Cheshire Steve

That would tie in with him being in 168 MU at Heliopolis from July 1944 to Jan 1946 (though with 3 months out in Athens with 372 RSU in Jan - Mar 45). Before the formation of 168MU Helipolis had been the home for the BARU and while figuring out what this was (see separate thread) I have found evidence that it was a main hub for aircraft, damaged airframes being shipped there from RSUs, old planes being flown there to be retired (which could explain the Blenheims). Probably acted as base servicing, repair and overhaul and reallocation too. Is this a Blenheim? This would have been in 1942/43 - RSU recovery in progress (I always found it amazing that a small bunch of people in desert heat - admittedly with a Coles crane - could strip out engines, remove wings, tail, and recover entire aircraft - even larger aircraft like dakotas and bombers). Steve

Does that help date the photo? Looks like 99 on the side of the nearest one. If I can get a date I should be able to narrow down where it was, as have my father's diary of his postings. Steve

Thanks for the info - I was at RAE 84-87. Wish I had paid more attention to all the wonderful aircraft still there then - main involvement I had was related to the Comet. I guess Dakotas were made in such huge numbers that its hard to keep track of them, but I would be very interested if there is any history of a Dakota which was US, crashed in the Western Desert in WW2, recovered by an RSU and as the Americans had already written it off it was rebuild as the personal transport for the local RAF big wig at the time. I have photos of it polished til you can see your face in it, probably taken at Heliopolis, but you can't see the designation.

I think the acronym B.A.R.U. has a third interpretation - BOAC Aircraft Repair Unit. I have found it called that at this link which says it not only handled servicing of aircraft but also their reallocation between units (and from other sources also the retirement of aircraft and had a major scrapyard too) : http://www.adf-serials.com.au/bombay.htm I have also found some detailed BOAC records, that record the creations of a British Airways Repair Unit in Cairo in August 1941, which is strange as minuted in Jan 1941 that BOAC must continue to call themselves BOAC and not British Airways. BOAC seems to have also taken over the ATA, so maybe BARU was also a main transport hub for ferried aircraft. https://www.ab-ix.co.uk/pdfs/AMIL-BOAC-Gen-reports-services.pdf The more I look at the Operational Records of 58RSU the more planes I see transported to B.A.R.U. mainly by road., and all types too. In the attached extract from the Operations Records, Harvard EX129, Tomahawk AK351, Tomahawk AN467, and Kittyhawk ET532. 4 planes in 4 days. It seems to have a pretty central role, handling and servicing huge numbers of aircraft but can't find much info about it at all. Maybe I am still using the wrong search terms.

Thanks for that link - its the sort of information I was looking for but unable to find. From that I suspect the B.A.R.U. that is referred to is actually the British Airways Repair Unit at Heliopolis or Almaza (which are, as far as I can tell, the same place) - whereas I thought that interpretation of BARU must be a mistake. It still seems rather odd, British Airways Ltd was merged into BOAC in 1940. Civil aviation no doubt came under government control during the war, so were they deploying the in-house civilian expertise of the former British Airways as a Middle East base repair unit? It seems from your link that No 1 BARU became 168MU in 1/3/1944, and No 2 BARU became a BOAC unit at the same time - so maybe that does suggest a mix of military and civilians, later split into military and civilian outfits. I have found a reference to an aircraft scrapyard at Heliopolis, so maybe it was the BARU that ultimately decided what could be saved from a crashed aircraft (or maybe just airframe) and disposed of the rest. Steve

Looking through records of repair and salvage unit operating in the desert in 1943, I often see references to aircraft being delivered by land to B.A.R.U. - which I think is Base Aircraft Repair Unit. So these are planes that the RSU can't repair, as they fly out repaired planes. What I have failed to find is where the B.A.R.U. was located, and whether all planes that were scrap would be sent there as well as repairable ones, possibly for parts recovery. The RSU would change engines, but maybe they weren't able to handle airframe damage? Anyone come across details of the B.A.R.U. operations? Steve

Discontinued about 1943 tied in better with my father's photos - whereas discontinued in 1945 seemed unlikely. In my dad's stuff there are probably books on the Desert War so might look in there and see if we can refine the date.

