Doc

Indeed. But civilian pattern enclosed cab. Advert is from the June 17th 1919 edition (cover reproduced below). Would this be too early to be a refurbished ex. W^D vehicle?

13 minutes ago, Great War truck said:

Thanks. I thought i recognised them. Did the civilian Karriers still have the can holder?

 

That's a very good question and not one I was able to answer straight away. Then I remembered this advert from Commercial Motor:

So yes, seems like they may have done. 

Stay at home! Stay indoors!

It's January, so I've needed little encouragement to heed this advice. Although we now have a condensation-free shed roof, it's still far from warm. My office, on the other hand has a wood burner with a fire on the grate. 

So I've been studying Karrier lorry photographs and in particular petrol can carriers. 

Images 1-5 show carriers for three cans, differing in certain details, principally: height of the dividers, and latch bar construction. (1) uniquely shows a hinged latch bar locking over a circular pin. (2) and (4) show a bar twisted at either end articulated via a forged link, not unlike chain construction. (5) is attached via a staple and a T head is forged on the free end to close over a 2nd staple through which a padlock can be fitted.

(6) and (7) show carriers for a single can but also including a toolbox or locker. No doubt used to house a funnel and such items of stores (oil, grease, cotton waste etc) as could be drawn down.

(6) latch bar, though necessarily shorter, shares constructional details with (5)

(7) shows the locking end bent through 90 degrees such that the lock lays neatly against the carrier.

The variation is fascinating.

 I've been experimenting in the virtual world of 3D cad and have built the following two models:

Next step is to produce drawings and a cutting list and see if I can change the virtual into reality.

Doc

PS many thanks to Tim Gosling for sharing the photos from which these details were snipped.

10 minutes ago, Great War truck said:

That looks great. Which bits are you still on the lookout for?

You're very kind. 

Still looking for Luke and Spencer grinder, 110V Wolf drill and stand, 4-cylinder Austinlite generator. As illustrated earlier in this post. 

Also looking for a Leyland 36HP inlet manifold for the lorry.

Any leads greatly appreciated. 

Doc 

Remember when lock-downs were still a novelty? Well, back in March 2020 this rather delightful little beauty appeared on our favourite on-line auction site. In response to the "Make and Offer" option an offer was made, which was promptly refused. The drill was subsequently bought second bid. A forum stalwart kindly took delivery and when free movement was once again possible (which now seems a distant memory) it made its way up country to Oxfordshire. Finally, after the 2nd lock-down was over, we were able to collect it.

So we have a Silver Manufacturing Co. Advance No. 12 drill. A little smaller than the No. 24 as listed in the parts book, hence the oak spacer block, but maybe if we keep it warm and nurture it, it might grow.

In the real world, maybe one will turn up. But in the mean-time, this is a good substitute.

11 hours ago, Old Bill said:

 

Our Los Angeles Peerless radiator has another gill variant in that they are wrapped around the tube in a continuous spiral without being crinkled to bend them around. How was that done?

Hi. Are these fins copper? If so, perhaps they were wound over hard tubes from strip in the annealed state. 

Is the fin measurably thinner at the tip compared to the root, or did they start with trapezoid strip, as you would if coiling a rectangular section spring?

Similar heat exchanger tubing is still made though with aluminium fins.

Take a look online at profins.com

Not exactly what you're looking for but interesting read on a freezing cold morning. 

Andy

We joined Dave (S&F) on Boxing Day. No! Not in Kent, in shared experience. The infection rate in Suffolk is now lower than it was in London when London was in tier two so the only logical and responsible thing to do was to thrust Suffolk into tier four. Personally I think Matty Hancock was a bit slipshod colouring in his tier map.  When he shaded Essex and Norfolk he went over the lines and rather than rub it out and risk making a mess of it, we got it too. A bit more practice with the crayons when he was a lad and all this could have been avoided. 

Fortunately, I had the foresight to get some steel in stock before Christmas. So in the spare time between eating and drinking, I've made a start on the new skirt for the bulkhead. 

Trial fitting, loosely in position 

Bolted in position. Note the angle iron support has been trimmed down to allow clearance for  the wooden door pillars. 

Screws trimmed to length and a quick coat of primer to keep the rust out. 

Happy New Year. 

Doc

My 1920 Austin tractor is all single chamfer "small" Whitworth. 

Incidentally, I get my nuts and bolts from Trojan Special Fasteners in Birmingham. 

They'll make exactly what you want, but no good ordering ones and twos; I usually order in multiples of 10 feet as this is the standard length in which the hex bar is supplied. 

Hope this helps.

Andy

Martin,

Thanks for getting in touch. I hope I am doing right by the Karrier in your eyes. It's lovely to hear stories like this. Would you know if any photographs of the lorry in its working day might survive?

