replace the lower rusted sill areas (particularly the swaged areas) and add straight sheetmetal to the replacement bits to complete the job. Hope to start that next week. Photos next week, too. This week though we put in a bit of work on the front diff - feeling our way through the dismantling process. The Tech manuals and the three part (Unit, Field, Base) repair sections aren't all that helpful in providing clues, as to which part gets removed, in which sequence and most importantly, how. Nevertheless, we persevered and removed most of it but remain stuck on how to drive out the lower inner wishbone shaft. It is a must to remove, as we can only access the diff itself after the shaft is out. We did a fair but of judicious pounding, but it shows no sign of yielding to superior force. At the end of the day the shaft, which does have significant rust on the visible areas, is still there. Does anyone know if it is a simple matter of driving it out, once the grub screw is removed ?

Very happy to report that a milestone has been reached - we have now finished the chassis. A couple of photos here of the underbody when we turned it over to weld up any unfinished areas left from the top welding. The grey etch paint shows most of the new steel work. From the front .... ...and from the rear ... Using a spirit level, we confirmed that there is a slight twist in the chassis of about 1/4" front to rear, but it's nothing to be concerned about. The underside of the chassis will now get "proofkoted" (bitumen paint) while it's upside down and then we can put this away for a time while we work on the body, which requires the usual attention around the sills both inside and outside. The fabrication of the internal welded sill attachments will prove interesting no doubt, but with the chassis finished, the major task is now behind us. It's all downhill from here. Took the opportunity to blow out the mud/dust in the propshaft tunnel and it was astonishing to see the amount of detritus the vehicle was carrying around with it. Although the propshaft is equipped with a slinger to aid in keeping the mud out, it clearly doesn't cope well. At least now with the tunnel more or less clean, we'll be starting afresh and significantly lighter. Looking for 24mpg and 60mph !

We finished off the rear on Wednesday, but it was slow going. Things were clearly going too well, for too long and we experienced a "one step forward and two back" moment. We had to undo some of the good work done the previous week. After welding in the three pieces of C channel, to make a secure towing point, no one thought to check laterally across the vehicle from right to left and when we did today, we found a significant sag had been welded into the work. After much heated discussion about how to fix the problem and the occasional thought about is it all worth the bother, we agreed on a plan which would see the weld between C channels and rear chassis members, cut. We could then put a porta power crossways onto the tops of the chassis rails at the rear. Pushing these out would lift the C channels sufficiently to then reweld the lot, minus the sag. And that's how it turned out. Fortunately ! This is a view of the now plated, C channels. We used a piece of sheet metal, which required four bends, all done on a vice using a couple of pieces of 3/8" angle iron between which was sandwiched the replacement panel. It was then bent using a large hammer and a spare piece of railway line to spread the impact. Thanks, Brian. To quote a well known phrase - we're not fancy, but we're cheap. Although the picture doesn't show it, there is now no sag - looking left to right across the vehicle rear shows a perfectly straight line. Good eh ? We've drilled the four holes for the pintle hook mounting, as well as the one large hole for the convoy (number plate) light - though it's a bit hard to see all that, in the pic. Thought I might include this picture which is an example (in a very small way) of the extent to which the designers went, to build a well engineered vehicle .... Although captive nuts are used extensively in many vehicles, these Champ 5/16" captive nuts, are (I am assuming) one of a kind. They are a brass design and would probably have been specially designed/manufactured to suit the Champ. No doubt the other vehicles in this family, used the same design. The only way these would fail would be if the steel cage rotted. We are now just about at the stage where we can overturn the chassis and repair any of the areas where the weld didn't penetrate from the top. Once that's done we'll proofkote the bottom and entice our painter to provide his contribution.

We were able to get the winch tray into place and welded up yesterday. After a bit of discussion, and reviewing what material we had available, we decided to fabricate the rear part of the tray, ie the pintle hook area, by welding three pieces of thickish C channel together and fixing that laterally between the two chassis members. Once that was done, we repaired a rust area in the tray and then manouevred it into place to marry up with the C channel. A little time spent on spot welding and the result was this - ...and... The rust replacement panel can be seen in this pic, just to the right front of the fuel tank sender hole. We went firm on the position of the pintle hook, drilled the four holes and welded captive nuts into the C channel. All we have to do now is to fabricate the sheet metal which forms the outer covering around the C channel. That shouldn't prove too difficult and will be done next week. Once that is done we'll be able to turn the chassis over and check all the welds, cover the bottom with bitumen paint and prepare for DBG painting. Another difference between 2A/4 and 5A motors is the thermostat housing.

Another week with not much done - we were mainly diverted onto other pressing tasks, but some good work was done in preparing the rear winch compartment for its "makeover". We managed to remove the old, rusty and mainly missing, compartment by drilling out the spot welds. The tray itself came out quite cleanly but as usual with the Champ, it is a very interesting design, which required much thought as to where to cut and what would be the effect of each cut. The rear end of the body has little apparent strength, despite housing the pintle hook, as the steel sheeting here is about 1mm thick. It does however have several layers of this sheeting spot welded together and some additional webbing behind the pintle hook attachment, so it clearly must be stronger than it looks ! You'll also see the "new" compartment waiting its employment, in this pic. If you thought that was the old one, no it isn't - that was much worse ! When we extracted the original winch compartment, there was a great deal of rust between it and the chassis rails. Most of it was easily brushed away, but from the look of it (and it's admittedly 60 years down the track), this area received little rust protection from the manufacturers and is only saved from being an area of concern, by the thickness of the chassis rails. I'd say that anyone who hasn't yet examined their rear ends (of the Champ), ought to do so, especially if you're towing anything. We've been talking about how to provide better strength to the pintle hook area and have decided we will weld a strong cross member between the rear ends of the right and left chassis rails. Then we can dress up the exterior so that the differences will all be internal. ... and now a shot of the now primed LH floor - This week's example in the series of differences between 2A/4 motors and the later 5A, is the Solex carburettor.

Another day - more rust holes and repairs ! This is the rear of the front LH wheel arch, which we noticed had a little bit of rust between the two skins. We cut out the affected bit on both sides and welded in replacement panels.... and ... Also found another spot which needed attention on the RH side panel, just to the rear of the wheel arch. That was easily fixed ... Then we had a really good look at the central rear rust hole(s) which for simplicity, I'll call the winch box. We have another two Champ bodies stored elsewhere, so it was decided that the rust in the winch box was so bad (see previous photos in this thread), it might just be that one of the other bodies could contribute a better and quicker replacement. And it was so ! Cutting the winch box out of the donor Champ's half body. Another complex task to free this up .... ... and the two winch boxes - the one we will use as a replacement is on top. It will require a fair amount of repair, but we figure it'll be a lot easier to do that than attempt to re-panel the old one in situ. We have all commented on the fact that there is not what we would call adequate metal in the pintle hook area to cater for the weight and stress of a trailer, but obviously it must be stronger than it looks. Lastly, another look at more changes that were made during service. In this case it's the starter motors and again we're comparing 2A/4 and 5A motors. The mounting flange holes are different as is the starter pinion. In the RH one, the whole shaft moves forward the engage the flywheel ring gear while in the LH model, only the teeth are propelled forward (no doubt with some kind of rod behind the teeth) into the flywheel ring ...