Seems likely this is Ludion, at least it matches the attached photo in terms of conning tower and location of nameplate, and I can find no other photos of this class that have that conning tower. Earlier photos that claim to be Ludion look different, and the decks seem the same height - so it could be that they modified her along the way. However they might have modified more than one in the same way when they adapted them for harbour patrol, but those with longer names had the nameplate on the side of the conning tower. Hard to be sure. Steve

Looking at photos it seems the three rows of vent holes in the conning tower about the level of the foredeck are unusual - or rather the difference in height between the foredeck and aft-deck is unusual - so might be able to identify her from that.

Yes. that must be the type - in which case those frames for the torpedos are actually Drzeweicki drop collars. Wikipedia says the three of them that were made in Cherbourg served in the channel, the rest in the Med - so as it was in Dunkirk harbour it should be one of those 3 : Naiade, Lynx, or Protee. They were used as harbour defence boats - so it might be possible to find out which one was allocated to Dunkirk harbour. I wonder if they have any distinguishing differences, as I can't see the name or number in the picture.

I have been clearing out some family stuff and found a book of postcards from Dunkirk about WW1 - definitely 1911 or later as one postcard features a statue erected in 1911. Among them is a picture of a French submarine locked into the harbour, and I have been wondering if it is possible to identify which one it is. Among the obvious characteristics are two torpedo cradles on the deck. I wonder if it is Argonaute, which was built in 1905 and commissioned in 1911, or maybe Aigrette - but so far haven't seen a picture that matches. It seems of quite modest size by submarine standards - there is a small penant sticking out of the water on the extreme left of the photo that I assume marks the bow. It seems low in the water, as I thought in harbour the bow would be clear. I was quite surprised to find the French had a lot of submarines - its not an area I have ever looked into before. Hopefully someone here has some info. Thanks, Steve

You realise you have posted this in the Naval section of the forum? My father was out there in 42/43 in 58RSU and I have had a look through his photos and can't see this sort of number plate with dual language. Maybe it was a local thing - perhaps for vehicles operating in Alexandria.

Thanks, just me being dumb. When I looked at the photo I took of the dakota I knew something was missing - but its the lack of squadron codes. Most of the BBMF have the large letters of squadron codes, presumably from their original service, but not this one - which makes it look odd. Fabulous aircraft though.

Oops, yes, looks like it was the Germans - though the City Of Lincoln Lancaster has a load of letters that I might have though was RAF id.

Wow didn't even see the reg it is so small. So where did I get this crazy idea that WW2 planes had to have bigger reg letters you could easily see?. Maybe the huge letters on the side are part of a group ID. I will try and find an example ...OK have found a photo - can see the large letter is on its own, the reg is smaller but still written large. I think it was the germans who had their ID written large - maybe that is where my confusion comes from.

They say there are no dumb questions, but I may get a prize here. At the Smallwood Vintage Rally 2 weeks ago we have a fly-by by an RAF marked Dakota. It was fabulous and the sound took me back 30 years - but the photo I took leads to my potentially dumb question - where is the registration number that would surely have been written large on the fuselage - I can't even see it written anywhere? Whick Dakota is it? How can I tell?

Am now the proud owner of a WW2 ALCO Featherweight engine (a J.A.P. model 3 engine with ALCO cast into the timing cover). Its not a generator engine, so probably drove a fuel pump or something similar that used belt drive. Steve

Does anyone know about the "Lyon Lights" set up as beach defence lights in WW2 near to pillboxes, so that if a landing takes place you can light up the beach? I have read of them being installed in Singapore, Hong Kong, and Britain. They were self-powered lights, engine, dynamo, and 20 to 24inch spotlight. Everything points to this being a product of Arthur Lyon and Co., but I can't find any evidence to prove this. One account said the engine was a Lister, another said Briggs & Stratton. Reason is I have just created a Wikipedia page for Arthur Lyon & Co as have seen people confuse the Lyon ALCO with American Locomotive Company, furthermore I have seen people confuse the company that made the Norman engines that ALCO sometimes used with Norman motocycles - who were a different firm. So I created a Norman Engineering page too. If anyone has anything to add or correct to the Wikipedia entries (or a photo they took of some ALCO kit) then let me know. I would be especially interested to learn about the Lyon and Wrench WW1 searchlight units powered by Coventry Simplex engines. Steve

Glenway has been withdrawn from the sale. I hope that is a good sign, but don't have any details. Steve