Regards, 

Andy (Doc)

I agree: measuring the thread form (55 degree or 60 degree) is a good start. 1" x 16tpi RH is British Standard conduit thread. Is this on a tubular component by chance?

 Incidentally there's several 16 tpi whitform threads used on my Karrier. I understand this was a War Office specification. 

5 hours ago, Chris Hall said:

It’s funny how we go around in circles, if they’d continued developing electric vehicles 100 years ago, imagine where we would be today! 

50 miles from home and waiting 3 hours for the battery to recharge in all likelihood!

So what make is the engine? If I missed it earlier in the blog, I apologise. As a recent convert to WW1 lorries I have to confess that I don't recognise it. Does look nice with separate cylinders. Not unlike an Overland car of the period.

Andy

As I sit in the living room in front of the fire, thoughts turn to the day's activities. 

The handbrake has been connected up. No surprises here. 

Next, onto the gear linkages. If you're paying attention you will recall that the gearbox cradle had previously been fitted incorrectly, resulting in the gearbox being too close to the engine. This having been remedied, it came as no surprise that some adjustments were necessary to get the gears to come right. 

Linkage parts ready to be fitted 

Links in place, waiting to be connected up 

2nd gear engaged 

Insufficient travel on the gear lever

Link adjusted

At this point I should say that I took photographs in each of 1st, 2nd and reverse, showing that all were properly in mesh but the photos of the gears are very dark and it would be rather repetitive so I've opted not to show them.

The same procedure was undertaken  for 3rd/4th.

Both links connected 

As a stop-gap I have one odd 5/8" Whitworth bolt fitted as that intended for the job is a shade oversize and needs a few thou turning off. Hopefully when I'm next in work I'll be able to spend some time on the lathe.

Next I turned my attention to the various adornments for the bulkhead.

A picture from 1977

If you zoom in on the above picture you can make out the ignition switch and the oil pressure tell-tale. 

Cutting the hole for the switch. The old curtain for catching the swarf would not look out of place in 1977!

Trial fitting of switch and tell-tale 

The switch actually belongs on the Leyland but was borrowed for use as a template. 

Correct switch will be fitted when I succeed in finding one.

11 hours ago, Scrunt & Farthing said:

I spent the day stripping almost identical rusted parts with the oxy-propane torch and dreaming of the day it will be in paint.

Looking forward to seeing an update in your little corner of this virtual world we inhabit. 

Andy

Latest update: as of next week, Suffolk will find itself in tier two whereas Bristol is destined to be in tier three. So I'm staying put. Which is not that much of an inconvenience, given the proximity of the shed to the house. 

I wasted an hour or so this morning on a round trip to Bury St Edmunds and the building society, which was shut. Google said they were open. The perfect opportunity to use my late friend Richard's saying: "Well, it says Nestles on buses but they don't go there!"

Back home and changed into shed clothes, with help from my brother Gerald we lifted the bulkhead up onto the chassis for a trial fit. It didn't fit. Fouled on the top of the steering column, so we lifted it off again. After a bit of attention with a file we had another go. Yes, you've guessed it... After dinner, a bit more filing and third time lucky. 

Some comments: the off side bonnet support was removed as I wasn't sure if it would fit around the steering box. No problems there, fortunately. The steering column was wrapped in brown paper as a precaution to save the paint. The bolts holding the bulkhead to the stiffeners and buttresses are 3/8" bsf coach bolts. These were made earlier in the week by cutting down and rethreading some 3/8" bsw ones we had in stock. The buttresses were only fitted after the bulkhead was in position.

Next on the list, and something I've been looking forward to: the hand brake and gear lever assembly.

Only loosely in position. Bolts through the side of the chassis but yet to wiggle the bolts through the top of the chassis and the buttress.

R, 1st and 2nd crank in place...

Followed by 3rd & 4th

and the retaining washer and greaser.

Lots more jobs I can be doing to keep me busy now; I'll keep y'all posted.

Doc

23 hours ago, alsfarms said:

Nice reporting, pictures and update....

Al

 Thanks Al. 

This blogging is a new departure for me. I started it as a bit of a lockdown project, mindful that many people were not able to get on with their own projects. I'm actually quite enjoying it. 

Andy

Thanks for the reminder. Yes I think it could be made to fit with a little modification. 

Let's make arrangements via PM. 

Hope to bring photos of the oiler in place, atop the governor housing, back to the thread in due course. 

Andy

Having briefly subverted the thread with talk of roofing techniques and crane envy (which is perfectly fine with me by the way) it's time for another update on the Karrier. 

I've marked out and drilled the vertical portions of the rear bonnet support. Whoever produced these new castings did a good job; on the near side one the part number has been reproduced. 

Lots of careful measuring before committing to the position of these parts on the bulkhead.  