I suppose you may argue that the Glenway sailing barge was never military, but due to its role in rescuing 190 members of 27th Field Regiment of the Royal Artillery from the beach at Dunkirk, I thought I should draw your attention to the fact that she is up for auction with no reserve on 7th October, and given the effort and funds required to save her this could be the end of a distinguished member of the Dunkirk little ships, that has somehow survived for 105 years. According to the little ships association, she was towed out to Dunkirk by the tug Crested Cock, loaded with food, medical supplies and munitions. She was later spotted by Bruno de Hamel on an anti-submarine patrol. She was loaded with 190 troops unable to get the engine going to get her off the shore. As a yachtsman he took control of her and got sail on and sailed her back to England, taking 16 hours and losing 20 men to their wounds on the way. She was picked up outside Dover and towed in by a tug. More of her story here : http://www.adls.org.uk/t1/content/glenway So if the Royal Artillery Association are looking for a worthwhile project .. it might be their turn to rescue Glenway. Lot 36 : http://www.blackwater-marina.co.uk/auction_list.htm

Been a long time since I started this thread, but my knowledge has advanced much about the 1956-1958 air drop trials. Perhaps MKAY, you can elighten me about what Old Sarum (AATDC) did and what Boscombe did. I suspect that Boscombe, being a civilian (Ministry of Supply) site back then, did not have any military vehicles assigned to them, but that all vehicles involved in the drops were likely on AATDC books. I have also been wondering if MSPs were loaded at AATDC, shipped to Boscombe and placed in the Beverley and then flown back to Old Sarum as a drop zone. Steve

Thanks, I remember him telling me the military shipped an ME109 all the way back to Farnborough because it was a new version. Could be that one then ..

To mark the passing of my father 1232098 LAC Arthur Richardson, yesterday, I thought I would post some more pictures from North Africa that he took c1942/43 when he was in 58 RSU and also provide you with the aircraftman's version of the 10 commandments which he copied into his journal in September 1943, as follows : 1. Thou shalt not turn propellor without checking igniton switches. 2. Thou shalt not warm up engines without wheel blocks. 3. Thou shalt not leave aircraft without checking parking brake. 4. Thou shalt not leave aircraft without locking controls. 5. Thou shalt not start engines without seeing prop is clear. 6. Thou shalt not taxi airplane if not qualified to do so. 7. Thou shalt not clean aircraft inside hangers with flammable fluids. 8. Thou shalt not leave cowls where they will be blown away by other aircraft taxiing or warming up. 9. Thou shalt not leave a job until a final check indicates that it is finished. 10. Thou shalt not use jacks without being sure of capacity. And thats about as religious as my father ever got. I assume the aviation experts among you will be able to tell me the types of plane pictured. If anyone's interested one of the other posters on here has kindly shared with me some of the logs of 58RSU which he studied at the National Archive. These have accounts of planes crashed and recovered by the RSU from June to Nov 1943 (all too often during training rather than enemy action), and details of vehicles moving in and out of the unit each month too. Could be useful if there is something specific you want to research. If the national archive was a bit nearer I would go there myself to get hold of the info for July 1942 until May 43 and see if I could tie them in with the photos - as my father was attached to 74 squadron in Nicosia from June to Nov 1943.

Very late reply from me - I can't say for certain that the photos are of hurricanes being re-skinned in the open, but when going through his photos, when he came to these my father told me they had to re-cover the newly delivered hurricanes because the fabric had been affected by the tropical delivery route they were using. It could be that these photos reminded him of that activity, but at the time I understood that these photos were the record of this activity being carried out. I am afraid its too late to ask him now, his dementia has gone too far. Courtesy of JamesR who posted earlier I now have a big chunk of 58 RSU logs, and it gives some interesting insights into what they were up to day by day. Planes are individually identified with such details as crashed by nn OTU, recovered, locations, sent to MU etc. It could add some interesting details into the history of some planes (I wonder if any still exist from then). Also there are vehicle transfers summarised at the end of each month, which gives the type and WD vehicle numbers.

I had never heard of that before, and having looked at it it seems interesting but the structure for the air forces for example seems to only include squadrons, not air sea rescue, not RSUs, not MUs. The search engine only works if you are registered for it, so guess I will have to do that (this probably means that external search engines like Google are unable to locate information within it). I have quite a lot of info on various family members in WW1 and hopefully they will fit into the structure, so will have a look next time we have a rainy day. Steve