I'm hoping for a trial fitting of the bulkhead on the chassis next weekend. It wasn't quite in the right place when I took it off so it could be fun and games. Anticipating this, next on the agenda was to refit the manifold and exhaust pipe. 

Gaskets in place prior to trial fitment. Turned out to be a bit of a fiddle. Ended up removing both studs from number 2 flange and one from number 3. Once the manifold was drawing up squarely I was able to wind the offending studs in with lock nuts.

Earlier in this story I mentioned that the gearbox was tight on the input shaft which I put down to the oil seal gland having dried out. Well, this afternoon I decided to investigate. As luck would have it, the C spanner I had laser cut for the clutch also fits the gland nut so after removing the locking tab I was able to undo the gland. A generous squirt of WD40 was all that was required; the gearbox now turns freely. I have no justifiable reason why it has taken me so long to get round to doing this but it's another job crossed off the list. 

Not much Karrier progress of late despite my being in East Anglia; let me explain. 

The shed where the lorry lives is famous, or should I say infamous, in our corner of Suffolk on account of its roof. Clad with a single skin of corrugated steel, whenever there's a change of temperature condensation forms and drips from the purlins. Some days it can be so wet you need your hat and coat inside. Well, all that is a thing of the past. 

One benefit of not being able to go anywhere is that we've had time to get all sorts of jobs done including re-sheeting the shed roof with rather nice insulated panels.

Now that job is out of the way, I was determined that the weekend would not pass without anything being done on the Karrier. There's so many tasks that cannot be completed until the bulkhead is fitted, so I have turned my attention back in that direction. New aluminium bonnet supports had been copy cast by a previous owner. Today I measured up and drilled the fixing holes in the top section before fettling and polishing. 

A small amount of progress, true, but progress all the same. 

Looking rather enviously at your Whittle belt... nice!

I believe one definition of madness is repeating an action expecting a different result. 

So I'm working from home again, which is not all bad; it means I can sneak into the workshop for 10 minutes while it's still daylight. 

I had planned to take the rather beautiful replica license plate to work, to mill the edges square. That's now out of the question for the foreseeable future. We have some left over brass rally plaques with self adhesive backing, so I stuck one of these onto the front of the plate, taking care to align it with the etched edges, and used it as a filing guide. Repeated this for the other two edges before drilling out the screw holes. 13/64", giving clearance on the 2BA screws. I put a set in the plate using the fly press so it would conform to the curvature of the torque tube.  

Screw holes in the torque tube were cleaned out with a 2BA tap and the plate screwed into place. 

OK, back to work now before the stealth keystroke monitor on my work laptop logs that I've been away. 

This is the modern world...

So... age and identity. Chassis looks to be a K type from the early '20s. Key give-away from my perspective is that the cradle for the gearbox is riveted in place rather than suspended from hangers as on the WDS. Also the manifold bears a Karrier part number so the chassis had their own engine rather than the Tylor JB4. 

If you take a look on the website of Museum of Transport, Greater Manchester, they have a Karrier K5 recovery vehicle of 1926. Chassis Number is 5608, Engine Number 740.

When I visited them they were extremely helpful and accommodating, allowing me to go under and over, in and out, measuring things and taking photographs. I'll share some of these pictures in due course (they're not currently to hand).

I note that the chassis you have found bears the number 5053. Geoff Lumb asserts that K types started from #5000, so it seems you've found a comparatively early one. 

The engine, if you find it, may look like this:

Regards and "happy hunting"

Andy (Doc)

Who would have thought that tiny little plate would have survived. Well done recovering it. 

I might be able to shed some light on model and Year. Please be patient; my paperwork is in Bristol but I'm... not in Bristol. 

Looking forward to seeing what else your metal detector turns up. 

Andy

Now to the other end.

The peg that keeps the ball joint cup pre-load spring cap from rotating was damaged. If this part is not prevented from rotating, the slot may not line up, preventing the split pin from being fitted. 

The remains of the old peg was drilled out and the hole tapped 1/4" bsf. 

A bolt was fitted and the end hacksawed off before being filed to fit the slot in the track rod end. 

Reassembly will have to wait; the ball of this joint has a piece broken out of the side which will require some attention before I can progress any further.

Some photographs from earlier in the year that didn't quite make the cut:

One original though slightly moth-eaten spring. Locates the large grease-retaining washers on the steering ball joints.

A batch of replacements courtesy of Flexo Springs of Kingswood. 

Back to this weekend:

On disassembly one of the threads "picked up". 1.5/8" x 16tpi whitform-another oddity. Managed to find a die on our favourite online auction site.

Success.

Ball joint components layed out.

Ball,  cup and pre-load spring in place.

Plenty of lube

On with the cap.

Followed by the split pin

After a lot of fiddling managed to get the pin in. That's one end done. More on the other end later.